Thoughts on Windows 11

The Pool Man · Nov 11, 2021

Dru2 said:
I guess you missed all the vitriol here cause pretty much all the complaints are Microsoft changed too much

I don't know if I was clear with my 25% comment. It means while Win 11 emerges and changes 'too much' they'd also maintain Win 10. That way the Changephobics could delight in their stagnant OS to their hearts content. Meanwhile --

-- 11 could proceed into the future. Or really catch up to the recent past.

I've never used a Mac PC myself, but I know plenty of creative people who swear by Mac OS.

It's not a creative person thing. It's broader than that. In 2001 Mac OS X was ahead of Windows 11 in cohesiveness, consistency, and design. So is Zorin 15 from over a year ago. It's not if you swear by it -- it's if you get it.

If we were to speak of cars --

Windows Cars -- have four doors, but one is a different size. Two are painted slightly different colors. There's another door in the trunk, in case you need it. There are four tires but one has whitehalls. The turn signal used to work in both directions but now only works for left turns, because their users didn't ask for it.

Windows cars have a lion's share of the car business, even though they're aware that cars by Ford, Chevy, Toyota, Honda, and others are simply better. They dream of making their cars as good but apparently can't manage it any time soon or ever. Because they're only making billions.

hdmi · Nov 11, 2021

Dru2 said:
I guess you missed all the vitriol here cause pretty much all the complaints are Microsoft changed too much

I don't think they changed too much. To the contrary, more changes are needed in order to bring usability back to normal and to make things like the new Widgets become useful because it's not that hard to predict that it'll go the way of the dud if it supports only services from Microsoft, and, for another example, yes, consistencies like system-wide Dark Theme, etc. are the superlative of overdue.

Dru2 · Nov 12, 2021

The Pool Man said:
It's not a creative person thing. It's broader than that. In 2001 Mac OS X was ahead of Windows 11 in cohesiveness, consistency, and design. So is Zorin 15 from over a year ago. It's not if you swear by it -- it's if you get it.

Yeah, but I can only comment on what you said...

The Pool Man said:
So that I could tell a Mac user what a fool they're being with their money, since most Mac people aren't creatives and do not need laptops with M1 silicone implants.

Everyone is creative even if they don't know it - a thief is creative in the planning of a theft; a liar is creative in the way they concoct their lie; a businessman is creative in the way they drum up business.

My point?... None of those people are excluded from owning a Mac :wink:

Anyway, I'm not trying to play word smith, I was just caught by the comment at large.

Movin on :)

Dru2 · Nov 12, 2021

hdmi said:
I don't think they changed too much. To the contrary, more changes are needed in order to bring usability back to normal and to make things like the new Widgets become useful because it's not that hard to predict that it'll go the way of the dud if it supports only services from Microsoft, and, for another example, yes, consistencies like system-wide Dark Theme, etc. are the superlative of overdue.

This is the definition of no matter what you say. All the vitriol posted on this site about how Microsoft changed this, that, and everything else in Windows 11; yet when I point it out suddenly it's highly debatable. Yeah OK :lmao:

hdmi · Nov 12, 2021

Dru2 said:
This is the definition of no matter what you say. All the vitriol posted on this site about how Microsoft changed this, that, and everything else in Windows 11; yet when I point it out suddenly it's highly debatable. Yeah OK

It's not exactly called vitriol when a lot of it is merely constructive criticism with a typical-old layer of understandable frustration added. Windows is old so, I guess it has acquired a natural tendency to attract the type of users who can sometimes act a bit grumpy.

paulhatton · Nov 12, 2021

Well guys I'm 70 and probably your atypical grumpy old male but......... I have installed Windows 11 pro on 3 non hardware supported computers ( another post) and found it fine. Everything has updated correctly ,no grief from Microsoft servers and even have Office 2021 on board as well. I am writing this post on a Lenovo 450 Thinkpad with 16gb ram as already installed when I bought it and 512 SSD hard drive. It boots from cold in 15 seconds with no problems. However I do go back to DOS 6.22 and window 3.0, 3.1 , 3.11 and thed Windows 95 and Memmaker too !!

Berton · Nov 12, 2021

paulhatton said:
Well guys I'm 70 and probably your atypical grumpy old male but......... I have installed Windows 11 pro on 3 non hardware supported computers ( another post) and found it fine. Everything has updated correctly ,no grief from Microsoft servers and even have Office 2021 on board as well. I am writing this post on a Lenovo 450 Thinkpad with 16gb ram as already installed when I bought it and 512 SSD hard drive. It boots from cold in 15 seconds with no problems. However I do go back to DOS 6.22 and window 3.0, 3.1 , 3.11 and thed Windows 95 and Memmaker too !!

Got you beat, 82 next month. I also go back to MS-DOS and Win3.1 of the early '90s, still have a usable Toshiba Laptop with them. I have a new Notebook with Win11, no issues, also have a Desktop that was running Win10 IP Dev channel that got Upgraded to Win11 instead of simply updated to the latest Win10 Dev on unsupported hardware, everything is okay so far.

hdmi · Nov 12, 2021

Berton said:
MS-DOS

MSX-DOS is more minimalist than MS-DOS, so it is more matchy-matchy next to Windows 11.

Berton · Nov 12, 2021

DOS [there were several 'flavors'] is the Disk Operating System, pretty much bare bones, then the GUI/Graphical User Interface or WYSIWYG [What You See Is What You Get] as it was called of Windows when it became available [also other 'flavors', think OS/2 Warp or GeoWorks]. Both the OS and the GUI started merging together with Windows 95 and became more integrated with each succeeding version of Windows.

hdmi · Nov 12, 2021

Berton said:
DOS [there were several 'flavors'] is the Disk Operating System, pretty much bare bones, then the GUI/Graphical User Interface or WYSIWYG [What You See Is What You Get] as it was called of Windows when it became available [also other 'flavors', think OS/2 Warp or GeoWorks]. Both the OS and the GUI started merging together with Windows 95 and became more integrated with each succeeding version of Windows.

Before Windows came out, there was also DESQview (DV) and Graphics Environment Manager (GEM), which ran on top of MS-DOS. As for MSX-DOS, it's not just another 'flavor', it's officially from Microsoft, it's actually MS-DOS ported to the Zilog Z80 CPU by James T Paterson.

paulhatton · Nov 12, 2021

Respect Berton !!!

barman58 · Nov 12, 2021

The windows versions we are using now and have been for many years, are not a continuation of the windows 9x operating systems but the Windows NT range, Windows XP (a skinned version of Windows 2000), was the first of the windows operating system that brought together the home and Professional ranges

paulhatton · Nov 12, 2021

To be fair mate I only got into these forums as I've always had an interest way back to the Amstrad and Dos 6.22 and my wife died suddenly just 2 months ago at only 66 yrs old and although I have a a large family; this is something I can do alone as you are inundated with advice good and bad afterwards and invites but alone time vital and therapy !!
See you.

BunnyJ · Nov 12, 2021

paulhatton said:
To be fair mate I only got into these forums as I've always had an interest way back to the Amstrad and Dos 6.22 and my wife died suddenly just 2 months ago at only 66 yrs old and although I have a a large family; this is something I can do alone as you are inundated with advice good and bad afterwards and invites but alone time vital and therapy !!
See you.

Sorry for your loss.

barman58 · Nov 12, 2021

Sorry for your loss, and if we can help you get through it we will, there is a good group of people here with a wide experience

paulhatton · Nov 12, 2021

Thank you Bunny J. The only time I will ever talk about on a public forum and it is a computer one oh well such is life. She had Multiple Sclerosis all her life but really coped well had a family, supported me through a life of shift work and long hours and then once life is settled children married and grandchildren, this vile disease bites her viciously and in the short space of 2 years ,diminished her where her last days were spent in Homerton Hospital UK, unable to talk, move, speak or feed herself. I never got to have the final conversation so vital to you with her as she just shut down one minute OK;the next with tube down her throat in Intensive Care.
So sorry guys not a standard post but yes it is the hardest thing in the world even with massive support both family and professional support to keep going afterwards; the legalities are mind blowing an you plow through paperwork, online rubbish government websites too and still 2 months later they address letters " To the recently deceased Denise Hatton" for example.
So that's why I like this forum and things on it ...I am a bit nerdy if I may say it.
Thanks to all,
PAUL

BunnyJ · Nov 12, 2021

paulhatton said:
Thank you Bunny J. The only time I will ever talk about on a public forum and it is a computer one oh well such is life. She had Multiple Sclerosis all her life but really coped well had a family, supported me through a life of shift work and long hours and then once life is settled children married and grandchildren, this vile disease bites her viciously and in the short space of 2 years ,diminished her where her last days were spent in Homerton Hospital UK, unable to talk, move, speak or feed herself. I never got to have the final conversation so vital to you with her as she just shut down one minute OK;the next with tube down her throat in Intensive Care.
So sorry guys not a standard post but yes it is the hardest thing in the world even with massive support both family and professional support to keep going afterwards; the legalities are mind blowing an you plow through paperwork, online rubbish government websites too and still 2 months later they address letters " To the recently deceased Denise Hatton" for example.
So that's why I like this forum and things on it ...I am a bit nerdy if I may say it.
Thanks to all,
PAUL

That's a shame.. and I understand what you went through in a way. This is a good place to talk to other people and make new friends.

There's a thread in the Chill Out section Last one to post wins. join in and we can keep in touch.
Have a nice day my new friend
Jeff..

Ed Tittel · Nov 12, 2021

@paulhatton: my sympathies. I lost my Mom in 2009, my Dad in 2018; both were institutionalized in long-term care facilities for 19 (Dad) to 24 (Mom) months before they shuffled off this mortal coil. It's never easy and the paperwork is indeed formidable. But over time, the pain gets balanced by the memories and feelings they bring with them (more good than bad, in my case). May you transition to acceptance and equanimity sooner rather than later. It's tough!
Best wishes,
--Ed--

Dru2 · Nov 12, 2021

Dru2 said:
This is the definition of no matter what you say. All the vitriol posted on this site about how Microsoft changed this, that, and everything else in Windows 11; yet when I point it out suddenly it's highly debatable. Yeah OK

hdmi said:
It's not exactly called vitriol when a lot of it is merely constructive criticism with a typical-old layer of understandable frustration added. Windows is old so, I guess it has acquired a natural tendency to attract the type of users who can sometimes act a bit grumpy.

Yeah, I guess that's one way to look at it :)

Cbleman · Nov 12, 2021

hdmi said:
No ability to pin user-created shortcuts to Taskbar, and no Taskbar Toolbars also in addition to that, so, basically, no shortcuts altogether. No ability to let the clock show seconds. No ability to make the Taskbar Icons smaller, as the smallest available size is actually medium size. No ability to make the taskbar height smaller. No Calendar flyout with events integration. The list goes on. This is what they call "upgrade".

I agree.

Hence a post about the modular suggestion by Ghot. Why not let the people decide what works for them and what doesn't on install. Create a very modular OS/UI, and let people keep the install Disc/ISO/Link to add or subtract modules as needed. Unless there is a major dearth of users for a feature, leave it alone. Also, why force people to accept the space an APP or Program that they will never use takes up. There should be no such thing as an un-installable App or program. Supply a suggested install package, and let people subtract from that, then choose from a list of optional features. This would include opting to put back in features or UI options that were removed during the latest tweak. As a people who use an option, tweak or utility dwindle down to a very few, just let it "fall off" the back of the list of options during the next update or iteration.

Of course with the state of the current Operating systems, the economy, technology and programming today, I can also see why this would be untenable. But it's nice to dream.

RE: The command line conversation
I can understand why some call it Vudu. Like Vudu, if you don't understand it, it can be very cryptic. Just like magic or Vudu.

There was also a comment that command line may be able to be eliminated by proper programming. I don't think so, and hope not. Command line can sometimes do something much faster and (to me) easier then going through a complicated evolution in a GUI.
2. There is not a GUI out there right now that is a solution to absolutely everything. I doubt there is a person or team out there right now that can remember every single little nuance a modern computer can accomplish, and figure out a simple GUI interface for an event they have forgotten even existed or cannot conceive of at the moment. (although they can come somewhat close.) Command line plugs those holes and serves as a stopgap between the GUI and technology. For those that take the time to learn command line and directory structure, (even a little bit.) a whole new world opens up. WARNING: IT CAN BE ADDICTIVE, AND LEAD TO HARDER DRUGS LIKE PROGRAMMING! :)