Why Has No One Mentioned The Prospect Of Dumping Millions Of Incompatible Machines ?

BunnyJ · Jul 20, 2021

Ed Tittel said:
@BunnyJ: You make some good points. I was stunned -- stunned, I tell you -- to realize that there still could be so many active Windows 7 users out there right now. Case in point: last time I visited my opthamologist's office, I couldn't help but notice that all 12 of her PCs were still running Windows 7. I asked her "When do you plan to upgrade?" Her reply: I'm bringing in a new partner (she's about my age: 68; 69 next month) and will let him or her decide... Ouch! =e=

If they're not connect to the internet it's Ok I guess. Small business would likely have to hire someone to do the upgrade and in some cases no one is either available or affordable.

Honestly,. nothing shocks me anymore,

CountMike · Jul 20, 2021

I don't see any reasons W11 would cause any more discarded PC than at any other Windows generation change.
As far as usage of PCs with W7 and earlier is concerned, that doesn't surprise me at all. I for instance have perfectly good running laptop with XP, another (reserve ) desktop with W7 and a friend running a wood sawmill machine with a 386 in it and custom CAM program in DOS.
I also believe that a PC should be running OS it was mainly designed for or at least same generation. Manufacturers are in no hurry to maintain drivers for newer OSs for their EOL products. Lastly, there's more (relatively) poor people that just can't afford to upgrade very often. Personally I always pass my obsolete PCs to somebody else who needs it and they are still good for few more years no matter which OS. As long as they could be maintained, they will be good for something.

uni_0n · Jul 20, 2021

But Microsoft said in 2015 that Windows 10 will be the last. If Gates had continued to be present at the company, Windows 11 would certainly not have existed, my opinion. I can't say anything good about Nadella.
But. Microsoft has already said that in some countries for Windows 11 will be able to be installed without requiring a TPM. I do not think that IT-admins and people with legacy devices rush to throw away their devices. I think that support for old drivers will be added, albeit a little, because it's the same Windows 10, . There should be some kind of peaceful solution.
These system requirements at the moment are absurd.
Microsoft should put them into recommended system requirements
And look for the minimum, should be too.

Bree · Jul 20, 2021

Ed Tittel said:
I was stunned -- stunned, I tell you -- to realize that there still could be so many active Windows 7 users out there right now. Case in point: last time I visited my opthamologist's office, I couldn't help but notice that all 12 of her PCs were still running Windows 7

Yes, I've spotted the same thing myself in similar locations (doctors' surgeries, etc.). Mind you, I do run two Win7 machines myself (purely for research, you understand

)

CountMike · Jul 20, 2021

uni_0n said:
But Microsoft said in 2015 that Windows 10 will be the last. If Gates had continued to be present at the company, Windows 11 would certainly not have existed, my opinion. I can't say anything good about Nadella.
But. Microsoft has already said that in some countries for Windows 11 will be able to be installed without requiring a TPM. I do not think that IT-admins and people with legacy devices rush to throw away their devices. I think that support for old drivers will be added, albeit a little, because it's the same Windows 10, . There should be some kind of peaceful solution.
These system requirements at the moment are absurd.
Microsoft should put them into recommended system requirements
And look for the minimum, should be too.

Actually, MS never said that W10 would be "Last Windows" like in "never another version", only that it will be continually updated and upgraded as opposite from previous policy of making Service Packs when it's warranted.

randyored · Jul 20, 2021

Bree said:
Yes, I've spotted the same thing myself in similar locations (doctors' surgeries, etc.). Mind you, I do run two Win7 machines myself (purely for research, of course )

I am using a Dell system only for my scanner. I would attach it to my Win10, but Visioneer NEVER develops scanner drivers. They always tell you to buy the latest version that supports the new OS.

randyored · Jul 20, 2021

I am running an AMD FX with 8 cores. It screams! My Windows insider PCs (1 AMD and 1 Intel) are running Win11.

Insider 1 : AMD Phenom II x4 - Flashback.... When I checked for updates, the AMD PC update popped up in red type (Your PC is not supported. You are at the end of service, install a clean version of Win10). I didn't. 2 days later, I logged on and was surprised that it had upgraded to Win11. No hacks or anything.

Insider 2 : Intel i5 Quad - Took some setup registry changes to get past the blocks. It then installed fine and had no problems.

For what I read online... These PCs will not be allowed to upgrade to the Win11 RTM version.

uni_0n · Jul 20, 2021

CountMike said:
Actually, MS never said that W10 would be "Last Windows" like in "never another version", only that it will be continually updated and upgraded as opposite from previous policy of making Service Packs when it's warranted.

Thank you for correcting that. But I do not like all these undertakings from the corporation ...

Josey Wales · Jul 20, 2021

There are still people using XP which is far worse the using Windows 7. A better use would be any DISTRO of Linux.

CountMike · Jul 21, 2021

uni_0n said:
Thank you for correcting that. But I do not like all these undertakings from the corporation ...

Although some times accidental such "Leaks" are quite common from all corporations. A bit of info, enough to peak interest in a "new and exciting" product (Car, phone, PC part, movie toaster?) while it's not finished enough to make and sell. Makes you think about it and picks up positive or negative comments so they have time to correct things or price. Somehow, mostly thru grapevine it usually becomes a "Fact" without facts. Also cheap advertising.

ish4d0w · Jul 21, 2021

rotis said:
Microsoft just wants to make more money for their hardware partners.
I cant think of any other reason.

I fully agree. This is pure greediness from Microsoft in my opinion. There is no reason why a 7th or even 4th generation Intel Core i5 processor wouldn't be able to run Windows 11, especially now that we know that it is almost identical to Windows 10 in terms of its core.

While I don't mind them dropping 32 bit support, I am mad at them for making TPM 2.0 a requirement and most specifically for dropping support for practically anything older than 3 years.

CountMike · Jul 21, 2021

ish4d0w said:
I fully agree. This is pure greediness from Microsoft in my opinion. There is no reason why a 7th or even 4th generation Intel Core i5 processor wouldn't be able to run Windows 11, especially now that we know that it is almost identical to Windows 10 in terms of its core.

While I don't mind them dropping 32 bit support, I am mad at them for making TPM 2.0 a requirement and most specifically for dropping support for practically anything older than 3 years.

I seriously doubt that many would switch PCs just to run W11 when W10 will be good for another few years at least

ish4d0w · Jul 21, 2021

CountMike said:
I seriously doubt that many would switch PCs just to run W11 when W10 will be good for another few years at least

Exactly! I just wrote the same in the other topic. Windows 10 will have support for 5 more years. But still it is kind of strange for them to require 8th generation or later processors.

I suppose a 4th, 5th, 6th or 7th generation processor will be still usable 5 years later. It's not like there is a huge performance difference between a 7th or 8th gen and users don't care about security. (in which regard, a 8th gen is just as vulnerable and the same patches are available for both)

So yes, it's great for Windows 10 to remain supported for at least 5 more years, and I personally believe that they might extend it just as they did with XP (that was the other case where they left a lot of users behind who couldn't/didn't want to upgrade to Vista/7/beyond). They might set up a refugee camp with Windows 10 too, by extending its support.

jimbo45 · Jul 21, 2021

Hi folks "Panic-o-nomics" -- there's literally zillions of older computers out there which serve brilliantly as "Stand alone Machines" - not everybody is connected to Internet all day (and night) long.

Besides if you can get W11 working on a machine currently you won't be forced to run "the latest" -- your current W11 won't suddenly stop working - and of course people can run VM's for as long as they want. Besides who knows - even 4 years (2025) is a Geological age in Computer hardware technology.

In addition Linux can run on virtually anything - and you can install VMWare, VBOX, or KVM on it so no prob running Windows 11 Virtual machines on those HOSTS either. ON KVM for example even on an MBR BIOS machine (no UEFI) you can create a UEFI VM with secure boot and an emulated v2 TPM and emulate also virtually any processor you like so even a "Dinosaur" age PC can run W11 -- how well --that's another issue of course but it's do-able. !!

Cheers
jimbo

CountMike · Jul 21, 2021

ish4d0w said:
Exactly! I just wrote the same in the other topic. Windows 10 will have support for 5 more years. But still it is kind of strange for them to require 8th generation or later processors.

I suppose a 4th, 5th, 6th or 7th generation processor will be still usable 5 years later. It's not like there is a huge performance difference between a 7th or 8th gen and users don't care about security. (in which regard, a 8th gen is just as vulnerable and the same patches are available for both)

So yes, it's great for Windows 10 to remain supported for at least 5 more years, and I personally believe that they might extend it just as they did with XP (that was the other case where they left a lot of users behind who couldn't/didn't want to upgrade to Vista/7/beyond). They might set up a refugee camp with Windows 10 too, by extending its support.

Probably all those security holes Intel had in some generations and some suspected holes in 1st gen Ryzen. With a TPM requirements I guess MS will tighten security very seriously. Performance is not in first plane as that much depends on CPU itself. There's wide variety of CPUs so some of let's say 6th gen can outperform some of 11th gen. Beside architecture there's also ever growing number of cores so that also has to be taken into account.

jimbo45 · Jul 21, 2021

Bree said:
Yes, I've spotted the same thing myself in similar locations (doctors' surgeries, etc.). Mind you, I do run two Win7 machines myself (purely for research, you understand )

You obviously haven't had your patience sorely tested by the British National Health service last time I was there loads of PC's in GP surgeries and Hospitals are still running XP !!! where they even have PC's at all -- still a load of surgeries doing Hand data for later uploading to some sort of system. !!!!!! (2021 !!!!!!! is it yet).

Cheers
jimbo

CountMike · Jul 21, 2021

jimbo45 said:
You haven't obviously had your patience sorely tested by the British National Health service - loads of PC's still running XP !!! where they even have PC's at all -- still a load of surgeries doing Hand data for later uploading to some sort of system. !!!!!! (2021 !!!!!!! is it yet).

Cheers
jimbo

I can bet that there's much more of those around here.

SIW2 · Jul 21, 2021

ish4d0w said:
I fully agree. This is pure greediness from Microsoft in my opinion. There is no reason why a 7th or even 4th generation Intel Core i5 processor wouldn't be able to run Windows 11, especially now that we know that it is almost identical to Windows 10 in terms of its core.

I have already posted what might be the reason.

How containers will transform Windows 10 in the next three years

Microsoft Azure is full of container technology. In the next few years, containers are going to play a key role in how you use Windows on the desktop.

www.zdnet.com

Microsoft's long-term strategy for securing Windows apps is to build security into the fundamental architecture of how those applications run on the desktop. And that way is through containerization.

-- your chip needs to support specific 64-bit virtualization features

SIW2 · Jul 21, 2021

I wouldnt be too surprised if the final win11 can install on older gear - together with a message that you wont get all the latest security features.

But, as win10 will still be around for quite, they might not. Will they or wont they ?

Atomic77 · Jul 25, 2021

I think I should be ok to run windows 11 when the time comes. my DELL AIO is like brand new and my HP Laptop I just got last year.

Why Has No One Mentioned The Prospect Of Dumping Millions Of Incompatible Machines ?

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