Slow Computer

Yes, me again from several months ago. So i did not change to W10, i stayed with W11 Pro. Now i need to know the wisdom of installing one of the minimized installations i see cited on YouTube : Linus Tech Tips, Chris Titus Tech Tips, Memory's Tech Tips, and i do NOT have the knowledge to judge if this is wise, but the people showing this seem credible.

I do not use my computer for gaming; strictly for business and research. Not to say i have anything against gaming, i just do not have the time and i have found games to be rather addictive for me in the past.

In December 2022 i bought a new computer from Dell. For reference, as full of a description as i know how to provide herefollows:

Device name Blahblahblah
Processor Intel(R) Xeon(R) W-1370P @ 3.60GHz 3.60 GHz
Installed RAM 16.0 GB (15.7 GB usable)
Device ID 3B3F6463-0503-4BE7-98A5-45740BA2A2F5
Product ID 00391-50000-00000-AAOEM
System type 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
Pen and touch No pen or touch input is available for this display

Edition Windows 11 Pro for Workstations
Version 23H2
Installed on ‎12/‎28/‎2022
OS build 22631.4169
Experience Windows Feature Experience Pack 1000.22700.1034.0



Dell Precision 3650
11th Generation Intel Xeon W-1 370P, 16 MB Cache, 8 Core, 3.6 GHz to 5.2 GHz, 125W TDP
16GB (2x8GB) DDR4 UDIMM non-EC C Memory (Note-Presently awaiting for upgrade to 64GB)
Windows 11 Pro for Workstation s (6 cores plus)
Intel Wi-Fi 6 AX210 802.11ax D ual Band (2x2) Wireless Module + Bluetooth 5.2
256GB PCIe NVMe Class 40 M.2 S SD (Note-This is the drive i have the OS installed on. Also my Program Files, Program Files (x86) and Program Data. Apparently it has presently 97GB free)
Another M.2, 1TB... That is where i have all of my documents and personal pictures.


I primarily run MS Office 365 and browse YouTube and occasionally go to FaceBook to ask questions in groups (plants, snakes, insects, etc.). Security is from first a fiber router from Verizon, MS Defender, MalwareBytes Premium and Glasswire which i expect to show me any new attempted internet connection attempts. The computer is completely UTD (just verified. Remarkable how many times i can be wrong!).

When i first got the computer i was very happy with the speed (heck, my prior was ten years old...), but within about a month of being 6 months old, the operational speed of using programs locally dropped substantially and remains slow in my perception to this day, with what i think was also some drop for my internetresponse. Speedtest shows good numbers. The decrease in speed is perceived in the use of pretty much everything i can think of - menus, programs like Directory Opus, any of the MS Office apps web operations (variable),...

Because of this, what the above YouTube channels suggested seems to make sense to me. If that much is accurate, what i wish to achieve is:

Wipe out every trace possible of the present W11 installation. I have done both refreshing and re-installations before, but both of those seem to still rely on the original registry. I use a number of programs including Office, Adobe Acrobat Pro, Directory Opus, i am now kicking out Chrome and am working with Floorp, some Systernals programs (what the heck is the difference between a program and an app anyways???) and the like and if i get a full wipe i am sure it will once again take me two to three weeks to get most things reconfigured, but i don't want to leave it to chance by doing the process half-"backsided", if i am going to do this, i want to do it right. I run backups on all of my documents and photographs every week, though i must say that though i do not recall just what, i do recall that last time that i tried doing a re-installation i found myself wishing that i thought to also back up some aspect, perhaps the data files for my web browser (So that story is i was with FireFox since beta 3, i got mad at their changes a few months ago and switched to Chrome, then a few days ago i learned of Floorp).

I noticed that Dell has a lot of proprietary programs on this; i frankly don't know if i am better to delete them or keep them though i suspect deleting them would be a trick in itself, for when i spoke with one of their tech support people a week ago he showed me how i could use one of their automated features to re-install the OS and that it would survive my wiping (attempted wiping) the C: drive clean.

I hope i have provided comprehensive enough information that i do not put those who read this into a position of having to guess.

Please, someone out there who knows what they are doing, your thoughts?

Best Regards,
-Bruce

Anything showing up in Task Manager (ctrl-alt-del) that is using CPU cycles while the machine should be idle? (My PC typically is below 1% at idle.)

Do you have a lot of stuff that loads at startup?

Are your "o" and "w" keys sticking?

My two cents, either your OS drive of data drive is infected which is causing the slow down. Try running without the data drive and see if that changes anything.

Just so that i am not reporting back incorrect information, using Process Explorer i am presently seeing figures from 98.8 to 100. Unfortunatly when i am in the middle of work and i am annoyed by my perception of a slow-down, i still am usually seeing figures in the 90's for system idle (though given my person memory, i would not swear by that).

"o" and "w" seem to rebound perfectly well, but you remind me in case it could be a problem - I use a Logitech K800 keyboard and an MX Master 3S mouse. I had worried about perhaps an errant stream of input so i tried to hook in a very basic set of USB keyboard and mouse, but still over the course of a day had the same issues.

Hmmmmmm, lot of stuff at start-up? That is a question i guess an expert could answer, and i am not an expert. I suspect the answer is "Yes", but start-up has always been very reasonably fast. Nothing like lightning, but good. Checking AutoRuns the "Everything" response is six screens with 49 items per screen, though including area headers such as "HKLM\SYSTEM|CurrentControlSet\Control\Safeboot\AlternetShell" for a header example, of which it would appear about 10 of those per screen. Frankly, to me, it looks like a whopping amount of them. I just noticed that those figures were with Windows entries turned off. I just also hid Microsoft entries and now it is roughly 5 screens' worth.

Switching back to Process Explorer System Idle was at 95.x% when i first jumped over but quickly rebounded to figures in the 99 to 100 range.

@badrobot - is my best option to pull that chip from the MB, or is there another reliable way? I ask because i have made some grand mistakes that still haunt me so even if it makes me look like i still write with crayons, i try to have enough brains to ask-

brucemc777 said:

@badrobot - is my best option to pull that chip from the MB, or is there another reliable way? I ask because i have made some grand mistakes that still haunt me so even if it makes me look like i still write with crayons, i try to have enough brains to ask-

Click to expand...

M.2 SSD usually have screw that hold them in place. Take it off and pull the SSD out at an angle.

And i am embarrassed i didn't mention - in trying to figure this out i also suspected malware creeping in. I have run the online scans of Norton (which i usually do not trust but in this case, it was actually recommended), Kaspersky (ibid), HitMan Pro and Eset, all finding nothing.

Thanks for reminding me, badrobot, that could have been embarrassing...

Need to go out and cut the lawn or i will face the wrath of the wife (coming up on something like the 30th anniversary in Dec), i best handle that and resume in a while!

1. Disable Defender, Disable Defender, Disable Defender, Disable Defender! Did I mention to Disable Defender?!
2. Disable Dumb app control, it even prevents installing MS apps, like VisualC++ & Directx9. It sums up 11 overall.
3. Disable transparency and shadows, it can bring down even i9 to it's knees, so much for an optimized OS in 2024.

brucemc777 said:

Hmmmmmm, lot of stuff at start-up?

Click to expand...

By default 11 uses like 150 processes, I cut it down to half while keeping MSA, Store, OneDrive, Edge, etc.
MS wants to please everyone, but in the end, no one is. 11 tries to do everything, like walk on the Moon.

brucemc777 said:

(snip)

Hmmmmmm, lot of stuff at start-up? That is a question i guess an expert could answer, and i am not an expert.

Click to expand...

(snip)

You might try just typing "startup" into the search box. That'll offer "startup apps".

I've used that to disable most.

You haven't looked at CPU usage? I suggest, again, that you give that a go.

General troubleshooting steps for
SLOW COMPUTER

Things to try:

1. Perform a clean boot to eliminate software conflict causing the issue. If it doesn't happen in a clean boot, you have some software conflicting with Windows. Brink's procedure will help you weed out which one. Perform a Clean Boot in Windows 11 to Troubleshoot Software Conflicts Tutorial
2. Make sure you have no corrupt system files that is causing this problem. Open a command prompt as administrator and type sfc /scannow
Pay attention to the scan results to see if SFC found anything it could not repair. If it found corruption it could not fix followup with this command (note the spaces)
dism /online /cleanup-image /restorehealth
Restart computer
(Note-you can follow up with another sfc /scannow command to make sure that dism repaired the files)


3. disable fast startup Turn On or Off Fast Startup in Windows 11 Tutorial


4. After windows fully loads, right click on start button and select task manager. Look at the column headers. Are any resources running at 100%? If so, click on that header to sort the processes to show those hogging the most resources to be at the top. Open startup apps icon and disable any apps you do not need from running in the background at startup.

5. update your bios to latest and update graphics driver from the manufacturer,

6. Run disk cleanup. In search box search for "disk", In search results RIGHT click on Disk Cleanup & select 'run as administrator'
Along with what will already be checked, also put a check by Previous Windows Installations and Temporary Files

7. You have HDDs, Defrag them. search 'defrag'. In search results select "Defragment and Optimize" drives. The app will tell you which drives are fragmented and need to be optimized. Make sure on same page your ssds are being automatically optimized.

8. Check for Malware using Malwarebytes Free. Free Antivirus 2024 | Download Free Antivirus & Virus Scan | 100% Free & Easy Install
Do a full scan. Quarantine (or remove) anything that Malwarebytes detects. Restart the computer.

9. Test to see if issues remain while in safe mode? Boot to Safe Mode in Windows 11 Tutorial
10. Clear browser cache.

11. Repair Install Windows 11 Repair Install Windows 11 with an In-place Upgrade Tutorial

brucemc777 said:

Wipe out every trace possible of the present W11 installation. I have done both refreshing and re-installations before, but both of those seem to still rely on the original registry. I use a number of programs including Office, Adobe Acrobat Pro, Directory Opus, i am now kicking out Chrome and am working with Floorp, some Systernals programs (what the heck is the difference between a program and an app anyways???) and the like and if i get a full wipe i am sure it will once again take me two to three weeks to get most things reconfigured, but i don't want to leave it to chance by doing the process half-"backsided", if i am going to do this, i want to do it right. I run backups on all of my documents and photographs every week, though i must say that though i do not recall just what, i do recall that last time that i tried doing a re-installation i found myself wishing that i thought to also back up some aspect, perhaps the data files for my web browser (So that story is i was with FireFox since beta 3, i got mad at their changes a few months ago and switched to Chrome, then a few days ago i learned of Floorp).

Click to expand...

Consider a clean install > reinstall drivers and applications > restore documents and photographs > make backup images > (everything else is trial and error) > restore an image as needed

@ bobkin: Ohhhh, sorry, CPU usage, just before i started typing this, was 0. OK, it just jumped to 1%. Then back down to 0...
OK, in the Settings version of Startups i did cut out about half and brought that down to 17, figuring if anything didn't work it would just take a flip of the switch.

@ TairikuOkami: I have been using Defender because it was only marginally outperformed by a number of the better anti-virus programs out there that i would typically consider, such as bitdefender or eset.
If i scrap Defender, which one can i implement that will not cause the same issues Defender might cause? Also, "dumb app control"... might that be sometimes known as "User Account Control"?
Transparency and shadows? No problem, will be gone very soon!

@ glasskuter: I should have also mentioned i've done the DSIM & SFM thing many times, but i am looking forward to running through the Brink instructions you cite! He has helped me a number of times over the past-, and looking forward to checking out what killing faststartup might do, though i've got no idea why that should slow the system operation down, but i have no issue with taking your word for that!
The only process that i ever have anywhere near or at 100% is System Idle, which is why this problem is so confusing - i've jumped right over during "an episode" to check that, but nothing but System Idle is high.
Last BIOS update was about two or three days ago.
Glad to run disk cleanup. Ever since i offloaded ccleaner i have been a bit negligent, and i know that the system disc cleanup can get rid of some trash like any old Windows files. Thank you!
Only M.2's...
Always running MWB Premium
Interesting to see what Safe Mode might do - do you happen to know off the top of your head what will not work under Safe Mode?
I regularly clear browser caches and i have repaired Windows install several times, not from any other issue, just due to this slowdown that just doesn't seem rational, unless it came along with an "upgrade" somehow.

@zbook: That's exactly what the point of my original post was, just if i should, what could i do prior to make life easier, and any warnings or advice!

Oh, there was one other scan i did that comes hazily to mind, it has a real clownish name, but it was highly recommended by many, something like superduperextraspecial scan...

Thank you everyone for your input. I will exhaust all of these in hopes of finding the issue and if not then i know it is time to nuke everything off of my C: drive. Not looking forward to if i have to do that, but at least if i do, i'll know it was the right thing at the time. I much appreciate your help!

-Bruce

Do NOT disable or try to remove Windows Security (Defender) It is a part of Windows and cannot be uninstalled without causing issues.
You also don't need any other 3rd party AV app. You can have the free version of Malwarebytes and do manual scans.

Whatever happened, don't ever disable Defender.

brucemc777 said:

That's exactly what the point of my original post was, just if i should, what could i do prior to make life easier, and any warnings or advice!

Click to expand...

Drivers can be backed up but it's best to start with all new driver files.

TairikuOkami said:

1. Disable Defender, Disable Defender, Disable Defender, Disable Defender! Did I mention to Disable Defender?!
2. Disable Dumb app control, it even prevents installing MS apps, like VisualC++ & Directx9. It sums up 11 overall.
3. Disable transparency and shadows, it can bring down even i9 to it's knees, so much for an optimized OS in 2024.

View attachment 108674


By default 11 uses like 150 processes, I cut it down to half while keeping MSA, Store, OneDrive, Edge, etc.
MS wants to please everyone, but in the end, no one is. 11 tries to do everything, like walk on the Moon.

View attachment 108665

Click to expand...

That's one small step for man.............

brucemc777 said:

If i scrap Defender, which one can i implement that will not cause the same issues Defender might cause?

Click to expand...

Defender is the only AV I know, which causes a terrible slow down, like icons loading one by one.
Note that installing 3rd party AV will not disable Defender's processes, you have to do it yourself.

brucemc777 said:

Also, "dumb app control"... might that be sometimes known as "User Account Control"?

Click to expand...

TairikuOkami said:

Defender is the only AV I know, which causes a terrible slow down, like icons loading one by one.
Note that installing 3rd party AV will not disable Defender's processes, you have to do it yourself.

Click to expand...

Respectfully, I have to disagree with you on these points and for your first advise to be to disable defender is irresponsible.
One has to take this case by case and consider how a system is equipped and what other resource hog applications a user might use. It can not be said that defender slows down a system. It is usually other apps running in the background that slows a system down, not defender.
Defender in and of itself is not a major source of system slowdown.

I have found that more of a systems resources are hogged by other AV than Defender. (I do admit that at startup, it does take a few moments for defender to settle in as it starts all its processes, but this is true no matter what AV one uses)
Other AV, such as Norton, McAfee, AVG, etc have much more ill affect on a system than defender without adding much, if any, benefit to the user. It's up to the user if they choose to run such AV apps, but from the perspective of the system, it is designed to run better with defender and from all my observations, it does.

When I see a system running a resource hog AV, especially if the system has lower specs, I always recommend the user to consider uninstalling that AV and using defender.

To the point of a user having to disable defender if he installs another AV, it is not true that a user has to disable defender in all cases. It depends on the AV and whether or not it is designed to register with defender. If a 3rd party AV registers with defender during it's install, Defender is automatically turned off and the 3rd party AV becomes the security app for the system. If it does not register with defender, the 2 apps run side by side. In this case, depending on the the 3rd party AV, the 2 apps WILL conflict, resource use WILL go through the roof, and the system WILL definitely be affected.

I run Malwarebytes Premium alongside Defender with no ill affects on my system at all because MWB is designed to be friendly with defender and the two do not conflict. Most other 3rd party AV are not designed this way. If a user goes the third party route, I strongly advise that user do his homework.

If i may impose one more time (for now...) on this issue - I know that i saw the slow down hit rather dramatically when it hit back around June of 2023. I honestly don't have a lot of confidence in my ability to recognize improvements for the better (or worse) unless they also are dramatic. Keeping in mind that my primary uses of this computer are MS Office (Outlook (the ORIGINAL), Excel and Access), is there a recommended bench-marking program that is definitive and will take my perceptions out of the picture?