Defrag/Trim


Yeah, we're getting a little bit into the weeds here. Strictly speaking, it is true that NVMe does not support a TRIM command. It uses a deallocate command. This is because NVMe and SATA speak different protocols, kind of like comparing Python and C#. The end result is for all intents and purposes the same.
 

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abactuon said:
I am interested in whether the nvme drive сontroller has a built in garbage collection function like for sata ssd drives.
Click to expand...
Yes - as noted above, the names may be different, but rest assured that NVMe SSDs of course support that same capability. Could you imagine going backwards and having flash media that didn't support this in this day and age?

EDIT: I'm excluding thumb drives from this statement. Yuck, what a horrible and inefficient medium :-)
 

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I'm unaware of any modern SSDs, whether SATA or NVMe that do not have active garbage collection capabilities. I'm tempted to say that nothing like that exists any longer, but in the world of cheap junk and "fake" drive capacities, etc. , I've been proved wrong before.

Any even remotely reputable drive brand will have this capability.
 

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Ghot said:
Microsoft fixed that issue (on Win 10), early 2021.
Click to expand...

Do you have a reference for that?

I know, from the Event records of my Windows 10 computer, that re-trim is no longer limited to monthly but I had not seen any announcement of a change.


Happy New Year,
Denis
 

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Try3 said:
Do you have a reference for that?

I know, from the Event records of my Windows 10 computer, that re-trim is no longer limited to monthly but I had not seen any announcement of a change.


Happy New Year,
Denis
Click to expand...


I was referring to the issue with Optimize, where it kept forgetting it had just optimized a few hours before.
Seems the "Never Run" issue I was thinking of, got fixed late 2020, not early 2021.

Defragment & Optimize Drives Reports "Never run" - Windows 10 Help Forums

Since upgrading to Windows 10 2004, I have encountered an issue with the tool Defragment & Optimize Drives. First of all, let me state that I have a SSD and realize that defragmentation is not needed. However, I find it odd that the tool reports &quot
www.tenforums.com www.tenforums.com

...and Happy New year. :)
 
Last edited:

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KevTech said:
12/24
The storage optimizer successfully completed defragmentation on Storage (D)
The storage optimizer successfully completed retrim on Storage (D)
The storage optimizer successfully completed defragmentation on 11 (C)
The storage optimizer successfully completed retrim on 11 (C)
12/17
The storage optimizer successfully completed defragmentation on Storage (D)
The storage optimizer successfully completed retrim on Storage (D)
The storage optimizer successfully completed defragmentation on 11 (C)
The storage optimizer successfully completed retrim on 11 (C)
Click to expand...

Kev has identified a new behaviour. The quoted post indicates that defragmentation [not just re-trim] is being run weekly on his two SSDs. In Windows 10, that would only have run monthly even if Optimization [C:\Windows\System32\dfrgui.exe] had been set to weekly.

In Windows 10 the less-than-straightforward behaviour was described in SSD Trim Windows 10 - TenForums, which cross-refers to the same MS article that Kev's sister found.
- Kev's sister's internal investigation indicates that MS believe that nothing has changed in Windows 10 & that Windows 11 behaves the same way.

What are other people finding?
- The data is in Event viewer, Application log, Source - Defrag.
- Does the description in the General/Details tab record "defragmentation" [rather than just "re-trim"] happening weekly or still just monthly?
- The difference is only distinguished in that event description.
- Re-trim entries will exist weekly.
- My own Windows 11 testbed computer is not being used enough to be a useful example. Even in Windows 10 it never once recorded an SSD defrag taking place and I haven't seen it on my main laptop either [it uses Windows 10].

Denis
 
Last edited:

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If you have a home computer, it is easier to do manual optimization. Remove the disk optimization task.

The task is started as 'SYSTEM' ?
 
Last edited:

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abactuon said:
If you have a home computer, it is easier to do manual optimization. Remove the disk optimization task.

The task is started as 'SYSTEM' ?
Click to expand...
How is doing it manually easier than just letting it do its job automatically. If you do not want it to be done as frequently, just change setting!
 

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I'm a little bit perplexed by this whole discussion. We are now 31 posts into this thread which started as worries about the frequency of defrag / retrim operations. We've determined that things are working as expected. That should pretty much be the end of it. If some sort of problem was evident or if we were dealing with an unusual use case scenario, then there might be legitimate reasons to change the default behavior.

So far, I've not seen anything presented that would cause one to conclude that there is any problem needing to be addressed here.

If you want to change the default behavior simply for personal preference, by all means, go for it. However, in my opinion, I usually find that settings for system activities such as this are very carefully chosen and would typically suggest simply leaving it alone unless you have a reason to change it. Not everything that can be changed needs to be changed :-).
 

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hsehestedt said:
I'm a little bit perplexed by this whole discussion. We are now 31 posts into this thread which started as worries about the frequency of defrag / retrim operations. We've determined that things are working as expected. That should pretty much be the end of it. If some sort of problem was evident or if we were dealing with an unusual use case scenario, then there might be legitimate reasons to change the default behavior.
Click to expand...

That was not quite the issue.

The issue was the apparent change in [default] behaviour compared to Windows 10 & MS's published documentation.

Nobody has "determined that things are working as expected". Things are not "working as expected".
- The OP's OP did not explain what was being experienced. The OP's post #8 was the first to identify the changed behaviour.
- According to MS, defragmenting the SSDs should not have been taking place weekly even though optimization was set to take place weekly.
- I tried to explain this in my post #28 above.

All the best,
Denis
 

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Try3 said:
That was not quite the issue.

The issue was the apparent change in [default] behaviour compared to Windows 10 & MS's published documentation.

Nobody has "determined that things are working as expected". Things are not "working as expected".
- The OP's OP did not explain what was being experienced. The OP's post #8 was the first to identify the changed behaviour.
- According to MS, defragmenting the SSDs should not have been taking place weekly even though optimization was set to take place weekly.
- I tried to explain this in my post #28 above.

All the best,
Denis
Click to expand...
Who cares - it does not cause any issues trimming once a week.

People do not understand what the monthly SSD defrag/trim is all about - it is not a full defrag of ssd, but a partial defrag to keep the NTFS file system in tip top condition. It is not about moving files like on an HDD.

Simple terms:

The weekly trim is used to ensure wear and tear is averaged out. This function is needed - only issue is how often? For a light user, once a month may be ok, but why bother change frequency?

The monthly function ensures the NTFS file system does not get excessively fragmented. It is debatable if this is ever even really needed for an average user.


I cannot see any more point in discussing this - it is all pointless.

Windows 11 is doing it correctly - W10 was always a bit wonky.
 

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So to clarify..., SSD's are not actually being defragmented but rather the deleted blocks of data are being trimmed ready for re-use, whereas a mechanical HDD has the deleted blocks of data physically removed to allow for re-writing? Perhaps Microsoft need to make this more clear in the Defragmenting Tool?

Some definitive clarification would be useful here as I too am now a little concerned by the latest comments. Indeed what drew me to this post in the first instance was this Q&A extracted from the Samsung website, this suggest disabling defragmentation:

Screenshot 2021-12-29 123209.png
 

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Slinky said:
So to clarify..., SSD's are not actually being defragmented
Click to expand...
Incorrect. According to the MS reference, SSDs are defragged monthly if Optimization is set to weekly. The OP's posted results indicate that they are actually being defragged weekly despite what the MS reference says.

Denis
 

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Windows 11 Home x64 Version 25H2 Build 26200....
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So with the advice from Samsung in mind, should I disabled the disk defragmenter for my SSD? If so how will the trim feature work?
 

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Slinky said:
So with the advice from Samsung in mind, should I disabled the disk defragmenter for my SSD?
Click to expand...
It's entirely up to you whether you follow Samsung's advice or let Windows do what MS think is best.
I have a five year old SSD that I've always let Windows manage and it has only used a few percent of its life. So it will outlive both the computer & me.

Slinky said:
If so how will the trim feature work?
Click to expand...
Perhaps Samsung have advice about that in their 'SSD magician' settings.

Denis
 

My Computer My Computer

At a glance

Windows 11 Home x64 Version 25H2 Build 26200....
OS
Windows 11 Home x64 Version 25H2 Build 26200.8037
Slinky said:
So to clarify..., SSD's are not actually being defragmented but rather the deleted blocks of data are being trimmed ready for re-use, whereas a mechanical HDD has the deleted blocks of data physically removed to allow for re-writing? Perhaps Microsoft need to make this more clear in the Defragmenting Tool?

Some definitive clarification would be useful here as I too am now a little concerned by the latest comments. Indeed what drew me to this post in the first instance was this Q&A extracted from the Samsung website, this suggest disabling defragmentation:

View attachment 17141
Click to expand...
This proves my point that very few understand what an ssd defrag is.
 

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ASUS Zenbook 14
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Macrium Reflect Home V8
Office 365 Family (6 users each 1TB onedrive space)
Hyper-V (a vm runs almost as fast as my older laptop)
Does anybody have any results to post for the OP in response to my post #28 above?

Denis
 

My Computer My Computer

At a glance

Windows 11 Home x64 Version 25H2 Build 26200....
OS
Windows 11 Home x64 Version 25H2 Build 26200.8037
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