Solved 22H2? 23H2? What updates do what in MS madness?

glasskuter · Oct 12, 2023

I am sooo confused. Can someone explain this to me.
Last night I upgraded my husband's computer from Windows 10 to Windows 11 using a release version 22H2 iso I downloaded MONTHS ago (back in May). During the upgrade process it checked for updates. When it finally booted into Windows 11, winver shows 23H2 22631.2428. Nowhere in windows update history does KB5031354 show it's been applied. In fact when I checked for updates , the latest one that applied was the August cumulative KB5029244. No Sept cumulative offered at all.

On the other hand I have been running release version of 11 on my computer since the beginning. KB5031354 automatically applied on Tuesday yet my version is 22H2 22621.2428.

Both devices have "get updates as soon as they are available" set to OFF.

What in heck made his system be 23H2??? How did the enablement package get applied on his PC, yet I do not have it on mine?
Not that I care, but I would like to understand Microsoft's madness.

FreeBooter · Oct 12, 2023

That is weird as you know 23H2 only released to insiders did you get all the new features of 23H2 i want to say the ISO file is 23H2 but its old ISO file.

pjhutch · Oct 12, 2023

You can get 23H2 if you have joined the Windows Insider or that you have enabled 'Get the latest updates as soon as they are available' in the Settings, Windows Update. It also depends on which area, country you are in as MS rmay have a region by region rolling release of the update, so not everyone gets it at the same time.
See A Step-by-Step Guide to Downloading and Installing the Windows 11 23H2 Update
or How to Download and Install the Windows 11 23H2 Update .

Bree · Oct 12, 2023

glasskuter said:
What in heck made his system be 23H2??? How did the enablement package get applied on his PC, yet I do not have it on mine?
Not that I care, but I would like to understand Microsoft's madness.

Yes, an in-place upgrade with the RTM 22H2 install media that's allowed to check for updates finds the Enablement Package and installs it. I've tested and confirmed that. See post #1,569 here:

Let's install Windows 11 on incompatible hardware

FWIW, the appraserres trick still works for today's Dev build release. So far the only build that the old methods don't work for is the current Canary build. It also still works if: To get version 23H2 right now, go to Microsoft's link, the standard download page, go to "Create Windows 11...

www.elevenforum.com

If you want to go back to 22621, then you can uninstall the Enablement Package.

FreeBooter said:
That is weird as you know 23H2 only released to insiders did you get all the new features of 23H2....

All the new features were in the .2428 Patch Tuesday CU, I already have Copilot on some of my RTM 22H2 machines. The 23H2 Enablement Package adds nothing new, as far as I can see. It just ups the build from 22621.2428 to 22631.2428 and extends the support life by a year.

Bree said:
....looks like MS have marked it as hidden from Windows Update for the RTM channel, but forgotten that Window Update isn't the only RTM process that checks for updates - an in-place upgrade does too

FreeBooter · Oct 12, 2023

I'm on 22H2 i have Copilot which i enabled using ViVeTool tool.

Bree · Oct 12, 2023

FreeBooter said:
I'm on 22H2 i have Copilot which i enabled using ViVeTool tool.

I have three supported devices on 22H2, of those two got Copilot without me having to do anything. I think it's another one of those 'we'll gradually roll it out' features.

FreeBooter · Oct 12, 2023

Bree said:
I have three supported devices on 22H2, of those two got Copilot without me having to do anything. I think it's another one of those 'we'll gradually roll it out' features.

Well without me enabling it i would not have it, i think it's do with which country you live at.

glasskuter · Oct 12, 2023

pjhutch said:
get 23H2 if you have joined the Windows Insider

No

pjhutch said:
that you have enabled 'Get the latest updates as soon as they are available

and No

Bree said:
Yes, an in-place upgrade with the RTM 22H2 install media that's allowed to check for updates finds the Enablement Package and installs it. I've tested and confirmed that. See post #1,569 here

Thank you @Bree! I'm glad I'm not crazy but I'm beginning to believe the MS powers that be are smoking the wacky weed. How they can take something so simple as updates and upgrades and cause such confusion with them is beyond me. I'm beginning to believe for every decision they make,they take another puff and fall in the floor giggling, knowing they're making it as confusing as possible.

antspants · Oct 12, 2023

glasskuter said:
No

and No

Thank you @Bree! I'm glad I'm not crazy but I'm beginning to believe the MS powers that be are smoking the wacky weed. How they can take something so simple as updates and upgrades and cause such confusion with them is beyond me. I'm beginning to believe for every decision they make,they take another puff and fall in the floor giggling, knowing they're making it as confusing as possible.

More than likely overlooked and more than likely they’ll either patch it from happening or just leave it as it’s due to be rolled out soon anyway. I doubt it was a conscious decision for it to work as @Bree has shown us.
But they might be on whacky weed lol

Josey Wales · Oct 12, 2023

I have all of the new features except the ones I removed.

antspants · Oct 13, 2023

Bree said:
Yes, an in-place upgrade with the RTM 22H2 install media that's allowed to check for updates finds the Enablement Package and installs it. I've tested and confirmed that. See post #1,569 here:

Let's install Windows 11 on incompatible hardware

FWIW, the appraserres trick still works for today's Dev build release. So far the only build that the old methods don't work for is the current Canary build. It also still works if: To get version 23H2 right now, go to Microsoft's link, the standard download page, go to "Create Windows 11...

www.elevenforum.com

If you want to go back to 22621, then you can uninstall the Enablement Package.

All the new features were in the .2428 Patch Tuesday CU, I already have Copilot on some of my RTM 22H2 machines. The 23H2 Enablement Package adds nothing new, as far as I can see. It just ups the build from 22621.2428 to 22631.2428 and extends the support life by a year.

Trying it now.
Checking for updates is already at 5min (37%) on a 115Mbps connection so I can only assume it’s downloading something.
I am using an ISO I just downloaded from Microsoft, I downloaded two.
- The on-line Multi install ISO
- The Media Creation Tool ISO which is obviously smaller.
I’ve gone with the multi install. Both have been placed on 32GB USB using Rufus 4.2

Install asked if I wanted to keep apps & files, I said yes. Then failed at the Blue upgrade window at 2% i stall.

jimbo45 · Oct 13, 2023

The whole insider mess is a real dogs dinner (sorry dogs that's being unkind to you) or a pigs ear.

Seems there are now 4 insider streams -- all of which get conflicting flighting - there's no consistency or progression on what is offered - and I suppose the Bog standard 22000 release is still around too 21H1 level - can't remember.

Surely - OK they want to try out new stuff which may or may not make it to eventual builds -- so Canary channel --OK I get that one as "an experimental build". Then stuff they think is stable enough with some stuff cloned from canary- although still might have errors - and finally a pre-RTM type of release. I.e "Testing", "Unstable" and "Stable" sort of idea. So people know what they are getting. It's obvious even on this forum people even on the SAME builds aren't getting all of the features or updates. How in the world can you run a successful strategy if you've got 1000's out there with different stuff given by WU. We aren't thinking about eseoteric and unusual hardware - but just WINDOWS !!!!!!!

C'mon Ms -- put a sock in it and sort this unholy mess out NOW. !!!!! please.

As a primary Linux user - where actually this stuff is handled on most mainstream disrtos perfectly sensibly I have to really laugh when people say I avoid using Linux because it's too difficult to use or maintain.

(Can't be much simpler than to simply type sudo pacman -Syu- ! or apt upgrade etc !!!!) - and if you want to go back there's a daily archive on most distros where you can re-set the system back to that date

Here's a post on tenforums that I made on this very topic a couple of years ago

Roll back to or update systm to specific date - Arch Linux VM's - Windows 10 Help Forums

Hi there I know a load here also experiment with Linux VM's Arch Linux makes it really simple and automatic via the pacman package manager- if updating your system has broken it or if you only want to update the system to a specific date since something h

www.tenforums.com

Cheers
jimbo

antspants · Oct 13, 2023

jimbo45 said:
The whole insider mess is a real dogs dinner (sorry dogs that's being unkind to you) or a pigs ear.

It would appear so.

I’m trying again with my non insider Wn11

Where Rufus has twice failed at 2% install process, modifying the downloaded Windows 11 Multi Install ISO with a modified empty appraiserres.dll file, is installing, directly using the ISO (not on a Rufus created usb)
Same process as above, except the failure notice hasn’t popped up at 2% during the Windows install (blue screen) upgrade process window.

Currently at 78% install. Interesting IMO

jimbo45 · Oct 13, 2023

antspants said:
It would appear so.

I’m trying again with my non insider Wn11

Where Rufus has twice failed at 2% install process, modifying the downloaded Windows 11 Multi Install ISO with a modified empty appraiserres.dll file, is installing, directly using the ISO (not on a Rufus created usb)
Same process as above, except the failure notice hasn’t popped up at 2% during the Windows install (blue screen) upgrade process window.

Currently at 78% install. Interesting IMO

The other way that usually works is to create a vhdx file and install via dism /Apply-Image and then install the bootloader.

I do it via VM's now and then clone to real hardware - that always seems to work best for me - and if it fails on the VM then it saves messing about on the "Real system".

Cheers
jimbo

antspants · Oct 13, 2023

jimbo45 said:
The other way that usually works is to create a vhdx file and install via dism /Apply-Image and then install the bootloader.

I do it via VM's now and then clone to real hardware - that always seems to work best for me - and if it fails on the VM then it saves messing about on the "Real system".

Cheers
jimbo

Cheers, Jimbo. I’ll have to look into that. I’m a little slow on the uptake for new process. However the above mentioned process is now at updates phase, which is a far size greater than the Rufus dying at 2% initial screen. This is for the purpose of seeing if the result is 23H2

A fresh install for me can take under 10min. This in-place upgrade is very very slow.

antspants · Oct 13, 2023

jimbo45 said:
I do it via VM's now and then clone to real hardware - that always seems to work best for me - and if it fails on the VM then it saves messing about on the "Real system".

Cheers
jimbo

This is a great idea!

jimbo45 · Oct 13, 2023

antspants said:
This is a great idea!

Hi there
You might the ist time after cloning back to a physical machine have to install also the REAL hardware drivers too == and you can leave the VM Virtual hardware drivers in - e.g vmware-tools or whatever doesn't cause any harm. Then when the next build comes along just reverse clone back to the VM, run your update and re-clone to back to physical machine.

Some gaming apps might not work very well on a VM - but that's not really the point - one just wants the base updates and you can test / install gaming stuff on the real machine. Once you've installed all the apps and hardware you want on the physical machine just cloning into VM, update and clone back should work.

Cheers
jimbo

antspants · Oct 13, 2023

jimbo45 said:
Hi there
You might the ist time after cloning back to a physical machine have to install also the REAL hardware drivers too == and you can leave the VM Virtual hardware drivers in - e.g vmware-tools or whatever doesn't cause any harm. Then when the next build comes along just reverse clone back to the VM, run your update and re-clone to back to physical machine.

Some gaming apps might not work very well on a VM - but that's not really the point - one just wants the base updates and you can test / install gaming stuff on the real machine. Once you've installed all the apps and hardware you want on the physical machine just cloning into VM, update and clone back should work.

Cheers
jimbo

So to re in-force the findings of @Bree & @glasskuter regarding an in-place upgrade for non-insders Win 11 version.

Windows Multi-Install ISO with a modified (empty) appraiserres.dll file (using an old version of AnyBurn Pro)
Mounted ISO from my D: drive.

Before upgrade/after upgrade

from 22H2 build 22621.2428 to 23H2 22631.2428

psikofunkster · Oct 15, 2023

I'm confused too, was 23h2 already released officially? From what i've been reading here it is still on preview channel, then why many tech sites say it was already released officially?

I'm on 22H2 and i have pre copilot installed automatically last week...

Dirtyflash · Oct 15, 2023

psikofunkster said:
I'm confused too, was 23h2 already released officially? From what i've been reading here it is still on preview channel, then why many tech sites say it was already released officially?

Everyone is confused, 22H2 build 22621.2428 and 23H2 22631.2428 are essentially the same thing, the only difference worth noting is 23H2 gets an additional year of support.

Build 2500 is only for 22621 and not meant as a CU for 22631, if that's of any interest.

There's no point in trying to figure out what MS is thinking.