Why Windows 11 is a Big Deal to Me


NavyLCDR

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Windows 11
The TPM 2.0 specification was released in 2014, and the first Intel 8th gen processors were released on 5th October 2017. So PCs that are supported for Windows 11 could have first started appearing in 2018. Probably not many at first, but by 2020 there were plenty to choose from. My System One is a late 2020 model.
My laptop was manufactured in 2017 according the label on the back, and it meets the requirements for Windows 11.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Homebuilt
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 7 3800XT
    Motherboard
    ASUS ROG Crosshair VII Hero (WiFi)
    Memory
    32GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA GeForce GTX 1080 Ti
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Education
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Inspiron 7773
    CPU
    Intel i7-8550U
    Memory
    32GB
    Graphics card(s)
    Nvidia Geforce MX150
    Sound Card
    Realtek
    Monitor(s) Displays
    17"
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080
    Hard Drives
    Toshiba 512GB NVMe SSD
    SK Hynix 512GB SATA SSD
    Internet Speed
    Fast!

Bree

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Windows 11 Home
My laptop was manufactured in 2017 according the label on the back, and it meets the requirements for Windows 11.
That would be your Dell? In researching potential used laptops to become my replacement 'main machine' I found that Dell were particularly prompt at adopting the new technologies. Many other OEMs were slower to use the newer processors, and particularly slow at adopting TPM 2.0.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Acer Aspire 3 A315-23
    CPU
    AMD Athlon Silver 3050U
    Memory
    8GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Radeon Graphics
    Monitor(s) Displays
    laptop screen
    Screen Resolution
    1366x768 native resolution, up to 2560x1440 with Radeon Virtual Super Resolution
    Hard Drives
    1TB HDD
    Browser
    Edge, Firefox
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    fully 'Windows 11 ready' laptop. Windows 10 C: partition migrated from my old unsupported 'main machine' then upgraded to 11. A test migration ran Insider builds for 2 months. When 11 was released on 5th October it was re-imaged back to 10 and was offered the upgrade in Windows Update on 20th October.


    My SYSTEM THREE is a Dell Latitude 5410, i7-10610U, 32GB RAM, 512GB ssd, Windows 11 Pro.
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Lattitude E4310
    CPU
    i5 M 520
    Motherboard
    0T6M8G
    Memory
    4GB
    Screen Resolution
    1366x768
    Hard Drives
    500GB HDD
    Browser
    Firefox, Edge
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    unsupported machine: Legacy bios, MBR, TPM 1.2, upgraded from W10 to W11 using W10/W11 hybrid install media workaround.


    My SYSTEM THREE is a Dell Latitude 5410, i7-10610U, 32GB RAM, 512GB ssd, Windows 11 Pro.

Dru2

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Virginia
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Windows 11 Pro 21H2 (22000.613)
That would be your Dell? In researching potential used laptops to become my replacement 'main machine' I found that Dell were particularly prompt at adopting the new technologies. Many other OEMs were slower to use the newer processors, and particularly slow at adopting TPM 2.0.

I find this an odd statement considering TPM 2.0 has been around since 2014. That my 2017 Lenovo has TPM 2.0. On the desktop side all my Gigabyte boards going back to 2016 also support (firmware) TPM 2.0.

In the end, it's not TPM 2.0 support but processor support that hurts systems below 2018. My 2017 Lenovo is hurt by an i7-7600U. Both my Gigabyte GA-Z170 and GA-Z270 boards are hurt because they only support 6th and 7th gen processors - i7-6700K, and i7-7700K.

And, yes, I'm running Win 11 "Insiders" on both my i7-7700K and i7-7600U, but that's not the point.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro 21H2 (22000.613)
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Custom built
    CPU
    Intel i9-9900K
    Motherboard
    Gigabyte Aorus Z390 Xtreme
    Memory
    32G (4x8) DDR4 Corsair RGB Dominator Platinum (3600Mhz)
    Graphics Card(s)
    Radeon VII
    Sound Card
    Onboard (ESS Sabre HiFi using Realtek drivers)
    Monitor(s) Displays
    NEC PA242w (24 inch)
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1200
    Hard Drives
    5 Samsung SSD drives: 2X 970 NVME (512 & 1TB), 3X EVO SATA (2X 2TB, 1X 1TB)
    PSU
    EVGA Super Nova I000 P2 (1000 watt)
    Case
    Cooler Master H500M
    Cooling
    Corsair H115i RGB Platinum
    Keyboard
    Logitech Craft
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Master 2S
    Internet Speed
    500mb Download. 11mb Upload
    Browser
    Microsoft Edge Chromium
    Antivirus
    Windows Security
    Other Info
    System used for gaming, photography, audiophile media center, work.
  • Operating System
    Win 11 Pro Dev build 22454.1000
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Lenovo ThinkPad Yoga X1
    CPU
    Intel i7-7600U
    Motherboard
    Intel
    Memory
    16igg
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel HD 620
    Sound Card
    Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    14.0 WQHD OLED Touch
    Screen Resolution
    2560 x 1440
    Hard Drives
    1TB NVMe Drive (OEM)
    PSU
    laptop
    Case
    laptop
    Cooling
    Laptop cooling
    Mouse
    Logitech MX Anywhere 2S
    Keyboard
    Laptop
    Internet Speed
    100MB
    Browser
    Edge Chromium
    Antivirus
    Windows Security

Bree

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OS
Windows 11 Home
I find this an odd statement considering TPM 2.0 has been around since 2014.
I looked at a lot of laptops when looking for a W11-capable one. At the lower end of the price range some earlier models from 2018 did not even have TPM and others were still only TPM 1.2.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Acer Aspire 3 A315-23
    CPU
    AMD Athlon Silver 3050U
    Memory
    8GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Radeon Graphics
    Monitor(s) Displays
    laptop screen
    Screen Resolution
    1366x768 native resolution, up to 2560x1440 with Radeon Virtual Super Resolution
    Hard Drives
    1TB HDD
    Browser
    Edge, Firefox
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    fully 'Windows 11 ready' laptop. Windows 10 C: partition migrated from my old unsupported 'main machine' then upgraded to 11. A test migration ran Insider builds for 2 months. When 11 was released on 5th October it was re-imaged back to 10 and was offered the upgrade in Windows Update on 20th October.


    My SYSTEM THREE is a Dell Latitude 5410, i7-10610U, 32GB RAM, 512GB ssd, Windows 11 Pro.
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Pro
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Lattitude E4310
    CPU
    i5 M 520
    Motherboard
    0T6M8G
    Memory
    4GB
    Screen Resolution
    1366x768
    Hard Drives
    500GB HDD
    Browser
    Firefox, Edge
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    unsupported machine: Legacy bios, MBR, TPM 1.2, upgraded from W10 to W11 using W10/W11 hybrid install media workaround.


    My SYSTEM THREE is a Dell Latitude 5410, i7-10610U, 32GB RAM, 512GB ssd, Windows 11 Pro.

unifex

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Windows 10
I don't understand the long discussion of old laptops. Old laptops are already running some sort of Windows - be it 7, 8, or 10. I see no reason whatsoever to change the OS. Even if I had a catastrophic breakdown, I would reinstall the same OS as the laptop was shipped with, using the drivers from the manufacturer's website. In fact, I do the same with desktops - I only install new OS when I get new hardware where the drivers are only available for the new OS.

I do have a possibility to test run Windows 11 on the separate drive in my desktop and I see absolutely no reason to switch to it as my main working OS. In fact, I have built this desktop in January this year and that was the first time I used Windows 10, before I was running Windows 7 and I was perfectly fine with it. Now that I'm working on Windows 10 - I see no improvement whatsoever that can be attributed to the OS. With Windows 11 on the same hardware - there is just no difference really, for what I'm doing. Yes, the menus are slightly different, but that's not what I care about. All kinds of settings are actually worse then before, customization possibilities are crippled, so I really don't know why is there suddenly such a rush to change the OS.

My advice - if you have an older laptop, forget about Windows 11 and go on with your life. When and if you'll get a newer one with 11 on it, then you'll figure it out, there is not much difference.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    i5-10600K
    Motherboard
    Asus Rog Strix Z490-A Gaming
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    GeForce GTX 1650
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Samsung U32J59x 32" 4K
    Screen Resolution
    3840x2160

The Pool Man

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11 if on this site
Since making that post I've been thinking about this a lot more. It brought to mind something that a member of the media recently said. Bear in mind, this individual is someone who covers Microsoft for a living. He basically asserted that no one really cares what the underlying operating system is, and that the operating system is just there to facilitate the apps that a user wants to run to accomplish their daily tasks.

That statement has been grating on me for a while.

It should grate. It's apologist drivel.

As a former Mac user of 29 years, as a Windows 10 user forward, as an iOS and Android user, and as a Linux dabbler -- there is nothing more magical than a slick reliable operating system.

If Apple released products at direct competition levels I'd ditch Windows. Why? The OS toasts Windows. It's not even a fair fight. But since Apple knows this they double and triple hardware prices -- I mean somebody has to pay for those zillion dollar stores, right? -- I've given Windows a try.

What surprised me with Windows 10 was, contrary to iPropaganda, it was stable as hell and viral activity is something you must seek out. The only virus that ever found me was -- get this -- a DDS attack thingee that found my Apple Airport Router. Otherwise the two viruse/malware events I've had I did to myself. (I now know how to avoid those as well, but I almost wanted to get infected to see what the fuss was all about.)

11 has been a big disappointment because it still doesn't offer what every other OS already does: a complete cohesive base OS. The Control Panel is still here (which should have been gone with 10). Task Manager has never heard of Dark Mode. Device Manager, Disk Management, and the like should all be apps now. The terminal still opens off kilter. The Recycle Bin still needs a refresh to show it actually emptied everything. The taskbar finally would look good on the left or top -- but nope.

What annoys me is that I'm dying to tell Mac users they're still suckers. Despite their M1 chip which, I'm convinced, over 80% of users don't need. Are you a filmmaker? Do you travel everywhere with your laptop? If no and no Macs are still crazy overpriced.

But YES oh YES that OS is sooooooooooooooo much better. If the tools in Redmond would simply finish basic 11 ASAP they'd actually be a serious contender. Instead of a cute yet peculiar option stuck in its own poopoo.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    11 if on this site

ThrashZone

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Linux-Mint-Cinnamon-20.2 Win-7-10-11Pro's
Hi,
Doubt many keep track of the build numbers on 10 or now 11 or ever will lol

Does social media websites/ apps still work is all they care about.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Linux-Mint-Cinnamon-20.2 Win-7-10-11Pro's
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    asus x3
    CPU
    10900k & 9940x & 5930k
    Motherboard
    z490-Apex & x299-Apex & x99-Sabertooth
    Memory
    Trident-Z Royal 4000c16 2x16gb & Trident-Z 3600c16 4x8gb & 3200c14 4x8gb
    Graphics Card(s)
    Titan Xp & 1080ti FTW3 & evga 980ti gaming
    Sound Card
    Onboard Realtek x3
    Monitor(s) Displays
    1-AOC G2460PG 24"G-Sync 144Hz/ 2nd 1-ASUS VG248QE 24"/ 3rd LG 43" series
    Screen Resolution
    1920-1080 not sure what the t.v is besides 43" class scales from 1920-1080 perfectly
    Hard Drives
    To many to list
    PSU
    1000p2 & 1200p2 & 850p2
    Case
    D450 x2 & 1 Test bench in cherry Entertainment center
    Cooling
    Custom water loops x3 with 2x mora 360mm rads only 980ti gaming air cooled
    Keyboard
    G710+x3
    Mouse
    Redragon x3
    Internet Speed
    xfinity gigabyte
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    mbam pro

Singleton

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Windows 11 Pro
Old thread, but then I'm old too.

My perspective is always a bit skewed as a Software Engineer who has worked on everything from Kernel drivers to the Cloud I certainly have adopted an "it's just a tool" attitude.

Don't get me wrong, I can appreciate the subtle and not-so-subtle differences between different OS's over the decades. I know why Linux kicked Sun and Microsoft out of the Server rooms, even Azure runs on Linux now. Just like there are profound reasons why OSX/macOS is the favored operating system for software engineers and cloud developers everywhere I have worked. There are some of us who have been begging Apple to give us 64GB of RAM and lots of CPU overhead. And Windows, well DirectX, is the reason that Microsoft has been dominating the gaming market. Ok, maybe not always the Console market, but #PCMasterRace, amiright?

I remember when Windows 95 was released and seeing the lines of fans wrapping around the software stores (remember those?) And thinking to myself WTH are they all so excited about. However, because of better process separation and a proprietary mode for the kernel, 95 did do multitasking much better. For a short time, Windows kicked the Mac off of my desktop for that reason. Then OSX happened and there wasn't going to be any looking back. Of course, Linux helped that happen around then too.

Getting excited over something is good. That's what makes us nerds. I guess I'm just saying it's entirely a matter of perspective. For me having a favorite OS could never work out. Too many jobs needing the right tool.

Oh, and a simple piece of code that you write to crunch a bunch of numbers on the command line IS an app. Anything that is self-contained and performs tasks on a computing "device" is an app. Excel is an App, Borderlands is an App, grep and awk are both apps. Visual Studio Code is an App I have used to write other Apps. To say otherwise would be like saying a 3d-printer is a tool but a hammer isn't.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    PowerSpec G435
    CPU
    i7-10700K
    Motherboard
    ASRock Z490 Phantom Gaming 4/ax
    Memory
    64GB DDR4
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA Geforce RTX 2070 Super
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell S3220DGF
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440
    Hard Drives
    1TB WDC .M2 Nvme SSD
    4TB Samsung 870 SSD
    PSU
    750 Watt Gold
    Case
    Lian Li ATX 205
    Cooling
    Thermal-Take Water Cooled CPU
    Keyboard
    Corsair K70 RGB
    Mouse
    Razer Basilisk X
    Internet Speed
    Gigabit
    Browser
    Brave
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender

Winuser

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2,815
OS
Windows 11
Old thread, but then I'm old too.
We are only as old as we feel. I don't see myself as old. I see myself as being 66 years young.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    PowerSpec B746
    CPU
    Intel Core i7-10700K
    Motherboard
    ASRock Z490 Phantom Gaming 4/ax
    Memory
    16GB (8GB PC4-19200 DDR4 SDRAM x2)
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA GeForce GTX 1050 TI
    Sound Card
    Realtek Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Samsung SAM0A87 Samsung SAM0D32
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080
    Hard Drives
    NVMe WDC WDS100T2B0C-00PXH0 1TB
    Samsung SSD 860 EVO 1TB
    PSU
    750 Watts (62.5A)
    Case
    PowerSpec/Lian Li ATX 205
    Keyboard
    Logitech K270
    Mouse
    Logitech M185
    Browser
    Microsoft Edge and Firefox
    Antivirus
    ESET Internet Security
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Dev
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP Envy x360 15-ds1083cl
    CPU
    AMD Ryzen 7 4700U 2.0GHZ
    Memory
    16 MB DDR 4-2666
    Graphics card(s)
    AMD Radeon
    Monitor(s) Displays
    15.6"
    Screen Resolution
    1920x1080
    Hard Drives
    PCIe NVMe M.2 512GB
    Browser
    Firefox, Edge and Edge Canary
    Antivirus
    ESET Internet Security

Hazel123

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Windows 10 Pro
My simple take is - I just like Windows. I very much dislike Mac OS which seems designed by someone whose brain doesn’t function in the way mine does. Linux sort of works but is nothing like as polished and intuitive as windows (and you need a bit of geekiness - the only reason I enjoy playing with it but wouldn’t have it as my day to day workhorse).

What I have always liked about Windows (all versions) is the fact - other programs are made for it and work with it. It is customisable. And kind of looks nice. But not in a flashy way.

What concerns me is that Microsoft are trying to compete with/ copy Apple by producing laptops that aren’t upgradeable and have an OS lifespan- and even some of the “look”. Presumably because it’s a lucrative business model.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 10 Pro
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP Pavilion 14-ce3514sa
    CPU
    Core i5
    Memory
    8gb
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 970 evo plus 1TB
    Cooling
    Could be better
    Internet Speed
    Dismal
    Browser
    Firefox
    Other Info
    Originally installed with a 500gb H10 Optane ssd
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Asus Eee PC 1015PX 10" netbook
    CPU
    Intel Atom N570
    Memory
    2gb
    Hard Drives
    Samsung Evo 860 250gb ssd
    Internet Speed
    Dismal
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    Defender

Wynona

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Arkansas
OS
Windows 11 20000.613
That is one thing that bothers me. Many many people rely on cheap used laptops and can’t afford new ones - and most of them wouldn’t want or couldn’t get on with Linux. But I guess by the time Windows 10 ends there will be a few used laptops available (but nothing older than four snd a half years so not that cheap). For example my Dad’s old laptop runs great - updates from W7 to W10. Only worth about £50 and 9 years old but to someone with no money who needs a computer it’s a great computer!an end to computer upgrades.
I understand, Ethel, but I can't fault Microsoft for going to "extreme" security measures with Windows 11 for the simple reason that more and more hackers are out there, trying to hack into our computers to steal whatever they can. And, sadly, it's only going to get more prevalent.

And even worse, those very people who rely on cheap used laptops are most vulnerable to the jerks.

Since I teach Windows at our local Senior Center, I need to stay up-to-date, or I wouldn't have bought these last three. Luckily, they will all run Windows 11, so I'm good.

I noticed that Walmart has some Black Friday Chromebooks for $87.00 (US), so all is not lost yet.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 20000.613
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP Envy TE01-1xxx
    CPU
    ntel(R) Core(TM) i7-10700 CPU @ 2.90GHz 2.90 GHz
    Motherboard
    16.0GB Dual-Channel Unknown @ 1463MHz (21-21-21-47)
    Memory
    16384 MBytes
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel UHD Graphics 630
    Sound Card
    Realtek High Definition Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Monitor 1 - Acer 27" Monitor 2 - Acer 27"
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080
    Hard Drives
    WDC PC SN530 SDBPNPZ-512G-1006 (SSD)
    Seagate ST1000DM003-1SB102
    Seagate BUP Slim SCSI Disk Device (SSD)
    PSU
    HP
    Case
    HP
    Cooling
    Standard
    Keyboard
    Logitech Wave K350
    Mouse
    Logitech M705
    Internet Speed
    100 mbps
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    That's all Folks!
  • Operating System
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP
    CPU
    Intel Core i7 (10th gen) 10700
    Motherboard
    Intel
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel UHD Graphics 630
    Sound Card
    Built-in
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Acer 27" & Samsung 24"
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x
    Hard Drives
    SSD (512 GB)
    HDD (1 TB)
    Seagate
    PSU
    Intel i7 10th Generation
    Case
    HP
    Cooling
    HP/Intel?
    Mouse
    Logitech M705
    Keyboard
    Logitech Wave K350
    Internet Speed
    50 mbps
    Browser
    Firefox 90.2
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    Headphone/Microphone Combo
    SuperSpeed USB Type-A (4 on front)
    HP 3-in-One Card Readr
    SuperSpeed USB Type-C
    DVD Writer

Wynona

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Windows 11 20000.613
What concerns me is that Microsoft are trying to compete with/ copy Apple by producing laptops that aren’t upgradeable and have an OS lifespan- and even some of the “look”. Presumably because it’s a lucrative business model.
It's not Microsoft producing laptops that can't be upgraded; it's the OEMs (original equipment manufacturers) such as HP, Dell, Lenovo, Acer, Asus, etc. that product laptops that can only be upgraded (especially RAM and SSD/HDD) by a professional.

I can build my own desktop computer and even upgrade it to a new motherboard, if necessary. I used to be able to add RAM or an SSD/HDD to my laptop when necessary, but when OEMs made it almost impossible to do by people like me, I had to stop messing around with the innards of my laptops.

We may be able to blame Microsoft for some things, but they cannot be blamed for un-upgradeable laptops. :)
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 20000.613
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP Envy TE01-1xxx
    CPU
    ntel(R) Core(TM) i7-10700 CPU @ 2.90GHz 2.90 GHz
    Motherboard
    16.0GB Dual-Channel Unknown @ 1463MHz (21-21-21-47)
    Memory
    16384 MBytes
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel UHD Graphics 630
    Sound Card
    Realtek High Definition Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Monitor 1 - Acer 27" Monitor 2 - Acer 27"
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080
    Hard Drives
    WDC PC SN530 SDBPNPZ-512G-1006 (SSD)
    Seagate ST1000DM003-1SB102
    Seagate BUP Slim SCSI Disk Device (SSD)
    PSU
    HP
    Case
    HP
    Cooling
    Standard
    Keyboard
    Logitech Wave K350
    Mouse
    Logitech M705
    Internet Speed
    100 mbps
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    That's all Folks!
  • Operating System
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP
    CPU
    Intel Core i7 (10th gen) 10700
    Motherboard
    Intel
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel UHD Graphics 630
    Sound Card
    Built-in
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Acer 27" & Samsung 24"
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x
    Hard Drives
    SSD (512 GB)
    HDD (1 TB)
    Seagate
    PSU
    Intel i7 10th Generation
    Case
    HP
    Cooling
    HP/Intel?
    Mouse
    Logitech M705
    Keyboard
    Logitech Wave K350
    Internet Speed
    50 mbps
    Browser
    Firefox 90.2
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    Headphone/Microphone Combo
    SuperSpeed USB Type-A (4 on front)
    HP 3-in-One Card Readr
    SuperSpeed USB Type-C
    DVD Writer

Hazel123

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Windows 10 Pro
It's not Microsoft producing laptops that can't be upgraded; it's the OEMs (original equipment manufacturers) such as HP, Dell, Lenovo, Acer, Asus, etc. that product laptops that can only be upgraded (especially RAM and SSD/HDD) by a professional.

I can build my own desktop computer and even upgrade it to a new motherboard, if necessary. I used to be able to add RAM or an SSD/HDD to my laptop when necessary, but when OEMs made it almost impossible to do by people like me, I had to stop messing around with the innards of my laptops.

We may be able to blame Microsoft for some things, but they cannot be blamed for un-upgradeable laptops. :)
Except the surface laptop :)
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 10 Pro
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP Pavilion 14-ce3514sa
    CPU
    Core i5
    Memory
    8gb
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 970 evo plus 1TB
    Cooling
    Could be better
    Internet Speed
    Dismal
    Browser
    Firefox
    Other Info
    Originally installed with a 500gb H10 Optane ssd
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Asus Eee PC 1015PX 10" netbook
    CPU
    Intel Atom N570
    Memory
    2gb
    Hard Drives
    Samsung Evo 860 250gb ssd
    Internet Speed
    Dismal
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    Defender

tomdsr

Fighting Cancer :(
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4:56 PM
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109
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Little Island Near Seattle
OS
Windows 11

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Self Built
    CPU
    Ryzen 5 3600
    Motherboard
    ASUS Prime X570-P
    Memory
    32gb DDR4 - 3200Mhz
    Graphics Card(s)
    EVGA 2060 Super KO 6GB PCIE 3.0
    Sound Card
    Realtek S1200A
    Monitor(s) Displays
    1. LG 34UM68-P 34-Inch 21:9 UltraWide IPS 2. ONN 24-Inch LCD
    Screen Resolution
    1. 2560 x 1080 2. 1920 x 1080 (side by side 4480 x 1080)
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 860 EVO 1TB SATA III SSD (OS)
    WD BLUE 2TB SATA III (DATA)
    WD BLUE 2TB SATA III (DATA)
    WD BLUE 1TB SATA III (DATA)
    PSU
    Thermaltake Toughpower PF1 750W
    Case
    Coolermaster HAF XB EVO
    Cooling
    Corsair 240mm AIO + 4x 120mm case fans
    Keyboard
    Standard Logitech
    Mouse
    Logitech M535
    Internet Speed
    Gigabit (Cable)
    Browser
    Firefox, Chrome, Edge
    Antivirus
    Defender

Wynona

Well-known member
Power User
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6:56 PM
Posts
1,357
Location
Arkansas
OS
Windows 11 20000.613
Except the surface laptop :)
Well, actually, Microsoft has contracted out the building of the Surface. Regardless, the days of upgrading laptop hardware are pretty much over.

Even so, we can, of course, lump Microsoft in with those who have made it impossible for you and me to add storage or RAM to a laptop.

Why did they do it? Because once the need for more power/storage space happens, we have no choice but to buy a new one. I tell my students who will upgrade their hardware to buy laptops with at least a 500 GB hard/ssd drive and at least 8 GB (preferably 16 GB) RAM.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 20000.613
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP Envy TE01-1xxx
    CPU
    ntel(R) Core(TM) i7-10700 CPU @ 2.90GHz 2.90 GHz
    Motherboard
    16.0GB Dual-Channel Unknown @ 1463MHz (21-21-21-47)
    Memory
    16384 MBytes
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel UHD Graphics 630
    Sound Card
    Realtek High Definition Audio
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Monitor 1 - Acer 27" Monitor 2 - Acer 27"
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x 1080
    Hard Drives
    WDC PC SN530 SDBPNPZ-512G-1006 (SSD)
    Seagate ST1000DM003-1SB102
    Seagate BUP Slim SCSI Disk Device (SSD)
    PSU
    HP
    Case
    HP
    Cooling
    Standard
    Keyboard
    Logitech Wave K350
    Mouse
    Logitech M705
    Internet Speed
    100 mbps
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    That's all Folks!
  • Operating System
    Windows 11
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP
    CPU
    Intel Core i7 (10th gen) 10700
    Motherboard
    Intel
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics card(s)
    Intel UHD Graphics 630
    Sound Card
    Built-in
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Acer 27" & Samsung 24"
    Screen Resolution
    1920 x
    Hard Drives
    SSD (512 GB)
    HDD (1 TB)
    Seagate
    PSU
    Intel i7 10th Generation
    Case
    HP
    Cooling
    HP/Intel?
    Mouse
    Logitech M705
    Keyboard
    Logitech Wave K350
    Internet Speed
    50 mbps
    Browser
    Firefox 90.2
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
    Other Info
    Headphone/Microphone Combo
    SuperSpeed USB Type-A (4 on front)
    HP 3-in-One Card Readr
    SuperSpeed USB Type-C
    DVD Writer

unifex

Active member
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1:56 AM
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251
OS
Windows 10
Most users are not software engineers or programmers, in other words, they never write any code, they just use programs that other people created. For such users, the concept of the "OS" is indistinguishable from the concept of the "user interface", which I maintain are two different things (as evidenced by third-party tools such as "open shell" or "classic shell" - not sure of the correct name - which change the "look and "feel", but obviously do not change the OS itself since that's what they are running on). Therefore for most people the comparison between the macOS (or whatever it's called these days) and Windows *is* the comparison of the user interface, not the OS.

Personally, I hate the Mac user interface. Unlike most people (at least in my experience, yours may differ), I absolutely hate running windows full screen, unless we're talking of a few programs where this really makes sense. So, you'll never see me running a browser or Word or Acrobat or anything like that full screen. Of course, I also hate small monitors, I don't understand the point of 13" laptops where I can't see more then few lines of text without a magnifying glass. This post I'm writing on a 32" monitor and I find running a browser full screen very strange, to put it mildly.

Now, last time I saw a Mac, they separate the menu bar (the strip above a window with buttons and menus) from the window itself, put it on top of the screen, and make it full width of the screen. When you switch to a different window, the contence of that bar changes to reflect the newly selected window. In contrast, Windows attaches the menu bar to each window, so I can have many windows open and each of them will have it's own set of controls. To me, that's the deal breaker - I strongly prefer the Windows system. To me that's even more important than the fact that things I use daily, such as Microsoft Office, work poorly on Macs (and no, no other "free" or "open source" office is an adequate replacement).

Other UI elements I think of as cosmetic, although I prefer them to be "natively customizable" (I don't like running additional software modifying the "look and feel"). Therefore I am not very happy with the most recent changes to the Windows UI, but since it's not the most important thing, I just use whatever Windows is appropriate to my hardware.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    i5-10600K
    Motherboard
    Asus Rog Strix Z490-A Gaming
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    GeForce GTX 1650
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Samsung U32J59x 32" 4K
    Screen Resolution
    3840x2160

unifex

Active member
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Local time
1:56 AM
Posts
251
OS
Windows 10
Now, adding to the discussion of "apps" vs "programs", I'm old enough to remember the time when the word "app" did not exist. The general term was "computer program", some of them were called "utilities" and some "applications", but generally there were "programs". Certainly nobody would call a self-written program tackling a small problem an "application".

Then eventually "personal organizers" and "handheld computers" appeared followed by "smartphones". The latter were not marketed as "computers" and so the concept of "programs" would not be useful, so they settled on "applications", which were then shortened to "apps" by the younger generation. Since then, software vendors decided (and I can't understand why) that their products have to look the same on phones and desktops, hence the proliferation of the word "app" to computers (in the same manner as the appearance of the Microsoft Store which is just copying the Apple App Store, but on desktops). So within this new terminology, yes, any "program" is an "app", at least to young people.

Personally, I hate this trend. I do not need my phone to look the same as my desktop, I don't need to sync my Firefox bookmarks and what not between my desktop and my phone, I don't want the "seamless experience between devices", I want different devices to behave differently because they are, let's face it, different and hence used for different purposes. As a result, I always prefer desktop programs to Store Apps (in fact, I don't think I'm using even one of those). It is just logical then that I hate the word "app" when used in the context of desktop computing.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    i5-10600K
    Motherboard
    Asus Rog Strix Z490-A Gaming
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    GeForce GTX 1650
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Samsung U32J59x 32" 4K
    Screen Resolution
    3840x2160

unifex

Active member
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251
OS
Windows 10
Just an example of why do I hate the concept of the "app store". My kids have a car racing toy - Anki Overdrive - where they are supposed to steer the cars with an app on a phone or a tablet. Just now my son came to me saying that he needs my phone to play since he can't install the appropriate app on his. We have Android phones and that's the Google Play Store we're talking about, but it's just an example. So I look at the Store on my phone, there it is. I do the same on his phone - it's not there! We're in the same room mind you. I look at country settings - the same (Germany). Then I notice that my phone is set in English, but his - in German. I'm telling him - try to set the phone and the Store in English. he does and voila - there's the app.

So, somebody in Google decided that the *language settings* in the phone are so important that your choice of apps in the store crucially depends on it! I don't know about you, but I want to be able to install whatever I want on *my* phone. If a manufacturer of whatever produce - in this case, the toy - decides to make an app, I see no reason why can't I get the app from the said manufacturer, why do I have to bother with the store where apparently such stupid things like language settings decide whether I can get an app or not.
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 10
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    CPU
    i5-10600K
    Motherboard
    Asus Rog Strix Z490-A Gaming
    Memory
    16 GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    GeForce GTX 1650
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Samsung U32J59x 32" 4K
    Screen Resolution
    3840x2160

Hazel123

Well-known member
Member
VIP
Local time
12:56 AM
Posts
848
OS
Windows 10 Pro
Now, adding to the discussion of "apps" vs "programs", I'm old enough to remember the time when the word "app" did not exist. The general term was "computer program", some of them were called "utilities" and some "applications", but generally there were "programs". Certainly nobody would call a self-written program tackling a small problem an "application".

Then eventually "personal organizers" and "handheld computers" appeared followed by "smartphones". The latter were not marketed as "computers" and so the concept of "programs" would not be useful, so they settled on "applications", which were then shortened to "apps" by the younger generation. Since then, software vendors decided (and I can't understand why) that their products have to look the same on phones and desktops, hence the proliferation of the word "app" to computers (in the same manner as the appearance of the Microsoft Store which is just copying the Apple App Store, but on desktops). So within this new terminology, yes, any "program" is an "app", at least to young people.

Personally, I hate this trend. I do not need my phone to look the same as my desktop, I don't need to sync my Firefox bookmarks and what not between my desktop and my phone, I don't want the "seamless experience between devices", I want different devices to behave differently because they are, let's face it, different and hence used for different purposes. As a result, I always prefer desktop programs to Store Apps (in fact, I don't think I'm using even one of those). It is just logical then that I hate the word "app" when used in the context of desktop computing.
Completely agree. I also think the app word became used more when windows 10 came out- along with the Microsoft store - and I remember confusion over whether something was an app or a program and how they functioned differently. And they still do function differently. So to me - is not an app - it’s a program - if it was downloaded and installed from the internet or dvd - and is thus in the controll panel. Which is why control panel is still needed. It’s an app if it comes from the ms store and not in the control panel (and is not a fully functioning program - the app versions are rubbish versions of some full programs). They’re a bit faster - but often glitchy. Eg paint.net. The downloaded program works way better than the app.

This is reminding me why people didn’t like windows 10 when it came out! Some apps are ok and useful but I would only rely on a fully installed program.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 10 Pro
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP Pavilion 14-ce3514sa
    CPU
    Core i5
    Memory
    8gb
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 970 evo plus 1TB
    Cooling
    Could be better
    Internet Speed
    Dismal
    Browser
    Firefox
    Other Info
    Originally installed with a 500gb H10 Optane ssd
  • Operating System
    Windows 11 Home
    Computer type
    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Asus Eee PC 1015PX 10" netbook
    CPU
    Intel Atom N570
    Memory
    2gb
    Hard Drives
    Samsung Evo 860 250gb ssd
    Internet Speed
    Dismal
    Browser
    Firefox
    Antivirus
    Defender

Singleton

Member
Local time
5:56 PM
Posts
46
OS
Windows 11 Pro
We are only as old as we feel. I don't see myself as old. I see myself as being 66 years young.
Heh, well that's true enough. But I have to assume my Grandkids are honest. :wink:

We're the same age, however!
 

My Computer

System One

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    PowerSpec G435
    CPU
    i7-10700K
    Motherboard
    ASRock Z490 Phantom Gaming 4/ax
    Memory
    64GB DDR4
    Graphics Card(s)
    NVIDIA Geforce RTX 2070 Super
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Dell S3220DGF
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440
    Hard Drives
    1TB WDC .M2 Nvme SSD
    4TB Samsung 870 SSD
    PSU
    750 Watt Gold
    Case
    Lian Li ATX 205
    Cooling
    Thermal-Take Water Cooled CPU
    Keyboard
    Corsair K70 RGB
    Mouse
    Razer Basilisk X
    Internet Speed
    Gigabit
    Browser
    Brave
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender
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