Defrag/Trim


Slinky,

You've removed the Triggers section from your TS Task export. That is unnecessary.
- The Triggers section was also missing from that sample you had worked on. It had no Triggers because it did not need any. System maintenance & the defrag-optimize UI initiated the task each time.
- Without a Triggers section, the task will never run on a schedule.

When you set up your own schedule for the task to run, your exported xml will have these lines in place of the current <Triggers /> {which means - No triggers defined}
Code:
<Triggers>
    <CalendarTrigger>
      <StartBoundary>2016-08-23T09:00:00</StartBoundary>
      <Enabled>true</Enabled>
      <ScheduleByWeek>
        <DaysOfWeek>
          <Monday />
        </DaysOfWeek>
        <WeeksInterval>1</WeeksInterval>
      </ScheduleByWeek>
    </CalendarTrigger>
  </Triggers>
Noting, of course, that your particular lines will reflect your own scheduling decisions. My own defrag task runs at 09:00 on Mondays.

Whilst it does not cause any problem in this case, you should normally delete the whole UserID line from any TS task definition that you are passing across to another computer.
<UserId>S-1-5-18</UserId>
This refers to the System 'user' and its ref number is the same on all computers which is why it works.
- Deleting the whole of that line forces the recipient to choose which user to use for its authorization.
- Failure to delete the whole of that line will normally cause an error during task importation.


All the best,
Denis
 

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Hi Denis,

Sorry I can't respond more fully now but suffice it to say I did not remove anything from the script other than the URI line. To be honest you got a bit too technical for me in the rest of your comments, I wonder if you can reword it please? Speak later..
 

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Have you set up a schedule for your new task?
Have you exported the task definition as an xml file by right-clicking on it & selecting Export?

The answer to at least one of those questions is No.

Denis
 

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- Windows 10 Version 2004 and was apparently corrected later on.
Defragger bug defrags SSD Drives too often [Ver 2004] - BleepingComputer
Here is an article by Günter Born explaining that the problem of Windows 10 version 2004 defragging SSDs too often was indeed fixed in the KB4571744 preview update and fixed for everyone in the KB4571756 update on Patch Tuesday, September 8, 2020.

As for Vadim Sterkin's claim that the "mysterious" parameter $ is the "actual culprit", no. Just no. All that factually does is it tells defrag.exe that it is being called from the Task Scheduler causing it to run with background I/O priority. (I/O priority is not the same as process priority─the parameter h is used to set the process priority to normal.) On a side note, one way to prevent Windows from defragging an SSD every month is to use DymaxIO (former Diskeeper) with HyperFast SSD optimization technology.
 

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Have you set up a schedule for your new task?
Have you exported the task definition as an xml file by right-clicking on it & selecting Export?

The answer to at least one of those questions is No.

Denis
Hi Dennis, I did write a very long winded reply here which I've since deleted. Thankfully I think I do understand what you were driving at in post #121 above. See post #127 below...
 
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@hdmi said:

Here is an article by Günter Born explaining that the problem of Windows 10 version 2004 defragging SSDs too often was indeed fixed in the KB4571744 preview update and fixed for everyone in the KB4571756 update on Patch Tuesday, September 8, 2020.

Thank you but I don't believe it's relevant to this topic. Both myself and the OP are having these issues with Windows 11 so something has been broken for some of us along the way. I don't believe MS have released a patch for W11 just yet hence this discussion.
 

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@Try3

I sent you two identical PM's, you can ignore them both, I think the penny has just dropped after sending them. Better late than never!! (y) In your post #121 you said

When you set up your own schedule for the task to run, your exported xml will have these lines in place of the current <Triggers />

This really confused me so I just opened Task Scheduler and exported my TRIM-SSD Task as an xml to try and figure it out. Where I went wrong initially was I uploaded my TRIM-SSD.xml as a zip file immediately after I had edited it in notepad and before I had imported it back into Task Scheduler, hence why it had no schedule. I did set up the schedule correctly after I'd imported it back into TS.

Here's the all important bit you were referring too: Mine is set to run weekly on Friday at 01:15 (y)

<Triggers>
<CalendarTrigger>
<StartBoundary>2022-01-07T01:15:00+00:00</StartBoundary>
<Enabled>true</Enabled>
<ScheduleByWeek>
<DaysOfWeek>
<Friday />
</DaysOfWeek>
<WeeksInterval>1</WeeksInterval>
</ScheduleByWeek>
</CalendarTrigger>
</Triggers>
 

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Understood.

Denis
 

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Thank you but I don't believe it's relevant to this topic. Both myself and the OP are having these issues with Windows 11 so something has been broken for some of us along the way. I don't believe MS have released a patch for W11 just yet hence this discussion.
It is relevant in the particular sense that it may still help to understand the fact that Microsoft took ages to even acknowledge the problem [on Windows 10 version 2004], let alone provide a fix for everyone. But, to anyone who has read through the various comments having been posted below Scott Hanselman's article, this IMO should not come as a complete surprise... So, I doubt that Microsoft will listen to user feedback about this problem on Windows 11, which appears to be similar (yet different) than the one that Microsoft has fixed on Windows 10. I think at least it would be fair to conclude that Microsoft is making it very dificult for people to believe that listening to user feedback is high on the list of Microsoft's priorities.

FWIW, here is an old article that may help to further explain why SSD fragmentation matters:

There also exists an even much older article about that, albeit unfortunately all the pics appear to have gone missing in the carwash:
 

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It is relevant in the particular sense that it may still help to understand the fact that Microsoft took ages to even acknowledge the problem [on Windows 10 version 2004], let alone provide a fix for everyone.
I think we all know that Microsoft can be slow to implement fixes which is why we sometimes have to get creative with solutions.

I appreciate you posting those links but personally speaking, I've read so many similar articles by people who claim to know all about this subject that eventually I've have to make up my own mind. Other members were telling me to do this long ago earlier on in this thread. Vadim Sterkin made the same comment in his blog.
As for Vadim Sterkin's claim that the "mysterious" parameter $ is the "actual culprit", no. Just no. All that factually does is it tells defrag.exe that it is being called from the Task Scheduler causing it to run with background I/O priority.
Have you discussed this with Vadim and argued your opinion? He's open to intelligent debate on the subject. If Vadim is indeed wrong don't you think he should be put right for all our sakes?

To borrow a quote from Vadim Sterkin's blog

4. Attention is paid to each comment​

I read absolutely all the comments of readers and respond to the vast majority of them. When our opinions with readers on a particular issue differ, I certainly state my point of view in response comments.

Furthermore, I have not ignored unsubstantiated allegations and untrue allegations. In such cases, I always ask readers to argue their opinion or provide evidence of the fallacy of their statements from a technical point of view.
 
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@Slinky

No, I haven't, and, at first I wasn't going to bother to reply to this thread either. I mean, there's just way too much useless drivel going on in these types of discussions about why Microsoft never listens, it's all really nothing but old news to me.


Diskeeper was the company that developed the built-in defragger of Windows before the company was acquired by Condusiv. So, the 2010 article I linked (the one with the missing pics) is from the era that was the onset of when Diskeeper 2009 version 13 had slowly started to gain some popularity. During that same era, with the advent of Windows 7 and consumer SSDs, SSDkeeper had come out, and, HyperFast was released as an optional addon for Diskeeper 2009 so that anyone who already owned a license for Diskeeper 2009 didn't have to buy a license for SSDkeeper, as the HyperFast addon offered the same functionality as SSDkeeper.

One of the key differences between the HyperFast feature and the Windows built-in defragger is that the former uses a technology known as InvisiTasking. InvisiTasking is actually designed to be used for advanced server optimization. It is what makes it possible for the optimization process to keep running continuously as a background service without ever slowing the system down, as the service uses only the specific part of system resources that would otherwise be left unused. As a result from this, it can prevent fragmentation before it happens. That is, excepting only at times when it sees that not enough system resources are available in order for it to achieve that goal, in which case it has no other choice but to let fragmentation happen to some extent. Or if it sees that no system resources are available whatsoever, then it pauses its activities completely until enough system resources are available again for it to be able to resume its optimization strategy.

In essence, it also means that preventing/eliminating the kind of fragmentation that would otherwise cause, or currently is causing, the most severe reduction in I/O performance is fundamental to this specific type of optimization technology. As someone who holds a formal degree in IT and who also happens to be a trained Java EE software developer (Java EE, or Jakarta EE is a whole set of technologies that are still widely used by the largest corporations worldwide), I think I know a thing or two about how storage works. So, instead of arguing about that which is essentially the low-intelligence version of Diskeeper, I have better things to do, but anyway. I had a good laugh reading through 7 pages of strong entertainment! :)
 
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No, I haven't, and, at first I wasn't going to bother to reply to this thread either. I mean, there's just way too much useless drivel going on in these types of discussions about why Microsoft never listens, it's all really nothing but old news to me.
Useless drivel to some perhaps, but this is an open forum for all people regardless of skill set is it not? Like you say.., you didn't have to bother joining in and quite frankly I don't know why you did. Clearly as someone who claims to have a formal degree in IT your skill set must be far too advanced for us mere mortals. It's been said several times now in this discussion that there are too many 'off topic' posts and yours is no different. You've rambled on for three very long paragraphs about a piece of software which solves nothing for me and the OP. Mind you I quite agree, there is too much useless drivel and no doubt you'll want to make it stretch to 8 pages. :wink:
 
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Useless drivel to some perhaps, but this is an open forum for all people regardless of skill set is it not?
I was mainly referring to the typical back-and-forth that went on between Scott and Vadim, albeit there are a few similarities between a lot of what's been posted on here and it. As for the remark about the parameter $ being the "actual culprit", the (also actual) reality is that Vadim never bothered to elaborate on this in the article he wrote (but I also don't blame him for that). Either way, the only thing "mysterious" about it is in the way that defrag.exe responds to it, which is merely due to the fact that defrag.exe is proprietary and closed source so we'll probably never know what the real culprit is, as the words "proprietary" and "closed source" auto translate to the fact that almost everything else about it can be called "mysterious" too. :LOL:
Like you say.., you didn't have to bother joining in and quite frankly I don't know why you did.
See above. Also, Vadim talks about "evidence" so, if evidence is so important to him, then where's his evidence of what the actual culprit is? (Not that he ever made the direct claim that he has the evidence about that specific part IIRC, but you get the point.) I can show you compelling evidence to support my claim that Mickeysoft are mostly nothing but a bunch of amateurs.
your skill set must be far too advanced for us mere mortals.
If you say so. Then yes, it must be that... PRECISELY. 🤣
It's been said several times now in this discussion that there are too many 'off topic' posts and yours is no different. You've rambled on for three very long paragraphs about a piece of software which solves nothing for me and the OP. Mind you I quite agree, there is too much useless drivel and no doubt you'll want to make it stretch to 8 pages. :wink:
A temporary "workaround" has already been offered by Vadim. That is, in spite of the fact we still don't know if there's an actual problem or not─the part I wrote about a piece of software should help to clarify this fact. 😛
 

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Update - Task has run again on it's weekly schedule but nothing done to the drives.
From what I have been told MS are now looking into why Win 11 is doing things differently than win 10 does when it come to defrag/retrim of SSD drives.

task.jpg



opt.jpg
 

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From what I have been told MS are now looking into why Win 11 is doing things differently than win 10 does when it come to defrag/retrim of SSD drives.
I didn't know that.

What were the arguments in your ScheduledDefrag task in Windows 11? Or can't you answer that since reverting to Windows 10? I was wondering if it used a volume GUID argument instead of a drive letter argument [which can be caused by partitioning a disk after Windows installation].

All the best,
Denis
 

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What were the arguments in your ScheduledDefrag task in Windows 11? Or can't you answer that since reverting to Windows 10? I was wondering if it used a volume GUID argument instead of a drive letter argument [which can be caused by partitioning a disk after Windows installation].

That was something I thought of but the arguments are exactly the same in 10 and 11.
Disks were originally formatted/partitioned during clean install of Win 10.
I took the Defrag task files from system32/tasks then compared them with WinMerge and they are identical.

Both are:
<Arguments>\\?\Volume{dce59678-5b6c-4937-8df1-17ac65c9ae34}\ \\?\Volume{4f1df9be-036e-4561-abfe-15dfeec9a0c7}\ -h -o -$</Arguments>
 

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Kev,

Slinky also had your symptoms.
Slinky also has that default task with a volume GUID argument [he hasn't yet tracked down the GUID because I said it did not seem important, foolish me].
But Slinky partitioned the OS disk after Windows' installation.

My Win11 computer does not have your symptoms.
My [sole] Win11 & my Win10 computers have these arguments
-c -h -o -$

I once found my Win7 computer was not doing defrag at all [according to the defrag-optimize UI, I did not know how to check Event logs in those days].
I had partitioned my disk after Windows' installation.
The default task argument was to a volume. I used DiskPart [& poss MountVol?] and identified that the volume GUID referred to the whole disk, pre-partition.

I can't draw any particular conclusion from these mixed experiences but thought I should explain why I asked.

All the best,
Denis
 

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Kev,

Slinky also had your symptoms.
Slinky also has that default task with a volume GUID argument [he hasn't yet tracked down the GUID because I said it did not seem important, foolish me].
But Slinky partitioned the OS disk after Windows' installation.
Did you checkout my Disk Part info I added to my OneDrive?

Denis I'm afraid your last sentence is wrong. During the clean install of Windows 11 I wiped all partitions on my SSD drive. The screenshot below shoes how Windows partitioned my SSD during the install process The 'unallocated space' was setup shortly after by Samsung Magician for 'Over Provisioning' which it is claimed prolongs the life span of SSD's.

Screenshot 2022-01-10 094312.png
 
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My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS Prime B350 Plus
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 5 1600 AM4 Hex Core Processor 3200GHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS Prime B350 Plus
    Memory
    Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2x8 GB) DDR4 2666 MHz C16 XMP 2.0 High Performance Desktop Memory Kit - Red
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVidia Geforce GTX 1050 Ti
    Sound Card
    Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    DELL U2412M
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1200
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 850 EVO SSD 120Gb
    Seagate 2 TB
    PSU
    EVGA SuperNOVA 750 G2, 80+ GOLD 750W, Fully Modular
    Case
    Chieftec Scorpio TX 10BWD Mid Tower
    Cooling
    Arctic F8 PWM Rev.2
    Keyboard
    Logitech K520
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Master 3
    Internet Speed
    72.35 Mbps Down - 18.53 Mbps Up
    Browser
    Microsoft Edge
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
1 Yes.
2 Your second para disagrees with me then explains that I was correct. After installing Windows, you installed Samsung magician and that created that unallocated partition. Therefore, the partitioning was done after Windows was installed.

All the best,
Denis
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 Home x64 Version 23H2 Build 22631.3296
1 Yes.
2 Your second para disagrees with me then explains that I was correct. After installing Windows, you installed Samsung magician and that created that unallocated partition. Therefore, the partitioning was done after Windows was installed.

All the best,
Denis
Maybe I misunderstood you? I thought you were still referring to that default task with a volume GUID argument but that doesn't show in Disk Part. How would that relate to the unallocated space? How could I even check?
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    ASUS Prime B350 Plus
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 5 1600 AM4 Hex Core Processor 3200GHz
    Motherboard
    ASUS Prime B350 Plus
    Memory
    Corsair Vengeance LPX 16 GB (2x8 GB) DDR4 2666 MHz C16 XMP 2.0 High Performance Desktop Memory Kit - Red
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVidia Geforce GTX 1050 Ti
    Sound Card
    Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    DELL U2412M
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1200
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 850 EVO SSD 120Gb
    Seagate 2 TB
    PSU
    EVGA SuperNOVA 750 G2, 80+ GOLD 750W, Fully Modular
    Case
    Chieftec Scorpio TX 10BWD Mid Tower
    Cooling
    Arctic F8 PWM Rev.2
    Keyboard
    Logitech K520
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Master 3
    Internet Speed
    72.35 Mbps Down - 18.53 Mbps Up
    Browser
    Microsoft Edge
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender

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