Solved Need some assistance

Lou · Mar 4, 2024

My WIN11 desktop continues to freeze up...

These freeze up are random--when using a browser, machine idling, using installed APPS....

It will run faultless for a long period of time then simply freeze---no keyboard no mouse, perfect monitors resulting in a hard re-set to get the machine to re-boot. This has been going on for approx 1 month

I’ve done a BUNCH of things and have run out of ideas…Is there something I’ve missed, is there a hardware issue I’ve yet to uncover…I’m a bit confused and need some informed guidance.

I’ve included a LOG COLLECTOR zip file

What I've done-

DISM RESTOREHEALTH

SCF /scannow

CHKSDK c: /f/r

WIN11 MEMORY DIAG TEST--NO issue notes

CPU-Z CPU benchmark and stress test--NO issues found

operating temperatures of components are all below 100F (SPECCY)

CLEAN install of NVIDIA video card driver-MGF driver NOT DELL

Clean install of Realteck Audio Driver--DELL DRIVER

ADJUSTED VM to custom size--INITIAL from 16 to 1800MB, Max is 4864 (WIN recommendation)

Stopped auto Hardware Acceleration via video card controller

RESET WINSOCK (don't ask)

insured all DELL updates are in place---BIOS, drivers (except as noted above)

Did a REPAIR Install of WIN11 OS--in-place Upgrade per instruction on this forum

replaced the POWER SUPPLY with an identical, good, unit--NO change

re-seated all boards inside the PC, insured it was clean

disabled all MS DEFENDER as a test---NO affect---re-enabled

changed BROWSER from Firefox to EDGE--no change

Lou · Mar 4, 2024

PS- forgot to mention---
regarding the KILLER Preformance Suite on my machine--
I've disabled the following SERVICES
Killer Analytics Service
Killer Dynamic Bandwidth Management
Killer Network Service
Killer Smart AP Selection Service

thecaretaker · Mar 4, 2024

What RAM do you have?
Have you run Memtest?
Do you have the latest BIOS installed?

I had this problem and it was a RAM issue (Memtest wouldn't run). But updating the BIOS to the latest version it fixed for me. Previous BIOS versions wasn't reading the RAM info correctly and wasn't configuring it properly.

I'm no expert. I'm sure others more knowledgeable than me will be able to offer you better advice. But your RAM details were missing from your post and you didn't mention if you had tried checking it. But your symptoms were the same as mine when I first had this PC built.

EDIT: I also had to run it with just 2 sticks of RAM. It didn't like 4. So I took the 4 x 16gb back to the shop and took 2 x 32gb and it worked fine.

Lou · Mar 4, 2024

I have SAMSUNG RAM (DDR4-3200)--(2) 16GB both have the same MFG build date-- week 43 Yr 21
I also have the latest DELL BIOS installed
I did not do the Memtest....Only the WINDOWS memory test

Flashorn · Mar 4, 2024

Lou said:
I have SAMSUNG RAM (DDR4-3200)--(2) 16GB both have the same MFG build date-- week 43 Yr 21
I also have the latest DELL BIOS installed
I did not do the Memtest....Only the WINDOWS memory test

No OC ?
Heat stable : SSD , GPU , CPU?

Free Download HWiNFO Sofware | Installer & Portable for Windows, DOS

Start to analyze your hardware right now! HWiNFO has available as an Installer and Portable version for Windows (32/64-bit) and Portable version for DOS.

www.hwinfo.com

You ran W11 memtest now try memtest64 to see if it will run

TechPowerUp

MemTest64 is a free system memory stability and error detection software for all Intel and AMD processors. It runs on 64 bit Windows without installation.

www.techpowerup.com

Lou · Mar 4, 2024

Just ran the MEMtest64---NO errors found
terminated test after 3-loop---CPU temp was rising to 160F---"normal" is 97F
Yes--component temps are stable and never exceed 100F --I've checked immediately after a hard re-set after a freeze event
What is OC....
Other Cooling????
If YES please see My Computer--I've improved the OE cooling hardware

Flashorn · Mar 4, 2024

Lou said:
What is OC....

Sorry, overclocking either CPU or GPU?
Which make of SSD is installed?
Have you run test on them for faults?
Does the Dell app not have diagnostic software?
How hard is the CPU hit when the freeze happens?
Does it go to it's turbo limit of 4.8 , 4.9?
run this app and minimize it while you're on the PC.
It will show current , minimum and maximum heat per core:

Core Temp

Did you install the latest update for Windows? I mean the preview one
KB5034848 which should not be installed.

That Dell came out in 2020. Is this when you bought it?
If so, then, it might need a repaste of the CPU or have you done this
recently?

Lou · Mar 4, 2024

THANKS for your assistnce here---
I'll get back to you in the morning with answers....got to get the kiddies into bed---it's late!

Scott · Mar 4, 2024

Flashorn said:
I mean the preview one KB5034848 which should not be installed.

May I ask why not?

Lou · Mar 4, 2024

OK- all set---I can "play " again
NO overclocking on the CPU or GPU-that's a bit above my pay-grade
I do not use the on board GPU---everything is "set"to use the NVIDIA video card
The SSD is as follows-- BC711 NVMe SK hynix 512GB
NO faults found in the SSD using the HD Tune app
Yes there is a DELL app for diagnostics--no hardware issues are ever found (DELL Support Assist app)
how would I determine how "hard is the CPU hit" when the freeze happens????. Temperature check on re-boot shows normal (under 100F)
I've got the CORE TEMP app--FWIW-it mimics the results shown in the SPECCY app
YES I installed the KB5034848 update back on the first of the month (oops) ---FWIW--the freeze issues pre-date that install
My desktop was operational on 1/22/2022---I cleaned and repasted the CPU when I installed the new cooler back in FEB of 2022
FWIW- I've a 25 year old AUDI in my garage that uses a thermal paste on several ignition parts in the engine compartment---I JUST cleaned and repasted them but noted that the original paste was still creamy and very much intact....

thecaretaker · Mar 5, 2024

Lou said:
My desktop was operational on 1/22/2022---I cleaned and repasted the CPU when I installed the new cooler back in FEB of 2022

So your desktop was working in January and you started having issues when you repasted the CPU when you replaced the cooler in February?

Try this. Run both CPU-Z and Coretemp together. Use the bench test to stress your CPU for at least 5 minutes observing the temperatures in Coretemp. If the temperature rises above tjmax, stop the stress test immediately. You'll now know what the issue is. If you are able to get to 5 minutes without the CPU throttling back too much (it will throttle back towards the end of the test), then heat isn't the issue. You can see if your CPU is being throttled on the first tab of CPU-Z.

TM21 · Mar 5, 2024

So you've done all the High Tech stuff, now how about the most basic thing of all.... Replace the CMOS battery!
Don't ask why, but a low CMOS battery can cause a PC to do the weirdest things! *
* If checked with a Digital Volt Meter, a CMOS battery should read at the very least 3.0 vdc. Below that, it should be replaced.

Any PC that came into my shop, that was over two years old, got a brand new CR-2032 battery, just as a matter of course.
I bought them by the dozen, back then. Even being retired, I change the CMOS battery in my own Desktop PC's once a year.
I won't even test RAM till I've taken it out and buffed up the gold edge connectors and reseated it. That can eliminate a myriad assortment of problems, to include BSOD's, and Freeze ups. And, takes up a lot less shop time than running Memtest.
And if the ram is dirty, I just wash it!

Good Luck Mate!
TM

Lou · Mar 5, 2024

"So your desktop was working in January and you started having issues when you repasted the CPU when you replaced the cooler in February?"
No- the machine was running perfectly up to a month ago..the change in the cooling rig happened during the second week of ownership over 2-years ago..

Regarding the use of CPU-z...I had earlier ran the stress test and found no issues.. I don't recall how long I ran it but I stopped the test when I saw the CPU temp above 160F. I was concerned with damaging things.... I'm very concerned about running that test for 5-minutes. Tj for my CPU is 212F

CMOS battery--Son-of-a-gun ....didn't think of that one
I've a nice FLUKE VOM and will check it now and report back..

THANKS folks for your time and advice

Lou · Mar 5, 2024

The CMOS battery measures 2.987V
I'll run out and get a replacement

Lou · Mar 5, 2024

OK- my machine just froze-up AGAIN
I did a hard re-set and ran the CPU-z STRESS TEST for 5 minutes--NO issues...
Here's a screen shot of the test at the 5-min mark

Flashorn · Mar 5, 2024

Lou said:
OK- my machine just froze-up AGAIN
I did a hard re-set and ran the CPU-z STRESS TEST for 5 minutes--NO issues...
Here's a screen shot of the test at the 5-min mark

The temps are well inside it's limits.
can you try to install the toolkit for the SK Hynix SSD and see if it sees
anything out of the ordinary?

Download – SK hynix SSD

ssd.skhynix.com

This one: Drive Manager: Easy Kit (64 bit) C2.7.1

Power supply good ?

Kees · Mar 5, 2024

A few days ago I had such a problem as well, that my computer (see my specs) was freezing regularly, without any real reason why. It did that in my browser, in File Explorer, VirtualBox testenvironment and many more programs. Restarting often was not possible, I had to touch the reset button on the panel of the PC. And it seemed to become more serious by days, eventually resulting in a totally unusable computer.

The first thing I did was testing the memory by a selfstarting USB-key with MemTest86. No problems detected.

Because I had read some reports about one of the last updates slowing down the system (in particular the File Explorer), I tried to restore an older image of the system drive, from about one month ago. I do such saving and restoring always with Clonezilla, which is situated on a selfstarting USB-key with Linux driver, totally offline, nothing to do with the Windows system on the system drive.

For some reason the restore did about the same as in the (normal) Windows environment: at a certain point (let's say 21%) it stopped or delayed counting up the Mbytes that were ready or did that very slow (where normally it goes steady on and on). When I would do the same restore again, it would stop or delay about the same percentage. Conclusion: the SSD system drive has bad sectors, which for some reason are not automatically replaced by good ones by the build in managing system in the SSD (I think it would normally function like that).

Because my son had told quite recently, he had similar problems (on an identical system, same make, same components) and he had repaired it by installing Windows 11 again (he too thought the updates were to blame), I tried that first, but already decided that I would replace the SSD-drive anyway. So I ordered another M.2 SSD (of another make).

In the meantime I reinstalled Windows completely, after deleting all partitions from that drive, using AOMEI on a Hirens Boot USB-key. Reinstalled Windows from a fresh downloaded Windows 11 23H2 USB, made by the Windows 11 Media Creation Tool (on another computer). Installation was done very well and rather fast.

Result: problem gone. Did partitioning as the drive was partitioned before, restored the most recent image. No problem anymore. I was very happy with that, because I did not need to reinstall all software and redo all settings that I changed (I have done many tweaks through registry changes, to be found here in the tutorials). Appearently the new windows installation had moved the system to another physical place on the SSD, thus 'repairing' the failure. That's what i suppose has happened, never can be sure about that, of course.

But I did not trust the SSD anymore, which was only one year old, so my decision to replace it, was there to stay.

One day later the new SSD arrived, I installed that, installed Windows 11 again from the Win11 USB, did the partitioning, restored the most recent image and everything was functioning very well. The new SSD had better specs than the old one, so the system is somewhat faster too. Since I changed the SSD and reinstalled the system etc., four days have been passing now without any problems. So I suppose the fault has been cured by replacing that SSD!

So maybe your problem is completely different from mine, but it could be caused by a 'hard disk' failure as well. That's why I mention it here.

The old SSD was of the make 'Kingston' of which @TechnoMage2021 has written some negative things, appearantly rightfully so. Was the first and the last SSD of that make I will buy...

Lou · Mar 5, 2024

Well this is interesting---
I tried to use the Drive Manager: Easy Kit (64 bit) C2.7.1 and got the following---

Is this an indication of an issue with my SSD????
PS- my Power Supply is a NEW OE replacement from DELL

KEES-
THANKS for that extensive write-up

Lou · Mar 5, 2024

FWIW-
I tried to roll back my BIOS update and found that DELL plays some games here----
I did a DL for the older version of my firmware off the DELL site and when finished I still have the latest version 2.17.0 verses the 2.16.0 I was trying to install.. Dell will not allow rollback if, in their words, there are security issues involved......very interesting

Spunk · Mar 5, 2024

Lou said:
the change in the cooling rig happened during the second week of ownership over 2-years ago..

Why would you not return your computer to place of purchase or Dell when this first started happening when it was under warranty?
Have you tried a Clean Boot if this works, you can leave it this way, or you can enable one Startup or Service item at a time until the freezing returns. Then you will know the culprit.

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