Why Has No One Mentioned The Prospect Of Dumping Millions Of Incompatible Machines ?

I might try a similar thing with a machine that has only TPM 1.2 but is UEFI now running Win10 latest RTM. I've already done a bootable hardware clone of the drive so won't lose anything if I join it to the Windows Insider program.

Berton said:

I just dumped an old Dell Inspiron 530S because it simply didn't have the things necessary to keep up on Win11. It was running the Win10 Pro Insider Preview Dev OS.

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Why on earth dump it - that machine would make an excellent NAS server - install a Linux distro on it (Free of course) and then have a very safe and reliable NAS server !!! You can also use it as an Internet gateway to keep malware etc off your network in addition to any security on your Windows machines.

At least donate it to charity if you've no further use for it -- In many 3rd world places people would love ANY computer however old.

Cheers
jimbo

It might come as a shock to know that most people do not have or want a nas server.

Ther may be charity organizations that will take older machines, which saves them going to landfill, for a while anyway..

england66 said:

Original poster here.

I admit that using 12 machines may be unusual for some people but I liked collecting them and use them for different purposes. In the case of the Windows 7 machines some are used for browsing adult sites, some solely for my music collection and never get connected to the Internet.Some for just general browsing. The four Windows 10 machines are used for banking,shopping etc. To me its interesting that the Windows 7 machines despite not having Windows Updates for 18 months have never experienced any signs of malware, but the Windows 10 ones have had issues with browser redirects etc which hopefully is now fixed. . The Windows 7 and 10 machines are connected to the Internet via different routers (ISP's) and i don't share USB sticks between the windows versions.

I can't think of buying a new machine, I dont want too. The last machine I purchased new was in 2008 and have no intention of buying a new one for the demands of Windows 11. It is true that I could in time take some of my old machines to the recycling centre but what would they recycle ? They would be of no use to anyone.

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Nothing wrong with people running loads of computers. Some people make model trains etc etc -- hobbies are hobbies. In any case sometimes those old machines are worth quite a bit to collectors --remember the old PET 1 computer !!!.

I still have an old Sony VAIO with petium IV chip running natively an XP system -- which BTW still far outperforms W10 running on much better hardware !!!! OK the old laptop can't run USB3 and the power consumption is hideous compared to modern laptops and it weighs far too much to be even considered a "luggable" but it's fun sometimes to see the old OS - and realize that as far as applications are concerned we haven't really advanced very much at all in 20 odd years.

E-commerce, streaming and Internet performance are all hugely improved as is video quality of TV's and monitors as well as Computer security but othewise the bog standard applications from Office 2007/2010 etc haven't really changed that much.

Even SKYPE/ZOOM etc which people regard as recent phenomena really aren't as good as the old FREE App - NET MEETING which back then worked really well -- hampered of course by the much poorer and slower Internet in those days. Who also can convince me that any e-mail system paid or otherwise is as good as the original OUTLOOK EXPRESS especially for individual HOME users.

I hope that the next few years SOFTWARE and APPS are improved beyond recognition --hardware has already advanced far beyond the point at which around 90% of typical computer users need it.

Cheers
jimbo

hardware has already advanced far beyond the point at which around 90% of typical computer users need it.

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So what they already have is more than adequate and probably will be for some years to come.

I think Win 11 will run on lots of PC's that it does not run on right at this very moment in time. Its way to early to make any conclusions right now folks. Relax take a chill pill. We are still in the very early stages of development for Windows 11 :)

unifex said:

why would anyone care what kind of OS they have?

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For many, that statement is absolutely true. However, some of us geeks embrace new features and fold them into our daily workflow in ways that make us far more efficient. For example, the Windows 10 virtual desktops feature is something I cannot live without. Having a Hypervisor is absolutely critical. Support for the latest hardware such as really fast NVMs helps me do things much faster, especially since I move a lot of data around every day. There is a lot more, but these are a few examples of things in Win 10 that I now can't live without. No doubt, the things that Win 11 brings to the table will be huge in my daily work routine. For example, I'm pretty sure that the ability to run Android apps will be a big deal for me personally.

I know many things can be obtained through 3rd party apps, but for me it's nice when it is just there in the OS without additional cost, especially since I run several machines.

This is not first nor last time there was a hardware-OS generation switch. Had to happen sooner or later. Us old-timers remember quite a few instances. My private journey started with Motorola and Z80, 8088/8086, 386/486, Pentium, Athlon/Phenom, AMD FX and first 3 Ryzen systems. At each generations. there was OS generation switch with some overlapping. Latest one was few years ago when I switched from 1st gen to 2nd and than 3gen Ryzen when W7 stopped working suddenly. With some juggling it may be possible but there's no point as W8/10 was much better for it giving better performance.
OS development is long and complicated and has to look and plan well in advance, what trends in HW and usability may be in next few years and still keep so-so compatibility. One just don't make an OS for past hardware but has to look forward or won't get anywhere.
On top of those, there were/are/will be user generation changes, each one demanding and expecting something else and different to keep up with times.
What I hear and could be heard over grapevine is that MS may relent a bit with some requirements and Intel (maybe even AMD) are working on microcode patches to meet some of those requirements but don't expect too much and for longer time.

@jimbo45

Personally, I never used Outlook Express. I did use Thunderbird for a while, but then I got tired of piles of old messages stored on my hard drives (or the need to spend time purging them). I switched to browser-based email - no additional program to run, no messages on my drives, much better security (malicious files do not get downloaded to my computer).

I don't recall using NetMeeting, but I doubt it had the capability for hosting meeting with 500+ attendees.

I also don't know what does it mean "the old OS outperforms Windows 10". In what sense? Can it transfer 40GB of photos from a USB drive to a hard drive way faster? I doubt that. What is then faster? The subjective feeling of how fast Windows open after you click a desktop icon? Can it support a 4K monitor? Probably not.

Anyway, I find it unfortunate that the concepts of "operating system", "graphical user interface", and "pre-installed applications" are now appearing to be merging into one "experience" and people are judging the new OS on in which menu the settings are and what kind of corners windows have. That's not the OS issues at all in my opinion (I find it actually completely irrelevant).

One can have a hobby keeping old computers, no problem with that. But one has to realize that old computers might not run the latest OS and they don't have to. One also needs to realize, that the mere fact of the new OS appearing on the market does not force anyone to do anything: you don't have to upgrade, you don't have to buy new hardware, you don't have to dump the old one. You might do any or all of those things, but I doubt the wisdom of attaching these actions to new product announcements.

FWIW: Thunderbird supports both Exchange and straight out IMAP too - the only thing you need is to make sure the email provider in question allows either direct Exchange acccess or IMAP access, and remove the local storage component, and poof - no more emails on your HD. IMAP support has been around for a very long time, and Exchange server support has been around for a while now too.

I use Tb Daily with several of the G=Suite accounts I have for the emails I don't need to check regularly (admin accounts, dump / catch-all accounts, etc.) while using a standalone apps for the main Google and G-Suite accounts I need to watch in more real time.

Your points about faster when comparing OSs is spot on - it's all subjective. As is choice of OS to begin with. I have a hobby keeping older computers (within reason) and use current OSs on them - just not always current *Microsoft* OSs on them. Why do I need 5 devices running the exact same OS for? I mean, that's wading into "Department of Redundancy Department" territory....

It is what it is.. this was going to happen sooner or later. MS will not continue to support old hardware forever. If one can't use 11 stick with 10.. it's going to continue to get support for four more years.. that gives people time to get newer hardware

Exactly :)

I thought about the enviromental impact before I read this thread.
I'm not an environmentalist, but the dumping of billions of PCs must be considered by Microsoft before they go ahead with this plan.

The fact is, some old hardware still works fine on current operating systems.
I'm still running some computers that are 12 years old or more.

Stigg said:

I thought about the enviromental impact before I read this thread.
I'm not an environmentalist, but the dumping of billions of PCs must be considered by Microsoft before they go ahead with this plan.

The fact is, some old hardware still works fine on current operating systems.
I'm still running some computers that are 12 years old or more.

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Hi there
No need to dump them -- they can be used for NAS servers, teaching machines, or donated to charity - loads of schools etc or 3rd world countries could use these. To learn basics of computing and Internet usage you don't need the latest sooper dooper hardware.

Cheers
jimbo

hsehestedt said:

For many, that statement is absolutely true. However, some of us geeks embrace new features and fold them into our daily workflow in ways that make us far more efficient. For example, the Windows 10 virtual desktops feature is something I cannot live without. Having a Hypervisor is absolutely critical. Support for the latest hardware such as really fast NVMs helps me do things much faster, especially since I move a lot of data around every day. There is a lot more, but these are a few examples of things in Win 10 that I now can't live without. No doubt, the things that Win 11 brings to the table will be huge in my daily work routine. For example, I'm pretty sure that the ability to run Android apps will be a big deal for me personally.

I know many things can be obtained through 3rd party apps, but for me it's nice when it is just there in the OS without additional cost, especially since I run several machines.

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Hi there

With modern hypervisors - ESXI, KVM, HYPER-V you can get VM's to run these days at almost bare metal speed -- you just need to passthru as much real hardware as possible (including a TPM if you have it). Emulating a TPM also hardly reduces the performance of a VM. With good HYPERVISOR design the actual HOST OS overhead is really tiny.

Cheers
jimbo

I just dumped about 9 old machines and they all worked

I guess I should put in my 2 cents on this issue.

I keep my systems fairly up-to-date, generally staying about one generation behind when buying a new computer, and buying the least expensive with "built-in" audio, video, etc.

So, you're thinking I'm at the low end of everything, but let me tell you how I get up to speed with the rest of the computing public . . .

At some point I buy the most up-to-date video card, sound card, RAM, SSD Drive, etc. I can afford. These peripherals will last through at least three upgrades before I'll need to upgrade them.

So, before I recycle the old computer, I yank out the extra peripherals and put them in the new computer. So far, this is the second computer for my graphics card and RAM (24 GB) and the third computer for my 500 GB SSD drive. I have also upgraded the CPU in this machine from an AMD 2300 to an AMD 2600.

This is a nice machine, it's as speedy as I need, and I can do whatever I want. I've also done my part by recycling the cast off machine. I don't consider I dumped it, because it went to one of my Senior Citizen students who needed it. I did the same when I needed to upgrade my HP 17" laptop; my Senior Citizen student doesn't know I'll never repossess her lappy. :) I guess I should tell her.

According to my recent analysis from NetMarketShare.com and MS numbers, there could be as many as 500 million (or more) Windows 7 PCs still in use. Anybody else amazed (and a little scared) by that number? See: Are Over Half-a-Billion Windows 7 PCs Still In Use?
Cheers!
=e=

Ed Tittel said:

According to my recent analysis from NetMarketShare.com and MS numbers, there could be as many as 500 million (or more) Windows 7 PCs still in use. Anybody else amazed (and a little scared) by that number? See: Are Over Half-a-Billion Windows 7 PCs Still In Use?
Cheers!
=e=

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Does it amaze me? No.. does it concern me?? No. If someone wants to take the risks that's up to them. It only concerns me if a business of gov entity uses it. That's a risk they shouldn't be taking

@BunnyJ: You make some good points. I was stunned -- stunned, I tell you -- to realize that there still could be so many active Windows 7 users out there right now. Case in point: last time I visited my opthamologist's office, I couldn't help but notice that all 12 of her PCs were still running Windows 7. I asked her "When do you plan to upgrade?" Her reply: I'm bringing in a new partner (she's about my age: 68; 69 next month) and will let him or her decide... Ouch! =e=