Cloning and backup question(s)

I have W11 home 23H2 on an NVME SSD drive and would like to create a clone to experiment and trial some rather delicate software. (i.e. do some upgrades and see if it's fit for production use). This might take a week of testing during which I need both "production" W11 and it's "testing" W11 clone bootable.

So I cloned the SSD to a hard disk (boot Puppy linux and use dd for a sector by sector copy) and, encountered a "signature collision". I understand what that is now but I would have to remove the SSD to boot the hard drive. Sitting under the CPU cooler makes it even more difficult, and I can't seem to just disable the SSD in the BIOS/setup either.

I have Macrium (the old free version at the moment) installed and thought I'd just restore an image to "new hardware", the hard drive but alas... this feature isn't part of the free version. It's a bit unclear if the paid version would suit my purposes here. I want both installations bootable and especially the "production" W11 undisturbed by the testing. And the "Fix boot problems" feature doesn't work because the cloned hard drive isn't visible (perhaps winpe also can't handle a duplicate drive signature so it's offline as in W11).

Is there another tool that will change the hard drive signature and modify the (also cloned) EFI system boot files to allow it to boot? Would the paid Macrium work this way?

Bring it online in windows disk management. Windows will change the sig on the disk that has just been brought online..

Then fix the bcd entry on the newly onlined disk using bcdboot command.

It is quick to do and not difficult.

for example if the windows partition on the newly onlined disk is G

and you have assigned Z to the esp partition on the newly onlined disk

at admin cmd prompt

bcdboot g:\windows /s z:

( that is to add an entry for windows on G to the bcd store on Z )

alternatively you could use the device path of the esp partition on the newly onlined disk if you cant be bothered assigning it a letter.

for example

bcdboot g:\windows /s \Device\HarddiskVolume6

Have you done it yet. Takes only a few seconds.

There's no entry for the clone just: the SSD and Macrium... :-(

C:\Windows\System32>bcdedit /enum

Windows Boot Manager
--------------------
identifier {bootmgr}
device partition=\Device\HarddiskVolume1
path \EFI\Microsoft\Boot\bootmgfw.efi
description Windows Boot Manager
locale en-US
inherit {globalsettings}
default {current}
resumeobject {276ed21b-41af-11ee-98f7-f2ded35d2c71}
displayorder {current}
{7dee93cc-20f1-11ef-8ed9-60e9aa1ff7d5}
toolsdisplayorder {memdiag}
timeout 10

Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier {current}
device partition=C:
path \Windows\system32\winload.efi
description Windows 11
locale en-US
inherit {bootloadersettings}
recoverysequence {276ed21d-41af-11ee-98f7-f2ded35d2c71}
displaymessageoverride Recovery
recoveryenabled Yes
isolatedcontext Yes
allowedinmemorysettings 0x15000075
osdevice partition=C:
systemroot \Windows
resumeobject {276ed21b-41af-11ee-98f7-f2ded35d2c71}
nx OptIn
bootmenupolicy Standard

Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier {7dee93cc-20f1-11ef-8ed9-60e9aa1ff7d5}
device ramdisk=[C:]\boot\macrium\WinREFiles\media\sources\boot.wim,{ramdiskoptions}
path \windows\system32\boot\winload.efi
description Macrium Reflect System Recovery
osdevice ramdisk=[C:]\boot\macrium\WinREFiles\media\sources\boot.wim,{ramdiskoptions}
systemroot \Windows
detecthal Yes
winpe Yes

C:\Windows\System32>

Oh wait... this is the ESP on the NVME... How to say... use the disk 3 ESP?

Hmmmm.... F12 takes me to the (??) BIOS boot menu and there's an entry for the clones hard drive, so boot that and :

C:\Windows\System32>bcdedit /enum

Windows Boot Manager
--------------------
identifier {bootmgr}
device partition=\Device\HarddiskVolume1
path \EFI\Microsoft\Boot\bootmgfw.efi
description Windows Boot Manager
locale en-US
inherit {globalsettings}
default {current}
resumeobject {276ed21b-41af-11ee-98f7-f2ded35d2c71}
displayorder {current}
toolsdisplayorder {memdiag}
timeout 30

Windows Boot Loader
-------------------
identifier {current}
device partition=C:
path \Windows\system32\winload.efi
description Windows 11
locale en-US
inherit {bootloadersettings}
recoverysequence {276ed21d-41af-11ee-98f7-f2ded35d2c71}
displaymessageoverride Recovery
recoveryenabled Yes
isolatedcontext Yes
allowedinmemorysettings 0x15000075
osdevice partition=C:
systemroot \Windows
resumeobject {276ed21b-41af-11ee-98f7-f2ded35d2c71}
nx OptIn
bootmenupolicy Standard

C:\Windows\System32>


partition=C: seems to point back to the NVME SSD because I'm seeing the files in C. I need to make that partition=G: ? Which, is the hard drive's clone of the windows partition drive letter. Those files are as expected on G: .. as of the cloning a week ago. but that's not the C: drive.

Why? I already explained how to update the bcd store on the other disk.

What is the point of looking at it?

you would need to load it using the store switch

if the device path is \Device\HarddiskVolume6

bcdedit -store \\?\GLOBALROOT\Device\HarddiskVolume6\EFI\Microsoft\Boot\bcd

or if you have assigned letter Z to the other esp partion

bcdedit -store Z:\EFI\Microsoft\Boot\bcd

So I used:
bcdboot G:\Windows /s \Device\HarddiskVolume3
"3" because that's the drive number in Disk Management but I see above Volume1 seems to refer to the NVME SSD which Disk Management is calling drive number 5 actually. And I can't seem to assign a drive letter to the ESP on the hard drive. So.... how do I refer to it?

the device path is not the drive number ( whatever that means )

you can find it easily with any decent partition manager




Or you could use \Device\Harddisk1\Partition1 if you are sure the esp partition is disk 1 partition 1.

bcdboot G:\Windows /s \Device\Harddisk1\Partition1

Well, now, bcdedit /enum is showing the on the hard drive but it's booting the SSD. The bcdboot command didn't seem to work but perhaps \Device\HarddiskVolume3 doesn't refer to the hard drive's ESP. There wasn't an error. How is "Volume6" defined? I doesn't seem to be the drive number from Disk Management. So what is it?

How is "Volume6" defined?

Click to expand...

it is a symbolic link. For your purpose it is an alias for the disk and partition id, similar to the way a drive letter is an alias for the disk and partition id.

if enthusiasts are interested they can poke around with winobj WinObj - Sysinternals




but any decent partition manager will show the device paths. Have you read my previous posts? Everything you need is there with screenshots.

As I explained in my previous post if you know for sure that the esp is disk 1 partition 1 you could do this way instead

bcdboot G:\Windows /s \Device\Harddisk1\Partition1

Installed Disk Genius for the proper volume path. Ok. It's time for bed but I was seeing the options to boot the hard drive, tried it but it didn't start. Black screens and a mouse pointer with the busy/spinning circle for 15 minutes. I'll look more later. Of course, I can boot the SSD (running now).

Looking at your requirements, there is a much easier way to do what you want.

I would create a virtual hard drive (.vhdx) then initialise it as gpt (assuming uefi pc), then clone main OS to vhd.

Then it is a simple step to make a boot entry for vhd. Lets assume vhdx is connected as drive F.

BCDEDIT F:\windows /p /d

No disk clashes - works EVERY TIME.

Preferably put .vhdx file on a second drive.

If you want to delete 2nd OS - just delete.vhdx and remove boot entry using msconfig.

I don't really know what a virtual disk is...

Along with a test environment, I was also trying to prove I can backup and restore images of the windows installation. So far... my backups don't restore like I thought. So, I have to understand all this much better.

TurtleInTheSky said:

I don't really know what a virtual disk is...

Along with a test environment, I was also trying to prove I can backup and restore images of the windows installation. So far... my backups don't restore like I thought. So, I have to understand all this much better.

Click to expand...

Read tutorials on tenforums.com

cereberus said:

Looking at your requirements, there is a much easier way to do what you want.

I would create a virtual hard drive (.vhdx) then initialise it as gpt (assuming uefi pc), then clone main OS to vhd.

Then it is a simple step to make a boot entry for vhd. Lets assume vhdx is connected as drive F.

BCDEDIT F:\windows /p /d

No disk clashes - works EVERY TIME.

Preferably put .vhdx file on a second drive.

If you want to delete 2nd OS - just delete.vhdx and remove boot entry using msconfig.

Click to expand...

Or even bcdedit !!! bcdedit /delete {identfier}. bcdedit without parameters lists the boot os'es. copy from the screen and paste into the command to avoid making mistakes.

Cheers
jimbo

Thanks jimbo. I' think I've figured out the bcd parts to point to and start available installations. But my clone of the "main" ssd boot drive (all partitions) won't boot. It hangs with a black screen, never see the windows logo, desktop or anything. Boot log at the end shows:
BOOTLOG_NOT_LOADED \SystemRoot\System32\drivers\dxgkrnl.sys
BOOTLOG_NOT_LOADED \SystemRoot\System32\drivers\dxgkrnl.sys
BOOTLOG_NOT_LOADED \SystemRoot\System32\drivers\dxgkrnl.sys



BOOTLOG_NOT_LOADED \SystemRoot\System32\drivers\dxgkrnl.sys

I see lots of cloning programs and in videos, people always remove the source hardware before booting into the clone. i.e.

Video demonstrates Samsung Data Migration (now part of the Samsung Magician app), DiskGenius, Clonezilla Live, and the Linux DD command.

Why is that? Simply point to what to boot from.