Some coaching for a Macrium Reflect newcomer, please

BrianS · Feb 3, 2023

@Bree

pls see my response A little help finding backup software

to your identical post

i dont think cross posting is allowed?

BrianS · Feb 3, 2023

TraderGary said:
I've never done a complete image restore from a Macrium Reflect image backup. However, I have mounted a Macrium image in File Explorer and restored random pictures and files to the desktop. All files that I restored worked perfectly, so I'm confident in the integrity of the backup image.

Well TG pulling out a file from an image is just not the same as recovering from a HDD crash to a new disc AFAIK. OBTW we are in W11 domain now with some dark restrictive practices in place eg gpedit, VM, compulsory M $ account registration and others - only available on Pro

Its like looking at your emergency generator "yup its ok hasnt leaked any oil"

Then there are those who have done dozens of recoveries and never had a problem. Good luck for you neighbour.

Im so jaundiced people think I must be oriental

Imagine if you were a small business owner running you accounts through a basic app approved for tax/payroll use etc I remember those days. You need to be as sure as possible that a system crash does take out your records and all your app settings. Way back in Win XP days I ran a simple Database .exe app that had an Xcel type file system. I didnt trust commercial systems as these would be embedded in Windows registry and tied to my machine - as is M $ practice. I could keep all this and the app backed up on a CD - HDDs werent that reliable and we didnt have usb. I ran a copy every month's final account and stored in my office safe. I emailed a 3 month file to my bookeeper and she kept customer accounts in a brick garage (no cars or flammables inside) and no forest fire risk. That was 30 years ago of course - cheap and trustworthy. Didnt require any Nerdy work.

TraderGary · Feb 3, 2023

@BrianS, I can't put all my trust in only one backup method. My data and my photos are too important to me. My backup strategy consists of three separate methods all being run simultaneously.

1. Microsoft OneDrive real-time data mirror to 1TB cloud OneDrive.
2. Microsoft File History
3. Macrium Reflect drive images made daily.

One of my backup methods MUST store remotely. All my data and photos are kept in my OneDrive folder.

I currently have no plans to ever do a complete Macrium Reflect image restore. I do Macrium Reflect images to have a backup of everything on my computer. I tested to be sure I could accurately restore any single file or any folder of files. I can, and that is all that is important to me.

Buddy · Feb 3, 2023

TraderGary said:
My backup strategy consists of three separate methods all being run simultaneously.

1. Microsoft OneDrive real-time data mirror to 1TB cloud OneDrive.
2. Microsoft File History
3. Macrium Reflect drive images made daily.

1-That's mirror, as in one-way upload, right? Not sync, which would delete cloud files if you delete them on the PC, correct?
1-Are you trying to keep multiple computers in sync on data?
1-Do you see any response/performance effect from real-time?
3-If I understand you correctly, you are more interested in file recovery than in system restore from HDD crash, malware, bad MS update, etc.
3-Do you keep your MR images offsite, too? Or just the files on OneDrive?

TraderGary · Feb 3, 2023

Buddy said:
1-That's mirror, as in one-way upload, right? Not sync, which would delete cloud files if you delete them on the PC, correct?

OneDrive does a complete sync both ways. If you delete a file from either the cloud or from the PC, it deletes from the other. Cloud OneDrive is always a mirror of local OneDrive.

Buddy said:
1-Are you trying to keep multiple computers in sync on data?

I have two computers. They are listed below in "My Computers". They both use OneDrive and they both are always in sync with each other. All my data and photos are also available via OneDrive on my Pixel 7 Pro phone. I love it.

Buddy said:
1-Do you see any response/performance effect from real-time?

I've never thought about a response/performance effect as I've never noticed any. I've never read about any. In fact, your comment is the first I've ever heard mention of it.

Buddy said:
3-If I understand you correctly, you are more interested in file recovery than in system restore from HDD crash, malware, bad MS update, etc.

My data is what's important to have backed up. I can recreate anything except my photos and my data. I prefer to do a clean install if I have any kind of problem. With a clean install, my data is restored the instant I log in to Windows as it's simply waiting for me on OneDrive.

Buddy said:
3-Do you keep your MR images offsite, too? Or just the files on OneDrive?

Only OneDrive is offsite. I have two 2TB Samsung T7 Shield SSDs. One is dedicated to MR images. One is dedicated to Microsoft File History.

Buddy · Feb 3, 2023

Thanks, @TraderGary.

Buddy · Feb 12, 2023

I went to the Macrium knowledge base and started reading up on preparing backup media - as a first step toward deciding what to buy for my offsite storage. After about 30 minutes there, I had to back away. It read like a complicated multi-step process to prepare a bootable drive and then back up an image to it. This is billed as "Quick Start", but there are a number of detailed choices about things that I don't have in my personal skill set.

Creating rescue media - KnowledgeBase v7.2 - Macrium Reflect Knowledgebase - KnowledgeBase v7.2 - Macrium Reflect Knowledgebase

knowledgebase.macrium.com

For example, I guess I'll be Googling a while to learn what this means:

"Pressing 'Build' will re-populate the Staging Area, mount the WIM and copy the relevant files before dismounting the WIM and continuing with the build target operation."

What is the Staging Area? Where is it? When was it originally populated that it now needs repopulation? How and why does one mount and unmount the WIM? You get my drift.

Am I missing something here? Is there a turnkey startup that gets you a bootable recovery drive with an image without having to master 100 choices? I'm not looking for "Macrium for Dummies" and I'm not a dummy, it's just that my current skills lie elsewhere. Apologies if I sound frustrated or like I'm looking for it to be painfully easy. I just need an entry point to learn from.

SIW2 · Feb 12, 2023

you could just copy the program folder into your winpe and point at it with winpeshl.ini.

easiest to grab winre.wim and stick in there
dont really need to mount winre.wim, pop the stuff in with 7-zip

Buddy · Feb 12, 2023

SIW2 said:
you could just copy the program folder into your winpe and point at it with winpeshl.ini.

easiest to grab winre.wim and stick in there
dont really need to mount winre.wim, pop the stuff in with 7-zip

You just highlighted my point. Where is my winpe? What is it? Where is winpeshi.ini? Where is winre.wim? Once I put this stuff in winpeshi.ini, now what?

I'm starting from scratch in knowledge about this process. Does the program do all this for you, or do you have to learn all the parts, pieces, and processes before creating bootable rescue media and saving a system image?

Buddy · Feb 12, 2023

To ask it a different and simpler way...

Would it be a mistake to just select a device and click "Build"?

SIW2 · Feb 12, 2023

Where is my winpe?

small version of windows that loads into ram. It is in the installation media called boot.wim and it should be on your hard disk called winre.wim

winre.wim should be easy to find.

then for example putting these macrium files into a folder called macrium:

then put that folder into winre.wim program files folder

then add this little text file to winre.wim system32 to point at the executable

winpeshl.ini

Code:

[LaunchApp]
AppPath=%programfiles%\macrium\reflectbin.exe

winpeshl.exe looks for winpeshl.ini and will launch whatever you have specified as the shel.

if winpeshl.ini is not present, it tries to launch setup.exe as the shel

if setup.exe is not found, you will get cmd prompt as the shel.

SIW2 · Feb 12, 2023

alternatively you could make a simple little menu using pecmd like this:

it is quite simple for anybody wants to have a go

these 4 files in winre windows\system32 (attached in zip below )

win7 doesnt mind

Code:

[LaunchApps]
"Pecmd.exe Main %SystemDrive%\Windows\System32\Pecmd.ini"

but win11 is fussy and insists on

Code:

[LaunchApp]
AppPath="Pecmd.exe Main %SystemDrive%\Windows\System32\Pecmd.ini"

pemenu is just a text file with .wcs extension, can be easily added to.

pemenu.wcs

Code:

_SUB EASYPE,L10T10W334H242,PEMENU,,#4
     ITEM Button1,L8T6W155H30,SHUTDOWN,CALL SHT,SHELL32.DLL#27
     ITEM Button11,L168T6W155H30,REBOOT,CALL RBT,SHELL32.DLL#137
     ITEM Button2,L8T46W155H30,CMD,EXEC cmd.exe,cmd.exe#0
     ITEM Button21,L168T46W155H30,NOTEPAD,EXEC notepad.exe,notepad.exe#0
     ITEM Button4,L8T86W155H30,IMAGE RESTORE,EXEC bmrui.exe,bmrui.exe#0
     ITEM Button41,L168T86W155H30,RECOVERY OPTS,EXEC X:\SOURCES\RECOVERY\RECENV.EXE,X:\SOURCES\RECOVERY\RECENV.EXE#0
     ITEM Button5,L8T126W155H30,MACRIUM,EXEC %programfiles%\macrium\reflectbin.exe,%programfiles%\macrium\reflectbin.exe#29
     ITEM Button51,L168T126W155H30,SHADOWCOPIES,EXEC %programfiles%\SHADOWCOPYVIEWx64.exe,%programfiles%\SHADOWCOPYVIEWx64.exe#0
     ITEM Button6,L8T166W155H30,800,TEAM EXEC PECMD DISP W800 H600 B32 F60|KILL \,PECMD.EXE#2
     ITEM Button61,L168T166W155H30,1024,TEAM EXEC PECMD DISP W1024 H768 B32 F60|KILL \,PECMD.EXE#2
_END

_SUB RBT
MESS Restart pc now ?@RESTART PC ?#YN $Y
FIND $%YESNO%=YES,SHUT R
_END
 
_SUB SHT
MESS Shutdown pc now ?@SHUTDOWN PC ?#YN
FIND $%YESNO%=YES,SHUT
_END
/////////////////////////////////
CALL @EASYPE

glasskuter · Feb 12, 2023

You (and others)are trying to make this so much more difficult that it actually is.
@Kari made a tutorial with screenshoots that should get any noobie going.

Backup and Restore with Macrium Reflect

How to Create and Restore a System Image Backup with Macrium Reflect

www.tenforums.com

Buddy · Feb 12, 2023

glasskuter said:
You (and others)are trying to make this so much more difficult that it actually is.
@Kari made a tutorial with screenshoots that should get any noobie going.

Backup and Restore with Macrium Reflect

How to Create and Restore a System Image Backup with Macrium Reflect

www.tenforums.com

Thanks @glasskuter. I'll look at it in more detail tomorrow, but that looks like what I need. The Macrium KB dove straight into the deep end. I'll get there, but not on day one.

kado897 · Feb 13, 2023

Buddy said:
I went to the Macrium knowledge base and started reading up on preparing backup media - as a first step toward deciding what to buy for my offsite storage. After about 30 minutes there, I had to back away. It read like a complicated multi-step process to prepare a bootable drive and then back up an image to it. This is billed as "Quick Start", but there are a number of detailed choices about things that I don't have in my personal skill set.

Creating rescue media - KnowledgeBase v7.2 - Macrium Reflect Knowledgebase - KnowledgeBase v7.2 - Macrium Reflect Knowledgebase

knowledgebase.macrium.com

For example, I guess I'll be Googling a while to learn what this means:

"Pressing 'Build' will re-populate the Staging Area, mount the WIM and copy the relevant files before dismounting the WIM and continuing with the build target operation."

What is the Staging Area? Where is it? When was it originally populated that it now needs repopulation? How and why does one mount and unmount the WIM? You get my drift.

Am I missing something here? Is there a turnkey startup that gets you a bootable recovery drive with an image without having to master 100 choices? I'm not looking for "Macrium for Dummies" and I'm not a dummy, it's just that my current skills lie elsewhere. Apologies if I sound frustrated or like I'm looking for it to be painfully easy. I just need an entry point to learn from.

Images are written to a normal data drive. They are just files. The recovery drive is just a USB stick containing Macrium code in a WinRE/WinPE bootable drive, it does not contain the backup image. You boot from it to read the image file off its disk and apply it to the OS drive as you cannot overwrite a running OS.

Buddy · Feb 13, 2023

@kado897 Is it possible to also write the image to the bootable device, or does it have to be elsewhere?

Ghot · Feb 13, 2023

Buddy said:
@kado897 Is it possible to also write the image to the bootable device, or does it have to be elsewhere?

It's possible. It just doesn't make much sense. If the bootable device fails, it'll take your backup with it.

Besides fixing software errors, backups are used to save the OS even if the OS drive fails.
If the OS SSD fails for example...
Just replace it, boot from the Macrium media, and restore the OS to the new drive.
This works because the backup is not stored on the OS drive.

But, technically it is possible to store the backup anywhere.

Bree · Feb 13, 2023

Buddy said:
Is it possible to also write the image to the bootable device, or does it have to be elsewhere?

Yes, it is possible to write the image to the bootable device - providing it has enough space of course.

Usual practice is to use a small usb stick as the bootable device and a separate external usb hdd for the images.

kado897 · Feb 13, 2023

Buddy said:
@kado897 Is it possible to also write the image to the bootable device, or does it have to be elsewhere?

It doesn't have to be elsewhere. The only place it can't be is on the drive being restored for obvious reasons. Images tend to be fairly large so a sizeable external drive is more usually used. I have images on two separate USB attached drives. The main problem with storing the image on the recovery media, apart from size, is that every time the recovery media is updated it wipes everything on the thumb drive.

Buddy · Feb 13, 2023

Bree said:
Yes, it is possible to write the image to the bootable device - providing it has enough space of course.

Usual practice is to use a small usb stick as the bootable device and a separate external usb hdd for the images.

Thanks, @kado897, @Bree, and @Ghot.

This clarifies my media selection. It looks like I'll want my primary backup image on a desktop local USB, with a safety copy stored on a drive kept elsewhere in the event of burglary, house fire, tornado, or whatever. Two identical bootable USB sticks in the two locations.

Add @kado897 explaining updating the bootable drive wiping the backups is a solid reason not to add the extra hassle of replacing the backups. Since I also plan to keep file backups done with FreeFileSync on the same drive as the Macrium image , it would require replacing them too. Okay, then, here we go.