It's Official. Windows 11 is Vista 2.0

BunnyJ · Oct 14, 2021

Berton said:
After reading a lot of this thread I can only offer that we don't buy the software, only the license to use it and the media it is stored on or the downloaded file. Running the software without complying with the licensing requirements/restrictions. I use Windows and Linux [used to have a Mac] and if I wanted more experimentation Linux is Open Source and could modify as I desired, create my own version.

We pay to use it and that's not much different from buying it. In either case using software that's not offered to a user as free is theft.. plain and simple.,

barman58 · Oct 14, 2021

I would personally class reverse engineering Intellectual property as theft, and the price set by the owner of the intellectual property is not any sort of valid excuse for theft.

I would like a lot of things to make my life better, but if I cannot afford them I simply go without, I may save to afford an item, or wait for the price to drop as is often the case or use credit - I will not walk into a store an take what I want just because I want it - the fact that intellectual property is not a physical item does not change that it is still protected against theft

jimbo45 · Oct 14, 2021

barman58 said:
I would personally class reverse engineering Intellectual property as theft, and the price set by the owner of the intellectual property is not any sort of valid excuse for theft.

I would like a lot of things to make my life better, but if I cannot afford them I simply go without, I may save to afford an item, or wait for the price to drop as is often the case or use credit - I will not walk into a store an take what I want just because I want it - the fact that intellectual property is not a physical item does not change that it is still protected against theft

Hi there
take for example internal combustion engine -- Would we be happy if there was only 1 sort of car --OK an extreme example but you should get the idea that this is not such an easy problem to resolve --Providing the original designers patents etc are respected.

Cheers
jimbo

barman58 · Oct 14, 2021

Using your example does that mean that if you want another car, you just steal it from the side of the road

If the rights holder wishes to lease the rights to the intellectual property they own, or even sell it outright, to a third party that is fine, but without the agreement of the owner then theft is theft

iko22 · Oct 14, 2021

Wikipedia summarizes your rights on Reverse Engineering quite well:

United States[edit]
In the United States, even if an artifact or process is protected by trade secrets, reverse-engineering the artifact or process is often lawful if it has been legitimately obtained.[40]

Reverse engineering of computer software often falls under both contract law as a breach of contract as well as any other relevant laws. That is because most end user license agreements specifically prohibit it, and US courts have ruled that if such terms are present, they override the copyright law that expressly permits it (see Bowers v. Baystate Technologies[41][42]). According to Section 103(f) of the Digital Millennium Copyright Act (17 U.S.C. § 1201 (f)), a person in legal possession of a program may reverse-engineer and circumvent its protection if that is necessary to achieve "interoperability," a term that broadly covers other devices and programs that can interact with it, make use of it, and to use and transfer data to and from it in useful ways. A limited exemption exists that allows the knowledge thus gained to be shared and used for interoperability purposes.[43]

European Union[edit]
EU Directive 2009/24 on the legal protection of computer programs, which superseded an earlier (1991) directive,[44] governs reverse engineering in the European Union.[45][46]

Source: Reverse engineering - Wikipedia

Dru2 · Oct 14, 2021

Getting back on topic, visiting the old Vista forums I found my System Specs for my Vista built machine....

Manufacturer/Model: Custom Built
CPU: Intel Core 2 Quad Q6600 2.4GHz
Motherboard: Intel D975XBX2
Memory: Corsair TWIN2X4096-PC8500 (2x2GHz)
Graphics Card(s): ATI Radeon HD 4890 (1GHz)
Sound Card: X-Fi Titanium - Fatality Pro Series
Monitor(s) Displays: hp w2207h (22" widescreen)
Screen Resolution: 1680 x 1050
Hard Drives: One 750GB, 2x500GB Western Digital Caviar Black Hard Drives (32meg)
PSU: Antec Neo HE 550
Case: Antec P182
Cooling: Zalman CNPS9500 AT
Mouse: Logitech MX Revolution
Keyboard: Logitech Wireless Wave
Internet Speed: "High" Speed DSL? Is that like low speed FIOS?
Other Info: Q6600 B3 Revision OC to 3.0GHz

Man those specs are old, but Vista ran perfectly fine on those back then :)

iko22 · Oct 14, 2021

Great specs, especially if you got 3.0GHz out of the processor.

Dru2 · Oct 14, 2021

iko22 said:
Great specs, especially if you got 3.0GHz out of the processor.

I did but for 24/7/365 I backed in down to 2.8. I even gave it to a family member that way (2.8) and they kept the PC for a number of years until it died.

Anyway, that was back in the day when I was into overclocking. Today not at all. Today the only thing I "overclock" (XMP) is my RAM.

Anixx · Oct 14, 2021

I got a random reboot 3 times already, all shortly after boot up, with following disk scans. Win8.1 lives well on the same machine.

Anixx · Oct 14, 2021

Ghot said:
Win 95 = bad
Win 95 OSR2 = good
Win 98 = bad
Win 98 SE = good
Win ME = bad
Win XP = good
Win Vista = bad
Win 7 = good
Win 8/8.1 = bad
Win 10 = good
Win 11 = ???

Win 95 = good, hugely better than Win3.1
Win 98 = good, little change
Win 2000 = good, hugely better
Win XP = good (but some things got a bit worse)
Windows Vista = bad, and huge drop in quality
Win 7 = bad and worse than Vista
Win 8.1 = bad but a bit better than 7
Win 10 = bad, worst so far
Win 11 = bad, little change

altae · Oct 14, 2021

For me Windows 11 has been a positive experience so far. Sure there are a few issues here and there (especially with third party software) but I'm certain that future patches by MS as well as third party software developers will fix those issues. In my opinion it's kind of ridiculous to install a new OS on it's release day and complain about bugs. Freshly released software is bound to come with bugs. If one simply wants a stable OS it's best to stick with well tested software (like Windows 10).

owensdj · Oct 14, 2021

Windows 11 looks very stable and performant so far. It's even doing well on an older non-supported laptop with only 4GB memory that originally shipped with Windows 7 and then got upgraded to Windows 10.

I just wish they'd actually done more with the new Start Menu. I'd like to be able to customize it, such as being able to change the icon size.

Hazel123 · Oct 14, 2021

AddRAM said:
I think W7 should = Great

It blew everything else away.

The best visuals on Windows 11 are the control panel from Windows 7!

Hazel123 · Oct 14, 2021

FIREMEDIC2700 said:
For me good ol xp was the best.

I loved XP - it was kind of friendly, quirky, simple - I even liked the bugs.

i486 · Oct 14, 2021

BunnyJ said:
Interesting.. you condone theft? By stealing things like software you're taking money out of the pockets of the companies and it's employees,, is that fair to them? It's not.. far from it. They all work hard to produce a product and expect to be fairly compensated for their efforts like you or anyone would. When I program I have a choice to make my work available for free or to charge for it and when I charge for it I expect to be paid and not to have anyone steel it.

I think you need to sit back and check your moral compass. It's not about MS it's now about what you do.

No, I don't condone it, but I don't want MS to turn into a DRM watchdog for every possible company either. It's simply not their place, and there are countless ways this could interfere with consumer habits everyone takes for granted now. There are also cases where cracked software is legal, such as games sold at GOG. They work with game publishers to release games DRM-free, but also sometimes get their game executables from less than reputable sources. Often these files trigger false positive detections.

Many of these habits mentioned fall into a grey area of legality, but they can be as mundane as ripping a music CD for a digital library.

Hazel123 · Oct 14, 2021

Bree said:
Seems John is keeping it a little light on content at the moment

https://nineforums.com/

Was there actually a nine forums?!

Hazel123 · Oct 14, 2021

Anixx said:
Win 95 = good, hugely better than Win3.1
Win 98 = good, little change
Win 2000 = good, hugely better
Win XP = good (but some things got a bit worse)
Windows Vista = bad, and huge drop in quality
Win 7 = bad and worse than Vista
Win 8.1 = bad but a bit better than 7
Win 10 = bad, worst so far
Win 11 = bad, little change

Sounds like you were an XP fan! Find it hard to think anyone could think of W7 as bad though - it was lovely - kind of calm and relaxing. Win 10 very busy but faster - I have grown to like it a lot. Not sure how you can say Windows 11 is bad. Visually I think it’s lacking a bit (start menu, icons etc) but in use I’m finding it speedier to use and rather good. But the start menu really needs to be something more - just looks like an android phone menu really.

I’ve just copied and pasted backed up files from an external hard drive and the process was much quicker and smoother - especially with the little copy and paste icons at the top of right click (now I’ve found them!) - although they are rather small and faint - you need good eyesight or good glasses.

Hazel123 · Oct 14, 2021

thisisjay said:
Bought a new computer and decided to install 11 on it and it was one headache after another. Ran it for 6 days and ran into these issues:

-USB randomly dies out(requires restart)
-Bluetooth randomly dies out(requires restart-sometimes I have to remove and reinstall all Bluetooth devices to make it temporarily work) Even bought another BT adapter.
-CPU usage for "system" randomly sticks at 25% and to computer runs like a car with the E-brake partially engaged(requires restart)
-Programs randomly crash.(Requires restart)
-Turning off the Windows Defender Live Scan doesn't actually do anything.(Windows still detains my crack files for questioning)

I don't think I've restarted my computer this many times since the Windows 9x days.

Everything was solved by installing the latest Ghost Specture Windows 10 Lite (Windows 10 still sucks without a condom, but I'm guessing even the fool version of Windows of 10 would be more stable than this nonsense)

For a more stable and pleasant PC experience stick with Windows 10. That's what Microsoft should have done.

Not sure why you’ve had all those issues. Did you do a clean install or an in place upgrade? I’ve clean installed on two older machines and it’s very stable. Apart from a missing search icon on the task bar on my netbook but that shouldn’t even be running W11 at all!

Hazel123 · Oct 14, 2021

I started with XP - first computer for many years - previous one was a Commodore 64 lol, in my youth.

Loads of issues- I knew nothing about computers and XP was on a 4gb drive - on a netbook. I kept going to the computer repair shop and saying - are you sure 4gb is big enough? And they’d say - yeah it’s fine. Of course XP got bigger.

But XP and the 4gb drive taught me a lot about computers and software. Because it stopped working when the drive got full and I got another one with a bigger drive. But I really loved installing XP

. Which I had to do many times lol. What I miss is the recovery disk coming with the computer. But since then I’ve done clean installs, which is better anyway.

What I don’t miss (remember this amongst all the nostalgia) - were the vast amount of updates that needed doing after reinstalling, with both XP snd 7. With 7 it would sometimes take two days to do all the updates. So things got way better with 10 - when you could download the latest iso including all updates.

Hazel123 · Oct 14, 2021

Oh and only 512mb ram. So many computers sold with hardly any ram. Which taught me about ram. UPgraded to 2gb ram and wow XP was fast lol! My other half’s Xp laptop used to take 10 minutes to open a photo. Only had 250mb ram! So UPgraded his to 2gb ram too and it was nippy after that.

Incidentally I have W11 running with 2gb ram on a netbook and it’s not bad at all.

I see a little hint of XP in W11 - when the icons on the task bar do that little jump