Thoughts on Windows 11

Wynona · Nov 9, 2021

Cbleman said:
I'm not asking for a change, I'm asking for what was taken out to be put back in. If MS will not heed the call though, I would be forced to agree with Wynona also.

There are an awful lot of people out there that are asking for their taskbar customization back, and I don't think it's to much to ask for. Yes, If it doesn't come back, regular users and a lot of gamers who will not look up or would be unable to execute registry hacks will be annoyed for a while, but eventually complacency will kick in, and they will just "get over it". I just don't think they should have to. To me, MS crippled the UI. There will be many who disagree, but I don't think that's an overstatement.

BTW: My Sister-in-law just notified me that the company she works for will not be using 11.+

I think you may have misunderstood me, because your first sentence says it all for me. Put it back, Microsoft!

You will never find me complacent when things are just wrong; And I agree that Microsoft has crippled the UI.

I believe there will be more companies than your sister-in-law's that won't move to Windows 11 if Microsoft doesn't give back the choices we've depended on for so long.

Yep, I used to say, "With Windows, we have choices. Thanks, Microsoft." But unless they give those choices back . . .

Cbleman · Nov 9, 2021

Dru2 said:
Personally, I think some are obsessing way too much over a Taskbar, but that's me. And some don't even realize some taskbar features are still there. We had a user who didn't know you could move the Taskbar to the left via Taskbar Settings, so....

It's not just moving the task bar.

The majority of people keep their task bar on the bottom: Does allowing the Task Bar to be dragged to a location and dropped take up so much code that it can be classified as bloat?

Wynona · Nov 9, 2021

jaree1961 said:
If, what was taken out in WIN 11 does not meet expectations, then why not stay with WIN 10?

If one has a geniune need to modify, they will, but if complacency as you say kicks in and they get over it, what is the real problem as they can still go about their daily needs?

Are those that are asking "for their taskbar customization back" paying customers or are they the majority - home users where Microsoft does not receive much, if any revenue from?

Yes I agree, there are some company's that will not pay to upgrade to WIN 11, and rightly so if the OS they are currently using still meets all its expectations.

I teach Windows 10 and eventually will need to add Windows 11 to the mix. So, I don't really have a choice. I will keep Windows 10 for the next four years, though, and hope for the best.

I am asking for the customization back, and yes, I am a paying customer. If I buy a computer, I pay a licensing fee for Windows. I also subscribe to Microsoft 365 and have for years. Add to that, I have been a beta tester for Windows and Microsoft Office for years. I don't get paid for that testing; instead I add value to everything I test by virtue of my testing and reporting of bugs.

Wynona · Nov 9, 2021

Cbleman said:
It's not just moving the task bar.

The majority of people keep their task bar on the bottom: Does allowing the Task Bar to be dragged to a location and dropped take up so much code that it can be classified as bloat?

Actually, the code was already there and was removed. I'd hazard a guess that new code had to be written to replace what was taken out.

Quandary · Nov 9, 2021

Cbleman said:
BTW: My Sister-in-law just notified me that the company she works for will not be using 11.+

There are so many possible reasons for this that such a blanket statement is useless. An extreme example is that they are Apple based workstations with Unix servers.

Cbleman · Nov 9, 2021

Quandary said:
There are so many possible reasons for this that such a blanket statement is useless. An extreme example is that they are Apple based workstations with Unix servers.

They use Windows. (Another national company)

jaree1961 · Nov 9, 2021

Wynona said:
I teach Windows 10 and eventually will need to add Windows 11 to the mix. So, I don't really have a choice. I will keep Windows 10 for the next four years, though, and hope for the best.

I am asking for the customization back, and yes, I am a paying customer. If I buy a computer, I pay a licensing fee for Windows. I also subscribe to Microsoft 365 and have for years. Add to that, I have been a beta tester for Windows and Microsoft Office for years. I don't get paid for that testing; instead I add value to everything I test by virtue of my testing and reporting of bugs.

I understand in regards to teaching etc and the problems associated with major software upgrades and the changes associated with it to facilate the learning curve of the individuals involved and to try and cater to their circumstances.

Yes, you may have paid for a licence for Windows ## when you purchased a new computer entitling you to use the copyrighted software for what it was designed and functioned to work. I am NOT sure where is states you are entitled to NEW MAJOR FREE upgrades of that software without excepting the changes enforced along the way. (I do not of know many other software companys that do that either).
If you purchased Windows 11 and then they changed it, YES I would be at the head of the queue complaining as well.
Don't get me wrong, I do NOT like all the changes they have made along the way, just trying to put another perspective on things from their point of view, and remembering the majority of users complaining about the changes IMO, are those that have taken the opportunity of a free upgrade along the way.

Wynona · Nov 9, 2021

Quandary said:
There are so many possible reasons for this that such a blanket statement is useless. An extreme example is that they are Apple based workstations with Unix servers.

Not a blanket statement at all . . . Cbleman made a statement about one particular company's decision not to use Windows 11. A blanket statement, IMNSHO would be something like "50% of companies won't use Windows 11."

Dru2 · Nov 9, 2021

Cbleman said:
It's not just moving the task bar.

The majority of people keep their task bar on the bottom: Does allowing the Task Bar to be dragged to a location and dropped take up so much code that it can be classified as bloat?

At the end of the day everyone has different tastes. That what works for you may not work for me.

And you can call me a traditionalist in the fact that the taskbar placing is of no concern to me as long at it's on the bottom left :)

Oh, and as I've said many times no OS is or has ever been perfect. I'm excited about Windows 11 and look forward to seeing it grow. Than again, my strength is my ability to adapt. Perhaps why I've dumped every old OS the minute a new one was released.

That's me.

Ghot · Nov 9, 2021

Windows XP was perfect. It just needed to be 64bit and to have modern day "thingies" added to it.

Windows should have been "modular". A basic OS, that could have thingies easily added to or removed from.

And most important of all, Microsoft can't be trusted with my computer's security. Under the hood... sure.
Otherwise, unless everyone that works at MS is a paladin, I'd rather control my security, completely.

In other words... Linux with a nice GUI and no stupid un-intuitive words like sudo, etc.
No more ridiculous command line junk.
Everything should be buttons and checkboxes.
We have $1000 graphics cards and we still have the command line.
Just one of many perfect examples...

Reinstall and Re-register Apps in Windows 10

How to Reinstall and Re-register All Built-in Windows Apps in Windows 10

www.tenforums.com

I mean how many people would buy a video game that required tons of command line junk? LOL
Well... besides Zork. And even in Zork, you only had to type one of seven common English words.

North, south east west, use, take and look.

jimbo45 · Nov 10, 2021

Hi there

@Ghot

Why is command line junk.

If you just want a headless server for file serving, media streaming, backup storage, and possibly supplying centrally sourced software either for local client work stations to install or to supply a workplace "Virtual Desktop Infrastructure" as a "Local based cloud server" I would much rather manage this with fairly straight forward command line commands than mess about with all sorts of GUI's which add a huge complexity to any OS. I'm sure most people even on these Forums who use non Windows type NAS servers don't have full GUI's in them -- even when using proprietary OS'es like QNAP.

For workstations a GUI is IMO obviously required - but for Servers !!!!! - It's only bonkers idiots like me that have a go just for the fun of it to make things like the free 180 day trial version of Windows W2K22 server behave and look like a desktop !!! with themes games etc etc !!!

Cheers
jimbo

Ghot · Nov 10, 2021

jimbo45 said:
Hi there

@Ghot

Why is command line junk.

If you just want a headless server for file serving, media streaming, backup storage, and possibly supplying centrally sourced software either for local client work stations to install or to supply a workplace "Virtual Desktop Infrastructure" as a "Local based cloud server" I would much rather manage this with fairly straight forward command line commands than mess about with all sorts of GUI's which add a huge complexity to any OS. I'm sure most people even on these Forums who use non Windows type NAS servers don't have full GUI's in them -- even when using proprietary OS'es like QNAP.

For workstations a GUI is IMO obviously required - but for Servers !!!!! - It's only bonkers idiots like me that have a go just for the fun of it to make things like the free 180 day trial version of Windows W2K22 server behave and look like a desktop !!!

Cheers
jimbo

I wasn't talking about servers, NAS or otherwise.

But even if we were... the only reason GUI's add complexity is because we don't have a modular OS.
We don't even have a standard installer. That's just stoopid.

As I said, we should have a basic OS with standardized programs/apps/plugins whatever.
Developers could code whatever they want, but when finished have to conform to a standardized format.

We've had computers for 40 years, and still haven't figured out a... system.
It's ridiculous. This is why we need so much command line voodoo.

My basic premise in my post was a basic modular OS. And this isn't just about OSes.
All programs should be modular in themselves as well.
Backup software, image editors, AV programs are all loaded with everything and the kitchen sink.

My Bitdefender AV/firewall has 16 modules, and you have to have all of them!
Backup software is the same way. There should be a basic backup, restore, media builder, then if you want/need more
you can download it and plug it in.

It would be easier for the programmers and for the users.

There should be some kind of standard connector to use between various programs.
Everyone should have to use it. Then you wouldn't have problems like graphics drivers only working for the OS with the most money.
Everything would just connect like tinker toys.

And because programmers could write simpler code, because they aren't trying to do everything with one program, there wouldn't be huge hunks of an OS for example, that weren't... "finished". We wouldn't need command line magic.

DISM should have a GUI. Same for Diskpart, same for boot config editing. Everything should have a GUI.

Just a pet peeve of mine. :)

barman58 · Nov 10, 2021

Personally I would prefer to go back to the Windows 2K design philosophy, simple UI which left the clock cycles for the applications - The ui was simple but it did what you needed for general use without the command line. Why waste so much computing power on a Pretty interface. As an example look at what the faffing about with W2K to appeal to the wider audience, we ended up with windows XP which was a dog to use for anything serious, at least you could switch off the ugly interface and get back to simple practicality.

Also my company servers and my workstations had similar basic look and feel and both had a usable CLI for when some command line programing was required to do the job. strangely enough most of the end users who were used to Windows 9x loved win2K.

Making an OS look pretty simply makes your applications, utilities, and yes even games run more slowly

hdmi · Nov 10, 2021

jaree1961 said:
I am with @Wynona on this one, the easiest less intrusive changes (be it 3rd party software or registry changes) the better. The more you change, the greater the chances are to create other unwanted issues.

What other unwanted issues? ExplorerPatcher effectively makes like a dozen or so other unwanted issues go away.

barman58 · Nov 10, 2021

It's a case that in Microsoft's opinion the OS does no longer needs some of the options which are used by some users, will microsoft change? unlikely.

Q Can you circumvent the issue in Windows, No, can you get the option back by the use of third party tools Yes

A Use the third party solution and get on with using your computer

If the issue is not fixable then you still have options, Stay with windows 10 for now and see if the issues are "fixed" in the next four years

If you read through any forum you will see that there is a huge range of personal preferences so Microsoft would never be able to cover them all in an OS that was practical to use for all

The third party developed can produce modular sets of changes which should satisfy most of the users without adding anything that others do not want.

I read a lot of requests for Windows to be more modular, Third party options are making it so

Ghot · Nov 10, 2021

barman58 said:
Personally I would prefer to go back to the Windows 2K design philosophy, simple UI which left the clock cycles for the applications - The ui was simple but it did what you needed for general use without the command line. Why waste so much computing power on a Pretty interface. As an example look at what the faffing about with W2K to appeal to the wider audience, we ended up with windows XP which was a dog to use for anything serious, at least you could switch off the ugly interface and get back to simple practicality.

Also my company servers and my workstations had similar basic look and feel and both had a usable CLI for when some command line programing was required to do the job. strangely enough most of the end users who were used to Windows 9x loved win2K.

Making an OS look pretty simply makes your applications, utilities, and yes even games run more slowly

I agree. And I'm not saying everything has to look like a work of art.
Just enough GUI so the end user doesn't have to worry about commands like this...

<insert ridiculously complex command, here>

Btw, I'm not talking about Win 11 only.
All operating systems are like this. They're unfinished.
Just look at how many tutorials there are.

hdmi · Nov 10, 2021

Dru2 said:
Anyway, I think most complaints stem from drag and drop feature missing as well as placement of the taskbar,

No ability to pin user-created shortcuts to Taskbar, and no Taskbar Toolbars also in addition to that, so, basically, no shortcuts altogether. No ability to let the clock show seconds. No ability to make the Taskbar Icons smaller, as the smallest available size is actually medium size. No ability to make the taskbar height smaller. No Calendar flyout with events integration. The list goes on. This is what they call "upgrade".

DigitalGoat · Nov 10, 2021

Honestly I don't see any issues with 11 over 10, things change, not always for the best from everyone's perspective. But Windows is an ever evolving beast, what is missing today may well be added tomorrow, if not I can adapt.
I clean installed Win11 on October 5th having been using Win10 since it upgraded my Win7 system in 2015 - 2016, I believe it was, I may be one of the lucky ones, all my hardware and apps still work, including a 12 year old Trust graphics tablet that works perfectly without the need for additional drivers.
I have been using computers since MS DOS days and have found that there is usually a way to achieve objectives utilising a Command shell or 3rd party utility if the OS/ GUI doesn't have an available method, this has been the case for as long as I can remember. However most of my time is spent using my apps, printing and gaming which all work fine regardless of the OS/ GUI in use, and that is the most important aspect of any OS.
Just my humble view. :)

hdmi · Nov 10, 2021

barman58 said:
If you read through any forum you will see that there is a huge range of personal preferences so Microsoft would never be able to cover them all in an OS that was practical to use for all

Nobody here has asked to cover them all. It's the unnecessary removal of useful features that's rubbing ppl the wrong way. Unnecessary removal, like, they could've just left it alone and let the ppl decide on which ones they want to use or not use. Keeping this basic freedom of choice would've hurt simply no one.

hdmi · Nov 10, 2021

Wynona said:
Actually, the code was already there and was removed.

It wasn't removed. (I should say thankfully it wasn't.) What they did instead was they just disabled it, but left it in there in order for someone to then be able to re-enable it and be able to provide an (optional) fix for negative side effects caused by re-enabling it.