Solved Installation of Win 11 on incompatible Win 10 CPU

mecanicogolf said:

I turned off Core Isolation. Right now I don't see much difference, but I'll keep using it without it on for a while and see if it makes a big difference.
What could happen to my PC if it's off? I hate leaving it less secure and if I see little or no difference, I'll slide her back on.

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Here is a good article explaining Core Isolation and other Windows security measures:


BTW, sorry to hear that you have received flack for running Win 11 on technically unsupported hardware. I usually like to point out to people to do so with caution, basically just go in with your eyes open and realize that someday there may be difficulties with future updates that we cannot predict. However, I would venture to say that most of us here are enthusiasts who don't always color within the lines . We're here to help each other use, troubleshoot, and sometimes hack Windows to suit our purposes even if not 100% the way Microsoft intended.

Don't let some negative feedback discourage you. Ignore the non-believers!

In my case, for example, I have Windows 11 installed on about a dozen machines, and I think that only about two of them are technically within supported specs. A couple of my machines are at least 10 years old . However, Win 11 works absolutely great on every single one of those systems. Should I have problems in the future, I'm willing accept that because I've gone in knowing the risk in advance.

mecanicogolf said:

What could happen to my PC if it's off? I hate leaving it less secure....

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Core Isolation and Memory Integrity have been available for all in Windows 10 since 2018, before that it was only available in the Enterprise editions. This How-To Geek article is a good introduction to what extra protection it provides.

On Win 10, it would turn off by itself some times. Using it on Win 11 (same PC) it stays on ALL the time and doesn't seem to slow it down. It warns me on Win 11 if I turn it off, which can be dismissed, but I leave it on. But, as we all know, if the future brings problems, I just go back and that's that.
Thank you all for the useful info. You've built my confidence on this site back up a few notches.

Two key factors that will probably influence the 'On' or 'Off' decision for users are how important it is to them to maximise their PC's performance; and the impact it may have on software capability, i.e. How much 'less efficient' might a specific hardware/software configuration be when having these and/or other MS 'Guard' features activated?

As one example; Tested! Here's how much the new Windows security features hurt PC performance

There are plenty of similar analyses around the net; and, from the consistency of findings, it seems clear that both the vintage of user hardware and the main purpose of an individual PC will be key influencing factors, e.g. avid gamers and Windows 11 users with hardware that does not fully meet the 'minimum recommended spec' may not consider any performance hit to be of benefit. Also the Microsoft developers' tendency to make exclusive use of hardware acceleration features in the design of these security features is known to impact negatively on some 3rd-party software products, e.g. virtualisation software, and security applications (anti-virus, anti-Malware) products that also want direct access to a PC's hardware acceleration functionality for maximum performance.

Hi folks
I installed it as a VM "poodlefaking" the cpu to one which is supported in W11 and then imaged the machine and restored on to an HP envy laptop with an I5 Gen 6 CPU which definitely isn't supported -- no problem -- W11 works just fine and updates properly too.




Here's the CPU I "poodlefaked" in the VM config. The VM also has an Emulated TPM V2 as well. I'm sure there's mechanisms in HYPER-V for doing this as well when creating a VM.



After ist boot into the real system Windows can grab drivers it needs. If you have any problems booting the restored image simply boot any windows iso / macrium(pe version) that allows boot into command line, and run bcdboot to re-install the boot loader of the restored windows system.

The CPU though must have a minimum of 2 cores and be 64 bit capable. Memory must be a min or 4GB (which I allocated to the VM) and Disk space for the VM itself i.e the Windows system a minimum of 48GB.

I prefer this method as I don't have to re-install apps again !!! also if the VM doesn't work I just ditch it without having compromised a running machine. I don't like fiddling with the registry or messing around with dll's etc as these can have totally unpredictable effects on both the OS and applications and can't be guaranteed to continue working on any Windows update,

An i5 gen 6 CPU on a laptop is still perfectly OK for 99% of things I need Windows for -- If W11 starts making the machine run slow or other problems I'll just use it as a NAS or VM testbed - I'm waiting to see if Amazon etc will have any "Black Friday" deals this year. With people's budgets under stress from places as different as N.Z and Iceland including also Canada and USA there could be some good bargains to be bagged later on.

Cheers
jimbo

Jimbo, just out of curiosity, why go through all the extra work of installing to a VM, creating an image, then restoring the image to a physical PC? Why not simply install to that physical PC right from the start?

I'm not trying to judge your method, just curious because maybe I can learn something

My first system is a dual core laptop, a Vista era model, some generations before the first generation Intel Core i3 etc. My main computer is a third generation Intel Core-i7. Both running Windows 11 on Legacy BIOS (MBR) without UEFI, without Secure Boot, without TPM. No problems at all. Both are updated to the latest Windows updates, even the optional ones without any issue. Both are much newer than the oldest possible system I have successfully installed Windows 11 on. It was a desktop computer with Intel Pentium 4 6xx CPU (the very first Intel 64-bit series), 2GB RAM and an old IDE hard disk. So don't think about it. If you have a 64-bit system with at least 2GB RAM it is capable of running Windows 11. The exception is the first generation AMD 64 CPUs that lack some required instructions and cannot run Windows 8 64-bit or newer. They are limited to Windows 7 64-bit or Windows 10 32-bit.

HDL said:

I do not feel comfortable doing anything like you're suggesting in the last parts of your post

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That's fine. Don't do anything you won't feel comfortable with. Leaving those 2 drivers installed has no effect on the operation of your system, they may be installed but nothing is ever likely to actually use them.

They only need to be removed should you wish to enable Core Isolation/Memory Integrity, and your system can work fine without that.

This is a good overview of what extra level of protection they provide. If you feel it's of little further benefit to you then by all means leave things as they are. I've tried to make clear what your options are, only you can decide if it's worth pursuing them all.

Bree said:

That's fine. Don't do anything you won't feel comfortable with. Leaving those 2 drivers installed has no effect on the operation of your system, they may be installed but nothing is ever likely to actually use them.

They only need to be removed should you wish to enable Core Isolation/Memory Integrity, and your system can work fine without that.

This is a good overview of what extra level of protection they provide. If you feel it's of little further benefit to you then by all means leave things as they are. I've tried to make clear what your options are, only you can decide if it's worth pursuing them all.

What Are "Core Isolation" and "Memory Integrity" in Windows 10?

Windows 10's April 2018 Update brings "Core Isolation" and "Memory Integrity" security features to everyone.

www.howtogeek.com

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Any advice on how to remove uninstalled drivers from the Driver Store?

They can prevent enabling Core Isolation, even if they were part of software that has been uninstalled.

My personal favorite way to do this is by using an application called "Driver Store Explorer" also known as RAPR.

It's a free app that you can download here:


Some usage tips:

NOTE: This procedure will NOT delete drivers that are in use on your system. It will only delete old versions of drivers and drivers not used by your system.

• After extracting the ZIP file contents to a folder, run RAPR.EXE
• Click any driver in the main window, press CTRL-A to select all drivers, and finally click inside any one of the check boxes. You should see all drivers become checked.
• To the right of the main window, make sure that “Force Deletion” is NOT checked, and then click the “Delete Driver” button.
• You will be asked if you are sure. Click on “OK”.
• After a little while you should get an error saying that some drivers could not be removed from the driver store. This is fine – this is simply a notification that indicates that any of the drivers that are in use were not deleted.
• Click “OK”.
• Close the program.

spapakons said:

The exception is the first generation AMD 64 CPUs that lack some required instructions and cannot run Windows 8 64-bit or newer. They are limited to Windows 7 64-bit or Windows 10 32-bit.

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actually spapakons those Socket 940 based AMD CPUs can run Win8.0 64bit [NT 6.2] but not Win8.1 64bit [NT 6.3] & higher due to the "cmpxchg16b", "lahf/sahf", and "prefetchw" cpu requirements

bobkn said:

Any advice on how to remove uninstalled drivers from the Driver Store?

They can prevent enabling Core Isolation, even if they were part of software that has been uninstalled.

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this is one good reason why I use the DriverStore Explorer [RAPR] app to check for old drivers from the driver store that I need to truly remove

erpster4 said:

(snip)

this is one good reason why I use the DriverStore Explorer [RAPR] app to check for old drivers from the driver store that I need to truly remove

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I've done the same. I find it unfortunate that it has been necessary. I'm nothing like a Windows expert, but having drivers retained like that seems like a very unfortunate design choice.

bobkn said:

I've done the same. I find it unfortunate that it has been necessary. I'm nothing like a Windows expert, but having drivers retained like that seems like a very unfortunate design choice.

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Actually, retaining drivers like that makes perfect sense (at least in my mind). First, if a device is removed and then later reintroduced to the system, the driver is immediately available.

As for older versions of drivers, this allows for the ability to easily rollback to a previous driver as can be accomplished from Device Manager.

However, I'll admit that it can get a bit out of hand at times, and it would be nice if there was some facility to manage these built right into the GUI.

hsehestedt said:

Actually, retaining drivers like that makes perfect sense (at least in my mind). First, if a device is removed and then later reintroduced to the system, the driver is immediately available.

As for older versions of drivers, this allows for the ability to easily rollback to a previous driver as can be accomplished from Device Manager.

However, I'll admit that it can get a bit out of hand at times, and it would be nice if there was some facility to manage these built right into the GUI.

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Retaining old drivers is a convenience that I'd prefer to be without.

bobkn said:

Retaining old drivers is a convenience that I'd prefer to be without.

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Understood!

bobkn said:

Some Microsoft people have hinted, darkly, that future Win 11 updates will not be installed on PCs that do not meet the official requirements. It has not happened, so far.

I expect there will be work-arounds, if the threat ever comes to pass.

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As you see, this was a lie. You certainly can.

You can install Windows 11 21H2, 22H2 and 23H2 on any computer with a 64-bit CPU (except for first generation AMD 64 CPUs that lack certain instructions) with at least 1GB RAM (2GB to have reasonable speed) and 32GB minimum hard disk space, if you bypass compatibility check. That is basically all systems than can run Windows 8 64-bit and higher. They say that Windows 11 24H2 (coming this October or November) will have an additional requirement for SSE4.2 and PopCnt instructions. This is any 64-bit CPU from 2012 or newer. Older CPUs without PopCnt support will have to hack the kernel, if possible. I will do some experiments with my test laptop (see 1st system specs) that doesn't support PopCnt and if I find a workaround I will post at the relevant threads.

So many numbers!!! And hardly a post does not include someplace the word "Updates". It's enough to make an old man's hair turn grey.
I'm already 80 yrs old and I don't need anything complicating my life or my computers, therefore....
I've turned off updates, a long time ago, and my life is so much simpler and more enjoyable.
OH, and I've dumped Microsoft and all their BS, a long time ago too!
Now I can just sit back and enjoy my well tweaked Win-11, and not have to worry about some update coming along and screwing it up. I've been there, and done that. Didn't get the T-Shirt though.

There are other very trustworthy companies that turn out a nice clean version of Windows 11, without all the MS BS, hate and discontent, and (choking) Updates. And the only system requirement is, that it be 64 bit capable.
Like the old Alka-Seltzer commercial used to say, "OH, what a relief it is!"

All my computers are OLD, by any standard, and those that are 64 bit capable run Windows 11/Pro/64 just fine.
On the few PC's that I have, that will not run a 64 bit OS, I install Windows 10/Pro/32, which installs and runs just fine. And in most ways, closely approximates Windows 11. And, runs every program that I would run on Win-11. And a few, that Won't run on Win-11.

I have one strategy that always works for me.... "KISS" (keep it simple, stupid!) The more complicated you make something, the more likely it is to FAIL. To me, VM's and BM's are very similar, , , they both Stink!
And, Microsoft has made Windows 11 a quagmire of complexities. While the core logic remains as solid as a rock.
Strange, but after repairing computers, both mainframes and PC's, for 40+ years, my hobby now, in retirement, is playing with different versions of the Windows OS. To date, my favorite OS is the "X-Lite, Optimum 11/Pro/64, 23H2, V5" It's small, fast and a total pleasure to work with. And, it never hangs, freezes or Crashes. Did I mention that it's the Fastest OS I've ever used?

Cheers Mates!
TechnoMage

When properly applied, Technology can seem like Magic!

Good point, but a Computer Technician like me cannot afford to turn off updates. I have to get the latest to be familiar with so I can help my customers. Also I must get any possible issues and learn how to overcome them, so I don't waste time searching for a solution when a customer has the same issue. Thankfully threads such as Elevenforum and Tenforums help a lot to learn all what I have to learn. And I teach others too.

TechnoMage2021 said:

When properly applied, Technology can seem like Magic!

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I think my signature quote from Arthur C Clarke has developed an echo in here.