Will MS ever get the Start Menu Right?

Superfly · Sep 24, 2021

Mystere said:
You'd think... except that NIH syndrome is rampant.. Not Invented Here.

Nobody can stand using anyone elses code, unless it's a very base function that is so well understood that nobody wants to rewrite it (think standard libraries and specific functions)

Why is there no shared code among the different UI's, for instance (gnome, kde, etc..)

Yep.. Linux has too much diversity and too little collaboration..

unifex · Sep 24, 2021

I actually don't understand all the excitement about "open source". On one hand, sure, the fact that anyone can look into the source code may be beneficial for identifying security issues, bugs, and any kind of wrong doing. On the other hand, the community development means that there is never a finished product and no customer service (and no, I do not believe that any forum, even as good a this one, is a proper replacement for customer service). Of course, you could say that Microsoft's products are also never finished and their customer service is practically useless (which is why this forum is indispensable), but just the fact that Microsoft does something wrong does not mean that exaggerating the same behavior is any good. There are multiple examples of software companies providing very prompt and helpful customer service. Linux can be used in large companies (in fact, almost all computers provided to us by the university are Linux), but these companies usually have a strong IT infrastructure and employ system administrators who can deal with any issue that might arise. But I just don't see why would an average home user want to use a Linux machine.

cereberus · Sep 24, 2021

BunnyJ said:
First you have to define what right means. To me at least right is what each person thinks it is. So, no they may never get it right or perfect.

But,, I like it the way it is.

A rule of thumb is new version should be an improvement over old version, and it is totally bloody obvious new version has less features over W10 version i.e. the ooh ahh isn't it sexy attitude has dominated over the "wow, it has some really great new features" i.e. cosmetic bullshit over ACTUAL usefullness. This is really sad and MS should be ashamed.

BunnyJ · Sep 24, 2021

cereberus said:
A rule of thumb is new version should be an improvement over old version, and it is totally bloody obvious new version has less features over W10 version i.e. the ooh ahh isn't it sexy attitude has dominated over the "wow, it has some really great new features" i.e. cosmetic bullshit over ACTUAL usefullness. This is really sad and MS should be ashamed.

To you it's not been improved but to me it has. That's my point... some like the changes and some wont. IE, you can't please everyone.

And please cut out the vulgarity.. there's no need for it.

Mystere · Sep 24, 2021

cereberus said:
A rule of thumb is new version should be an improvement over old version, and it is totally bloody obvious new version has less features over W10 version i.e. the ooh ahh isn't it sexy attitude has dominated over the "wow, it has some really great new features" i.e. cosmetic bullshit over ACTUAL usefullness. This is really sad and MS should be ashamed.

There are many changes in WIndows 10, many serious and long overdue. Heightened security, for instance. TPM requirements will make it more difficult for ransomware and other kinds of malware to gain a foothold.

Another new feature are snap layouts and snap groups. This is indispensable for people with ultra-wide monitors like myself, but are still very useful even on typical 16:9 monitors.

Here's a feature that is long overdue, improved window management when docking and undocking. Windows 11 remembers where windows were when you undock and re-dock. That's been driving me insane for years.

How about running android apps? The new windows subsystem for android is really a nice new feature...

And then of course there's the performance improvements, which are very noticable.

My point here is it's not just glitz and baubles, there are real improvements that people will use... maybe none of those are important to you, to which i would say what IS important to you? Other than not changing anything because... you know, you don't like change?

Superfly · Sep 24, 2021

unifex said:
I actually don't understand all the excitement about "open source". On one hand, sure, the fact that anyone can look into the source code may be beneficial for identifying security issues, bugs, and any kind of wrong doing. On the other hand, the community development means that there is never a finished product and no customer service (and no, I do not believe that any forum, even as good a this one, is a proper replacement for customer service). Of course, you could say that Microsoft's products are also never finished and their customer service is practically useless (which is why this forum is indispensable), but just the fact that Microsoft does something wrong does not mean that exaggerating the same behavior is any good. There are multiple examples of software companies providing very prompt and helpful customer service. Linux can be used in large companies (in fact, almost all computers provided to us by the university are Linux), but these companies usually have a strong IT infrastructure and employ system administrators who can deal with any issue that might arise. But I just don't see why would an average home user want to use a Linux machine.

I tend to agree .. as much as I love Linux, the open-source community has to be properly managed. The GNU GPL does not provide for oversight. Thus you will see on my Github there is no open-source - many have requested it but there are subtle things like gaining MS full-trust or AV whitelisting for an app that may be rendered undesirable by them due to a fork...

BunnyJ · Sep 24, 2021

Superfly said:
I tend to agree .. as much as I love Linux, the open-source community has to be properly managed. The GNU GPL does not provide for oversight. Thus you will see on my Github there is no open-source - many have requested it but there are subtle things like gaining MS full-trust or AV whitelisting for an app that may be rendered undesirable by them due to a fork...

Open source is great for things like programming languages.. IE, Python. By being open source it's free for all to use and make/suggest changes which are taken seriously. That's just one example but there are many projects that are open source and are both free to use and contribute to, development wise.

Edwin · Sep 24, 2021

Who comes up with this stuff!?!?!?

...

Mystere · Sep 24, 2021

Edwin said:
Who comes up with this stuff!?!?!? ...

Sorry, my bad... :wink:

Bree · Sep 24, 2021

johnlgalt said:
I mean, Task Manager is gone from taskbar....

Ghot said:
Well, I manually put the Task Manager, back on the Taskbar. MS ain't the boss of me.

Not really a great loss. It's just as easy to right-click on Start as it was to right-click the Taskbar, each brings up a list where you can select Task Manager. In fact that's probably a good habit to develop if you plan on swapping between W10 and W11 machines as it works the same in both.

SlicEnDicE · Sep 25, 2021

johnlgalt said:
I mean, Task Manager is gone from taskbar

I use CTRL + SHIFT + ESC to open Task Manager. Why chase for menus with your mouse all over the place, when they run away to a different location after every major update?

Edwin · Sep 25, 2021

SlicEnDicE said:
...Why chase for menus...

Couldn't have said it better!
That's why the simplified right click menu is so lame.

SlicEnDicE · Sep 25, 2021

Edwin said:
Couldn't have said it better!
That's why the simplified right click menu is so lame.

Can it be turned off? I'm asking because I haven't even been looking.

I see no reason for the menu being like that on a desktop computer. On a toutch enabled mobile/portable device it is a different story though.

barman58 · Sep 25, 2021

One problem, I have my mouse in/under my right hand, and a ~~beer~~ coffee in my left so I have to find a space for my drink and set it down - then I have to perform finger gymnastics to find the keyboard. not That Short cut.

In 10 I just move the mouse slightly right click and i'm there

Definite step back in ergonomics

Edwin · Sep 25, 2021

SlicEnDicE said:
...I see no reason for the menu being like that on a desktop computer...

Exactly!
When I right click on any item, I wanna see all this sh stuff, in one click!!!
That's why I put it there..., been doing it that way since there was sliced bread!!!

cereberus · Sep 25, 2021

BunnyJ said:
To you it's not been improved but to me it has. That's my point... some like the changes and some wont. IE, you can't please everyone.

And please cut out the vulgarity.. there's no need for it.

In UK (and this is a British site) the term bloody is not considered vulgar but merely a mild ephitet. It is up to the moderators to decide if my language was excessivel

What people are not blinking getting is that they could use the new style BUT allow us to customise it as well! What possible reason could they have to REMOVE features. So sure, you will never please everyone totally, but they have gone out of their way to annoy a large fraction of users as you can see from replies here which are very divided.

If you want simple, don't customise - for the rest of us GIVE US BACK THE OPTIONS!

barman58 · Sep 25, 2021

The addition of customisation can slow down the system speed, and the coders are being pushed to speed everything up by the sales department -- bye Bye customisation :ffs:

It also makes the code neater and simpler to debug :wink:

A Guy · Sep 25, 2021

Sure it wasn't the bloody, it was the

A Guy

Edwin · Sep 25, 2021

I think, and I'm just spitballing here..., if MS keeps going in this direction, I can see the whole Win32 environment going down the toilet, and, as a traditional desktop user, that would p*ss me off.

barman58 · Sep 25, 2021

Edwin said:
I think, and I'm just spitballing here..., if MS keeps going in this direction, I can see the whole Win32 environment going down the toilet, and, as a traditional desktop user, that would p*ss me off.

Bloody Right!