Will MS ever get the Start Menu Right?

Winuser

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Apparently not. The Home version lacks Group Policy, a couple of other features like that which I don't recall since I don't use Home, and has no control over updates. That's it.
I didn't word my post correctly. I was referring to the Enterprise version as having no fancy bells and whistles as compared to the version (be it home or Pro) that most small business's and average user run on their computers.
 

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Winuser

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Not really as there would be no advantage to Microsoft having to completely different forms of Windows - they will make the system meet the requirements of the Business's and take out things to make them more suitable for Home use -

If they had a true customisable version for the enthusiast market the real unit cost to the individual would be way too high for those who normally pay nothing or a subsidised price with the hardware.

We have all got too used to the price we pay and complain loudly if we ever have to pay the subsidised price never mind what the true price of a fully customisable windows built from the ground up would be

In any case there is no financial incentive for Microsoft to develop a special customisable version- if the paying customers want more security, control and non customisable Windows OS that's what everyone will get

It's not ideal but Microsoft are not philanthropists they are a business :(
I see it differently. IMHO MS has already separated the Enterprise versions so adding the option for us to customize shouldn't be a problem. Basically what they did was remove some options that were already available in Windows 10.
 

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barman58

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Who pays for the changes and microsoft having to maintain the customisable os? not the business customers - and the enthusiasts would be better off as they are rather than paying the real price for the custom OS - which would be hundreds of dollars a copy at a minimum more if it did not sell well
 

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Winuser

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Who pays for the changes and microsoft having to maintain the customisable os? not the business customers - and the enthusiasts would be better off as they are rather than paying the real price for the custom OS - which would be hundreds of dollars a copy at a minimum more if it did not sell well
Who paid for the previous version that we could customize? I think we should just agree that we disagree.
 

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barman58

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The customisable version was paid for, by the business's then they asked for it to not be as customisable, so microsoft made the OS less customisable to give them what they asked for - this became to Windows 11 OS for everyone, those who paid full price and those that didn't
 

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Winuser

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The customisable version was paid for, by the business's then they asked for it to not be as customisable, so microsoft made the OS less customisable to give them what they asked for - this became to Windows 11 OS for everyone, those who paid full price and those that didn't
The main customizing people want is to move the Taskbar to the top, right or left side of the desk and/or customize the start menu. I would like to get rid of the wasted space that the Recommended takes up. I don't see this as a major financial lose for Microsoft or any companies. There are other things user would like to change but the Taskbar and Start Menu are the main two. If third party software can allow us to customize Windows why can't MS? Like I said we should just agree that we disagree and leave it at that.
 

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Mystere

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The main customizing people want is to move the Taskbar to the top, right or left side of the desk and/or customize the start menu. I would like to get rid of the wasted space that the Recommended takes up. I don't see this as a major financial lose for Microsoft or any companies. There are other things user would like to change but the Taskbar and Start Menu are the main two. If third party software can allow us to customize Windows why can't MS? Like I said we should just agree that we disagree and leave it at that.

And i'm sure that will come as Windows 11 evolves. Remember, Windows 10 didn't have everything either in its first version.

In software, when you rewrite something, you typically release what's called a Minimum Viable Product, which you then evolve as time goes on, adding in features that they may not have had the time to develop. That's what happened with Windows Vista, 7, 8, 8.1 and 10 and there is no reason to think it won't be true in 11.
 

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Winuser

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And i'm sure that will come as Windows 11 evolves. Remember, Windows 10 didn't have everything either in its first version.

In software, when you rewrite something, you typically release what's called a Minimum Viable Product, which you then evolve as time goes on, adding in features that they may not have had the time to develop. That's what happened with Windows Vista, 7, 8, 8.1 and 10 and there is no reason to think it won't be true in 11.
I do hope you are correct. I know MS can't make a completely 100% customizable version of Windows 11. It would be nice if MS would give us the option to move the task bar to were we feel it should be and the option to change the Start Menu. The Taskbar would be for other user than me. I'm not only use to having the Taskbar in the center but I now prefer it being in the center. As far as the start Menu goes I would like to be able to reduce the size by eliminating the Recommended section.
 

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Mystere

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I'm struggling to recognize anything in this list that would actually be useful to me ;). What exactly are snap layouts and how are they useful? Why would I need to run Android apps on my desktop? (a developer might, but I'm not a developer ...). Which is not to say these features are not useful to someone, they do seem to be useful to you, right?

Interesting to know that you don't find better security and improved performance useful. And here I thought those were things everyone could benefit from.

I guess it didn't occur to me that anyone would want to increase their odds of having their computer destroyed by ransomware, or enjoyed worse performance. My bad.
 

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SlicEnDicE

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Emacs pfffff...true programmers use VIM. ;)
...or is it just me stuck in the app because I can't figure out how to exit the app...😂
 

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unifex

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Emacs pfffff...true programmers use VIM. ;)
...or is it just me stuck in the app because I can't figure out how to exit the app...😂
I'm not a programmer :cool:
 

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BunnyJ

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barman58

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I remember the time when VIM meant something else - at the time when the last standalone wordperfect [non windows] was released I was at the UK launch party / event, the developers were all part of an anti microsoft group called VIM cannot recall what it officially stood for It was probably the sam VIM, but everyone including the developers themselves used it to mean Vendors Ignoring Microsoft, WP dos like a lot of the vendors did not last long ;)
 

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unifex

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Interesting to know that you don't find better security and improved performance useful. And here I thought those were things everyone could benefit from.

I guess it didn't occur to me that anyone would want to increase their odds of having their computer destroyed by ransomware, or enjoyed worse performance. My bad.
Do you have any data to support the claim of "improved performance"? Let's say, I calculate an integral in Mathematica that takes an hour. Will running the same task on the same hardware but with Windows 11 cut that time down in any appreciable fashion?
 

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LeLibran

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Do you have any data to support the claim of "improved performance"? Let's say, I calculate an integral in Mathematica that takes an hour. Will running the same task on the same hardware but with Windows 11 cut that time down in any appreciable fashion?
Can an operating system directly improve the performance of a mathematical function programmed in a third party application? Wouldn't that be the role of the Mathematica developers?
 

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unifex

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Can an operating system directly improve the performance of a mathematical function programmed in a third party application? Wouldn't that be the role of the Mathematica developers?
@Mystere was surprised that I found his argument unconvincing and in particular he wondered why would I not be interested in improved performance. I gave an example of what I understand under performance. I am pretty sure that the Windows version has nothing to do with it. Hence my lack of excitement at the next iteration of the OS.
 

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dbartenstein

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Define "right"......
 

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unifex

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BunnyJ

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Easy - fully customizable so that anyone can make it their own :cool:
Gee.. I hope you put that suggestion into MS to consider.. oh and are you going to help out with the programming of that??
 

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unifex

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Gee.. I hope you put that suggestion into MS to consider.. oh and are you going to help out with the programming of that??
It was fully customizable in Windows 2K, so I don't see what the problem is (apart from the aforementioned push from paying customers - big companies sysadmins - to lock it all down).
 

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