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Levitate11 · Saturday at 2:50 PM

Lamberto Vitali said:
I didn't say it was, it's much better value than other software, in fact it used to be $2!
What I said was some people don't want to be throwing $5 at something.

I'm fairly sure most people would be OK with someone not paying the $5 if they need it for food. But if it's not, and you like the tool, it's nice to support developers.

Lamberto Vitali · Saturday at 3:59 PM

Maybe. If I had a million dollars I might be inclined to donate to charity first.
The 5$ would then be taken away form someone very needy.

tistou77 · Monday at 4:48 PM

Oh sh*t, with the latest preview of W11 24h2 (.4202), SAB 3.9bb (beta) no longer works...
We are forced to upgrade to 3.9.9 and the progress bar all green, all ugly

Lamberto Vitali · Monday at 4:56 PM

Does this mean Microsoft and Startallback are having a silly childish fight over whether it can run or not? I can't see Windows having so many major changes to the start menu so startallback breaks. Microsoft are up to something.

tistou77 · Monday at 5:01 PM

I saw that MS had changed some things in the Insider channel a while back, and a SAB update must have been made
And it's now in the Retail channel, it seems

MS has updated the Start Menu (available with the Insider channel) if I remember correctly, but I haven't looked at how it was, using the Windows 7 Menu

Lamberto Vitali · Monday at 5:27 PM

I complained in feedback about the start menu being so bad everyone was using startallback, maybe they listen to complaints.

I've been using voice to text, ao I can write screeds of annoyances hahaha!

Levitate11 · Monday at 7:57 PM

Lamberto Vitali said:
I complained in feedback about the start menu being so bad everyone was using startallback, maybe they listen to complaints.

I'd be shocked if they listened to anyone on that point now. They've been making the Start Menu format worse with every release since XP - and making it more and more difficult to customize to the point that it's lost most all functionality. They're clueless.

Lamberto Vitali · Monday at 9:10 PM

They're making it more like the mac, for simpletons. But I don't see why it can't be simple with dozens of options to make it more complex.

Levitate11 · Monday at 11:12 PM

Lamberto Vitali said:
They're making it more like the mac, for simpletons. But I don't see why it can't be simple with dozens of options to make it more complex.

Yep.

asteski · Tuesday at 2:27 AM

Lamberto Vitali said:
They're making it more like the mac, for simpletons. But I don't see why it can't be simple with dozens of options to make it more complex.

More like Chromebook I'd say, MacOS doesn't have start menu like Windows or Chromebook does. Power Menu on the other hand, definitely MacOS inspired.

Levitate11 said:
I'd be shocked if they listened to anyone on that point now. They've been making the Start Menu format worse with every release since XP - and making it more and more difficult to customize to the point that it's lost most all functionality. They're clueless.

Not trying to be MS advocate here, but people have been doing some fantastic modifications of Start menu using Windhawk mods, but MS will also introduce more customization to Start menu in the future, already in dev channel afaik.

Edwin · Tuesday at 5:52 AM

There's a certain arrogance about MS, they try to be innovative but they suck at it!
Then they get negative feedback so they copycat other Devs work then pass it off as their own brainchild, as if they invented the wheel!
They need to concentrate on what works and what users want.

tistou77 · Tuesday at 6:05 AM

And they often "roll back" features
They remove them, then add them back, because there are too many unhappy users
They're going to re add the "small icon" option for the taskbar (already done in the Insider)

flhthemi · Tuesday at 7:46 AM

tistou77 said:
And they often "roll back" features
They remove them, then add them back, because there are too many unhappy users
They're going to re add the "small icon" option for the taskbar (already done in the Insider)

Well they need to listen a little more and give us back the ability to put the taskbar where WE want it! then there would be just about no need for SAB or Explorer Patcher! Sheesh! Wake up Microsoft buttheads!

Lamberto Vitali · Tuesday at 7:51 AM

asteski said:
More like Chromebook I'd say, MacOS doesn't have start menu like Windows or Chromebook does. Power Menu on the other hand, definitely MacOS inspired.

The main reason I won't use a Mac. How the fcuk do I start a program without a start menu?!?! The taskbar is for RUNNING tasks. The desktop is for temporary storage of stuff you're working on. Jeez!!! And mac even had to copy the windows taskbar, they didn't even have that. The interface looks like a child's toy! And I hated their baby names like chooser, finder, put away, WTF? It made me laugh once - "Click cancel to discontinue startup" (of file sharing, which you had to start manually!) On their machines didn't even have a hard disk light, you couldn't tell if it was doing anything!

tistou77 said:
And they often "roll back" features
They remove them, then add them back, because there are too many unhappy users
They're going to re add the "small icon" option for the taskbar (already done in the Insider)

What on earth is the point of ever ever removing a feature?!? Once you've put the work into it, LEAVE IT THERE! People who don't like it can simply not use it!

Lamberto Vitali · Tuesday at 8:00 AM

flhthemi said:
Well they need to listen a little more and give us back the ability to put the taskbar where WE want it! then there would be just about no need for SAB or Explorer Patcher! Sheesh! Wake up Microsoft buttheads!

Uhhhh....uhuhuhuhu! Er.... like..... yeah! Or something.

asteski · Tuesday at 11:47 AM

Lamberto Vitali said:
How the fcuk do I start a program without a start menu?!?! The taskbar is for RUNNING tasks. The desktop is for temporary storage of stuff you're working on. Jeez!!! And mac even had to copy the windows taskbar, they didn't even have that.

There are many ways to do that, through dock or spotlight, there's also a thing called launchpad, which shows all your apps listed as icons in full screen mode. I own MacBook and I agree on some level here, a lot of UI has some strange design decisions which I don't like (like menu bar at the top and windows management), but I may not be objective after using Windows for 25 years. But some features are actually very good, and I wanted to incorporate them into Windows, hence WinMac was born.

Lamberto Vitali · Tuesday at 11:55 AM

I've used Windows, Mac, Linux at work and at home since they were invented. Mac - for kids. Linux - for geeks. Windows - for normal people. Unfortunately Microsoft is taking the bad things from Mac and Linux and putting them into Windows. Soon we'll have three identical operating systems, just like the three identical political parties in the UK.

Levitate11 · Tuesday at 1:13 PM

asteski said:
...Not trying to be MS advocate here, but people have been doing some fantastic modifications of Start menu using Windhawk mods, but MS will also introduce more customization to Start menu in the future, already in dev channel afaik.

That would be nice. I do use Windhawk for certain things. The sad part is that many users customized the Start menu. I'm going to wild guess that .01% of MS users will ever use the formatting options in Notepad.

Edwin said:
There's a certain arrogance about MS, they try to be innovative but they suck at it!
Then they get negative feedback so they copycat other Devs work then pass it off as their own brainchild, as if they invented the wheel!
They need to concentrate on what works and what users want.

They create focus groups. I've been closer to that cycle in my past. The key problem is that they only ask the focus groups questions that they want answers to.

It's like when you finish a support session with mots any Corporation. They ask you to fill out a quick survey. Then they ask you a couple of questions about how the support rep was, their knowledge, and whether the problem is fixed.

The rep was often fine - but you'd really like to comment on how terrible their design is, how it could easily be better, how they hide their support options from being discovered, and how you had to go through four people/phone numbers to find a support rep that could actually fix the problem.

But they don't want to know about that.

Winuser · Tuesday at 6:08 PM

Lamberto Vitali said:
What do I do when I restart my computer and startallback isn't running? The only way I can find is to install it again! There's no command to start the program!

I think you found a bug. Accessing SAB in Control Panel use to work. Out of curiosity I disabled it in my Canary build. When I clicked on it in Control Panel I could move the Taskbar to the top but SAB kept turning off when I hit the restart as it suggested. I had to reinstall SAB to keep it running.

Lamberto Vitali · Tuesday at 7:12 PM

Levitate11 said:
That would be nice. I do use Windhawk for certain things. The sad part is that many users customized the Start menu. I'm going to wild guess that .01% of MS users will ever use the formatting options in Notepad.

They will if they can't use wordpad. I of course got a hold of a copy from previous windows/internet/somewhere.

Levitate11 said:
They create focus groups. I've been closer to that cycle in my past. The key problem is that they only ask the focus groups questions that they want answers to.

Sounds like governments asking scientists the questions they want answers to, and removing the funding from those who answer "incorrectly". You can hazard a guess as to what subject I'm talking about, but most of you won't believe me.

Levitate11 said:
It's like when you finish a support session with mots any Corporation. They ask you to fill out a quick survey. Then they ask you a couple of questions about how the support rep was, their knowledge, and whether the problem is fixed.

The rep was often fine - but you'd really like to comment on how terrible their design is, how it could easily be better, how they hide their support options from being discovered, and how you had to go through four people/phone numbers to find a support rep that could actually fix the problem.

But they don't want to know about that.

I tell them anyway. There's usually a box to type somewhere.

Also I find the complaints system. I actually made four seperate complaints in one go to Royal Bank of Scotland.

Winuser said:
I think you found a bug. Accessing SAB in Control Panel use to work. Out of curiosity I disabled it in my Canary build. When I clicked on it in Control Panel I could move the Taskbar to the top but SAB kept turning off when I hit the restart as it suggested. I had to reinstall SAB to keep it running.

I can access SAB in control panel, but it doesn't start it if it's gone. This suggests it hasn't crashed, but lost the connection to the windows taskbar/start menu.

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StartAllBack: Windows 11 from better timeline

Embrace, enhance, unsweep classic UI from under the rug

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