Solved Updating KB5015814

rronaldson · Jul 24, 2022

Wisewiz said:
Try my basic method in #18 above. If you are a newcomer to either UUP Dump or Rufus, just ask questions here as they arise. It's really quite easy, once you know what you're doing. And since the problem update is included in the updated system, the error can't recur.

Trouble is I don't know what I am doing :) Had a quick look at UUP Dump and found my OS build. But in the browse file section for Cumulative Update for Windows 11 (22000.778) amd64 it couldn'r find KB5015814. Thanks for trying to help but I haven't got time now today to look further into this. I'll see what I can do tomorrow.

Wisewiz · Jul 24, 2022

Sounds good. And you won't need to search for 814. It's in the package we'll help you find and download. See you back here when you can make it.

Dan

BrianInEngland · Jul 24, 2022

x BlueRobot said:
Just to note, you'll always see a number of new threads regarding an CU failing to install, since that is usually the only time when users will attempt to update their systems.

This is not because of Windows Update or Microsoft, most updates fail because there is corruption on the user's machine; often, regarding parts of the registry or the Component Store (WinSxS). Every update failure is specific to that particular machine, you can have the same update failing on different machines for very different reasons.

How do you diagnose what is causing the update to fail to install? In most cases, you need to check the CBS log and check for error messages.

It does seem that there are an unusual number of people with the same/similar errors during Windows update installs

rronaldson · Jul 25, 2022

TraderGary said:
I just received a new update, 22000.832.
Does this new update install for you?

I get the "Cannot install this update" message for 832. I don't believe that 832 will install until 814 installs.

TraderGary · Jul 25, 2022

rronaldson said:
I get the "Cannot install this update" message for 832. I don't believe that 832 will install until 814 installs.

Cumulative updates are updates that bundle multiple updates, both new and previously released updates. You are not required to have done previous updates first.

My current version is 22000.832.

I'm currently not in the Windows Insider Program and I'm not running any Beta OS. That's why I can do regular updates.

x BlueRobot · Jul 25, 2022

rronaldson said:
I get the "Cannot install this update" message for 832.

You probably haven't got the prerequisite SSU, ensure you have the latest SSU and then attempt to install the update again.

rronaldson · Jul 25, 2022

x BlueRobot said:
You probably haven't got the prerequisite SSU, ensure you have the latest SSU and then attempt to install the update again.

Where can I find the latest SSU for Win11 21H2

x BlueRobot · Jul 25, 2022

They're available here - Security Update Guide - Microsoft Security Response Center

You'll need to look up the KB number within the update catalog and download the .MSU file.

x BlueRobot · Jul 25, 2022

x BlueRobot said:
They're available here - Security Update Guide - Microsoft Security Response Center

It seems that Windows 11 had it's own specific SSU released back in November - KB5006755: Servicing stack update for Windows 11: November 16, 2021

Berton · Jul 25, 2022

Haven't seen any issues with KB5015814 since it was installed on 7/12/2022 nor with the newer KB5015882 on my Desktop, haven't updated on my Notebook yet.

rronaldson · Jul 25, 2022

x BlueRobot said:
It seems that Windows 11 had it's own specific SSU released back in November - KB5006755: Servicing stack update for Windows 11: November 16, 2021

Looked through my Update History and can't find that one.

rronaldson · Jul 25, 2022

x BlueRobot said:
It seems that Windows 11 had it's own specific SSU released back in November - KB5006755: Servicing stack update for Windows 11: November 16, 2021

That was before I upgraded to Windows 11.

glasskuter · Jul 25, 2022

Not that I know diddly squat, but I have a theory that probably will make no sense to the rest of you and you'll think I'm stupid.

This seems to be happening only on cumulatives. It doesn't seem to be happening on other updates. Both last month and this month I have followed the posts and it seems every user I've looked at that has a profile of his specs has had some third party AV.

I had this same problem with last months cumulative update. It started with the cumulative update preview. Tried every way in the world to get it to apply through WU. (SFC, turn of MWB, etc,etc) I waited for it to come out on update Tuesday, it failed again. I then downloaded from MS server but it still failed. I ended up restoring an image made one day prior to the day I originally tried to apply the update preview (when trouble started.) (some people have done a repair install instead to get it to work.)
After image was restored, I disabled MWB, & just to be on the safe side, Defender as well. (I think any other AV should be disabled here). I applied the update I downloaded and boom, it installed first time.

My theory is this. I think if one uses any third party AV, it has to be turned off before applying one of these cumulatives through WU (even though we never had to before) I also think for some reason once one of these cumulatives fail, some sort of flag or bit is getting set that prevents it from installing no matter what anyone does or how many times one tries. Both a repair install or restoring from an image would clear this bit or flag.

Is my theory so far fetched it's in the Twilight Zone? Am I stupid for thinking it may be happening?

Berton · Jul 25, 2022

glasskuter said:
My theory is this. I think if one uses any third party AV, it has to be turned off before applying one of these cumulatives through WU (even though we never had to before) I also think for some reason once one of these cumulatives fail, some sort of flag or bit is getting set that prevents it from installing no matter what anyone does or how many times one tries. Both a repair install or restoring from an image would clear this bit or flag.

That may not be too-far fetched, I recall having to do that when installing Service Packs back about 20 years or so.

BrianInEngland · Jul 25, 2022

glasskuter said:
Not that I know diddly squat, but I have a theory that probably will make no sense to the rest of you and you'll think I'm stupid.

This seems to be happening only on cumulatives. It doesn't seem to be happening on other updates. Both last month and this month I have followed the posts and it seems every user I've looked at that has a profile of his specs has had some third party AV.

I had this same problem with last months cumulative update. It started with the cumulative update preview. Tried every way in the world to get it to apply through WU. (SFC, turn of MWB, etc,etc) I waited for it to come out on update Tuesday, it failed again. I then downloaded from MS server but it still failed. I ended up restoring an image made one day prior to the day I originally tried to apply the update preview (when trouble started.) (some people have done a repair install instead to get it to work.)
After image was restored, I disabled MWB, & just to be on the safe side, Defender as well. (I think any other AV should be disabled here). I applied the update I downloaded and boom, it installed first time.

My theory is this. I think if one uses any third party AV, it has to be turned off before applying one of these cumulatives through WU (even though we never had to before) I also think for some reason once one of these cumulatives fail, some sort of flag or bit is getting set that prevents it from installing no matter what anyone does or how many times one tries. Both a repair install or restoring from an image would clear this bit or flag.

Is my theory so far fetched it's in the Twilight Zone? Am I stupid for thinking it may be happening?

You may be on to something. I did a clean install of 22621 RP on June 29th, the June 30th CU updated to 22621.169. I've never paid for MWB but I installed it, of course this gives a 2-week trial of the full functionality. The .232 update on July 12th (within the 2-week period) failed.
Repair install using MS ISO last week got the .232 update without problems. MWB was outside the 2-week period then so all the anti-malware functionality was disabled.

Can confirm that Windows Update is working for Defender updates

x BlueRobot · Jul 25, 2022

AV programs used to cause some problems in the past: particularly Norton and Avast, the same applies to third-party firewalls which often made changes to the firewall services and rules so Windows Update wouldn't be able to connect to the Windows Update servers.

To clarify, a repair install or in-place upgrade is only going to resolve corruptions which arise from RTM payload files or registry entries. For example, Brian's issue is due to corrupted or mismatched delta files, you can't get these files from an .ISO image unless the proper cumulative updates have been applied to it.

As I've said previously, most update failures are due to corruption to the Component Store which encompasses the WinSxS folder, the COMPONENTS hive and the CBS subkey which is part of the SOFTWARE hive. In some circumstances, the servicing stack may be corrupted itself, but usually that is evident from DISM failing to run at all. You need to check the CBS log(s) which are part of %systemroot%\Logs\CBS.

And please do not - under any circumstances - take ownership or change permissions in regards to the WinSxS folder or the registry. You will not be able to restore these back correctly unless you use the APIs exposed by Windows.

BrianInEngland · Jul 25, 2022

x BlueRobot said:
AV programs used to cause some problems in the past: particularly Norton and Avast, the same applies to third-party firewalls which often made changes to the firewall services and rules so Windows Update wouldn't be able to connect to the Windows Update servers.

To clarify, a repair install or in-place upgrade is only going to resolve corruptions which arise from RTM payload files or registry entries. For example, Brian's issue is due to corrupted or mismatched delta files, you can't get these files from an .ISO image unless the proper cumulative updates have been applied to it.

As I've said previously, most update failures are due to corruption to the Component Store which encompasses the WinSxS folder, the COMPONENTS hive and the CBS subkey which is part of the SOFTWARE hive. In some circumstances, the servicing stack may be corrupted itself, but usually that is evident from DISM failing to run at all. You need to check the CBS log(s) which are part of %systemroot%\Logs\CBS.

And please do not - under any circumstances - take ownership or change permissions in regards to the WinSxS folder or the registry. You will not be able to restore these back correctly unless you use the APIs exposed by Windows.

I've never touched anything or changed any permissions.
Clean install using MS ISO 22621.1 on June 29th
Windows Update to 22621.105 same day, just after clean install.
Windows Update to 22621.169 the following day.

22621.232 failed to install on July 12th, others reported issues on this forum. Some users had exactly the same error and one had a 'looks installed but fails on restart' situation, just like mine.

SFC /scannow and DISM /checkhealth and /scanhealth have never shown any errors prior to or since the update failed. Nothing was changed on my PC in the two weeks between the .169 and .232 updates.

Used UUP Dump in place upgrade to install 22621.232. Beta 22622.436 won't install, same error as others reported.

In-place upgrade last week using MS ISO 22621.1 again, it updated to 22621.105 during install as this was the version shown when I checked as soon as I was back on the desktop, before manually checking for updates. This time WU installed .232 without issues but Beta 22622.436 still won't install.

Windows Defender is updating properly through WU, no errors.

x BlueRobot · Jul 25, 2022

BrianInEngland said:
I've never touched anything or changed any permissions.

I never said that you did. I simply pointing out that you shouldn't change those permissions in order to make modifications to the WinSxS directory or registry. I've seen users on this forum and others do exactly that without understanding how it is dangerous to do so.

BrianInEngland said:
Some users had exactly the same error and one had a 'looks installed but fails on restart' situation, just like mine.

As I've mentioned before, only because someone has the same error message, it doesn't mean the cause is same. Most of the Windows Update error codes are quite generic and can be caused by several different things.

BrianInEngland said:
SFC /scannow and DISM /checkhealth and /scanhealth have never shown any errors prior to or since the update failed.

SFC and DISM aren't perfect - they're actually suited for both different things: SFC will check for corruption within the WinSxS folder by checking the hashes within the manifest files against the associated payload files. It will also examine for any package corruption as well. DISM is actually best suited for checking for registry corruption within the COMPONENTS hive and CBS subkey. /CheckHealth is pretty useless to be honest, it just checks for the presence of two corruption flags: Corrupt and Unserviceable which are both values which belong to the CBS subkey.

BrianInEngland said:
Windows Defender is updating properly through WU, no errors.

Window Defender definition updates do not involve the Component Store. That's why they're installing correctly. The CBS log is the first place to check for any errors; DISM log should be checked when DISM doesn't run properly and the WindowsUpdate.log is useful for when updates are failing to download. There is the setupapi.dev.log file is best for diagnosing issues related to the Driver Store; you'll know this is the case from looking at the CBS log.

x BlueRobot · Jul 25, 2022

Addendum: The SFCFix tool which I prompted to use before does take ownership and change the permissions of the WinSxS sub-folders, however, promptly and correctly restores the ownership back to the TrustedInstaller.

glasskuter · Jul 25, 2022

x BlueRobot said:
only because someone has the same error message, it doesn't mean the cause is same.

That is certainly true. But it has not been someone, but a lot of someones on 2 consecutive cumulatives. The web and feedback hub tell the tale....and it's only with cumulatives. With normal update problems usually a reset of WU components fixes it. Not with this. I would hazard to say there are probably more Windows Defender users than third party AV users. They wouldn't be affected if my theory is true. Yes, I know it's a theory and out in left field.

I have kb5015882 waiting to be downloaded. I'm going to make another backup and go through the same song and dance again to see what happens, the whole thing from sfc, dism, reset WU, everything up to disabling AV and letting WU do its thing.