Planning A New Build in late January.

Lance1 · Mar 24, 2024

SmokeMe said:
Goodwill of Orange County Computer Works sometimes has great Video Cards in stock/offers

Scannerman · Mar 24, 2024

Lance1 said:
Your just yanking' my chain? I thought I felt my collar getting tight Buy used! I don't think I would take a chance on a used GPU. You never know what your going to get. But each to there own. I already downloaded the driver and the DDU. Just getting ready! I just checked the Tracking Number and it already in transport.

Admittedly, My Sapphire Nitro + RX590 was purchased brand new as was my NVIDIA 1070. I have however purchased used GFX cards in the past and they have performed well and clock well too. Depending on who you buy from it really doesn't have to be that risky as there is generally a return policy with more reputable sellers. I've never had to return a used GFX card but I wish I could say the same for buying new. Sometimes 'tried and tested' is a better choice even with used hardware.

martyfelker · Mar 24, 2024

Lance1 said:
Well! After debating between AMD and Intel... I went with Intel. AMD has more bad press than Intel as I have found so my choice buying from Newegg is Intel. I am not a gamer but like a clean display watching movies so my Asus R9290X-DC2OC-4GD5 GPU provides that for me. That is the only add in form my old build. So my question is... Did I make the right choice in my build? I'm at under $1300.00 but would entertain $1500.00. To $1800.00 Keep this in Newegg Canadian please. So what do you think? Is what I have chosen the best for my build? Comments!

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For my new computer, I went with AMD. In fact, I hope never to have an Intel processor ever.

Lance1 · Mar 24, 2024

Scannerman said:
Admittedly, My Sapphire Nitro + RX590 was purchased brand new as was my NVIDIA 1070. I have however purchased used GFX cards in the past and they have performed well and clock well too. Depending on who you buy from it really doesn't have to be that risky as there is generally a return policy with more reputable sellers. I've never had to return a used GFX card but I wish I could say the same for buying new. Sometimes 'tried and tested' is a better choice even with used hardware.

Buying new isn't always a granite your right. I've had a number of parts DOA and having to RMA. Made to last is in the past. I have to remind myself that My R9 290X was in a free box at a garage sale and it is still a very good card. It is interesting that that care requires an 8 and 6 pin power input as the RTX 4060 only needs an 8 pin power input.

Lance1 · Mar 24, 2024

martyfelker said:
For my new computer, I went with AMD. In fact, I hope never to have an Intel processor ever.

Why is that? I find intel to be a reliable CPU. I would like to know your reasoning.

martyfelker · Mar 24, 2024

CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800x3d $379
RAM: Corsair Vengeance 2x32GB kit $259.99
Motherboard: Gigabyte b650 Gaming X AX $199.95
SSD: Crucial p3 plus $69.99
Cooler: Noctua nh-d15 $119.95
GPU: Gigabyte 4060 windforce max OC $338.08
Windows 11 Pro: $199

Lance1 · Mar 24, 2024

martyfelker said:
CPU: AMD Ryzen 7 7800x3d $379
RAM: Corsair Vengeance 2x32GB kit $259.99
Motherboard: Gigabyte b650 Gaming X AX $199.95
SSD: Crucial p3 plus $69.99
Cooler: Noctua nh-d15 $119.95
GPU: Gigabyte 4060 windforce max OC $338.08
Windows 11 Pro: $199

Those are fine specs but you didn't answer why you wont use Intel.

martyfelker · Mar 24, 2024

Lance1 said:
Those are fine specs but you didn't answer why you wont use Intel.

The reasons are historical and political. I was turned off to Intel after they screwed up their floating point processor software way back on the 386 and never really admitted it. Also, their monopoly with Microsoft (usually referred to as Wintel) remains until today. But I will admit the whole Intel/AMD thing just comes down to preference.

Scannerman · Mar 24, 2024

What saddens me is that AMD is pretty much going the way of Intel when it comes to passing down savings to the customer. This is hardly like it was in the 'good ole daze'. I've mentioned this on other threads before but the #1 reason I would not be inclined to purchase an Intel CPU is not the expense of the chip so much as the architecture that Intel seems to refuse to modify enough to guard the user from Spectre/Meltdown. Clearly it isn't as though they don't have enough staff, lack the technology, or simply lack the financial means. So what is their reason.

I have my own ideas as to why this is the case, but I would prefer to keep my tin foil hat close by where I can keep an eye on it. Logic dictates that the reason cannot be due to any of the postulations not suggested in the first paragraph of this missive. Frankly, I believe intel is in fact Intel and I'll leave it at that. I'll leave it to the reader to connect the dots. Think on this the next time you use an i phone or an i pad, or an i pod — I really don't care. What I do care about is watching 2 TB of data meltdown before my very eyes. (I took a video of it and shared it with Intel.)

To be fair, Intel does seem to have the "issue" dealt with on a superficial level, but I'm still not seeing much in the way of mitigation at the hardware level appearing anywhere in the forums or, for that matter, the media. This is the main reason that my last personal purchase was an AMD octocore rather than another hefty Intel purchase. This is not to say that AMD is without their own security issues; howbeit AMD gets right on top of these and are clearly more dedicated to modifying the physical architecture of their CPUs in order to circumvent the possibility of repeating the problem. Sadly, AMD has other problems.

We don't hear much crazy raving going on about Threadripper (like we once did) and there's good reason for that. Nonetheless it isn't my intention to leave the reader with a 28 page tome on Intel vs AMD, or vice-versa. I find it half a dozen one way and six the other. It behooves me to say that after over two decades of being a PC enthusiast, building computers for others for all sorts of niches and environments, while fiddling about on my own with various builds, many of my own and many proprietary PCs, over all Intel is still the better performer. Less lag, smoother performance, less trouble with Windows, and better online support. I will also venture that if you can verify that you have a defective Intel CPU and are willing to work with Intel they will indeed stand behind their product or replace it with something better.

If I were to purchase a brand new CPU today I would definitely run with Intel despite knowing their Spectre/Meltdown issue hasn't been completely dealt with. Having owned both sorts of platforms and having used them both extensively I still feel obligated to say that AMD still has a long way to go before they can reasonably justify the prices they charge for their chips. Not even Intel convinces me the prices they charge are worth paying for, except perhaps the fact that Intel does stand behind their product. I'm just amazed that it didn't take AMD very long to get just as insolent as Intel once they started giving Intel a serious run in competition. So once again, user preference rules.

Lance1 · Mar 24, 2024

martyfelker said:
The reasons are historical and political. I was turned off to Intel after they screwed up their floating point processor software way back on the 386 and never really admitted it. Also, their monopoly with Microsoft (usually referred to as Wintel) remains until today. But I will admit the whole Intel/AMD thing just comes down to preference.

386! Well that's holding a grudge. But I do agree with preference. Intel has its down points and so AMD as well. I like the Wintel...

Scannerman · Mar 24, 2024

martyfelker said:
The reasons are historical and political. I was turned off to Intel after they screwed up their floating point processor software way back on the 386 and never really admitted it. Also, their monopoly with Microsoft (usually referred to as Wintel) remains until today. But I will admit the whole Intel/AMD thing just comes down to preference.

Amazing. We both concluded the same. You put it so much more succinctly.

Lance1 · Mar 25, 2024

Scannerman... Your post 329 will take some time to digest and my 4 AM wake alarm is quickly coming so it's time for bed. I'll get back to that after work tomorrow. Looking forward to my 4060 YA!! Sorry... I thought I would toss that in...

cereberus · Mar 25, 2024

If you use Hyper-V, Intel allows nested VMs, AMD does not. I find this to be handy sometimes.

Also, I had more issues with AMD bugs in the past so gave up. I cannot say if that is true now, but my perception from Insider versions is every so often AMD versions are excluded from an update.

Never, ever seen that for Intel which is rock solid.

A future reason to keep with Intel (for me) is that (some) newer pcs with 13th gen Intel will be ASHA compatible for hearing aids. Ok only in Canary and limited range of devices yet, but this is a significant development for deaf people.

No idea if AMD devices will ever have this capability.

z3r010 · Mar 25, 2024

cereberus said:
If you use Hyper-V, Intel allows nested VMs, AMD does not. I find this to be handy sometimes.

I'm pretty sure I've nested VMs on my AMD system. I just Googled to check, but it's muddy, and I don't have time to check fully.

Edit - Yep, I just nested a HyperV VM.

pparks1 · Mar 25, 2024

cereberus said:
If you use Hyper-V, Intel allows nested VMs, AMD does not. I find this to be handy sometimes.

I'm in the same boat. My current build is a Ryzen 9 5900x and this was a bummer.

But, when I built the machine, AMD supported PCIe Gen 4 for my storage and Intel did not. I knew I would use that faster storage every second that computer was turned on, but would not use nested VM's continuously so I accepted that limitation.

I have no loyalty to either AMD or Intel. I have used both over the years and will always consider both with a new build. We have 4 current desktop builds in the house, from oldest to newest

Daughter on my sons old Core i5-6500
Son on AMD Ryzen 7 3800x
Me on Ryzen 9 5900x
Wife on Ryzen 5 5600x

My AMD's have given me no grief.

Scannerman · Mar 25, 2024

1. Daughter #1 somewhere out in B.C. on an ASUS laptop.
2. Daughter #2 on DELL STUDIO XPS 9000/435T X58 running i7 960 Bloomfield.
3. Daughter #3 on GIGABYTE GA-X58A-UD3R X58 running i7 920 Bloomfield.
4. Daughter #4 on ASUS ROG STRIX running i7 Haswell 4790K.
5. Wife on ASUS SABERTOOTH Z87 runnning i7 Haswell 4770K.
6. Me on AMD Ryzen 7 3800X on HERO X570 just for fun and Intel 6900K on X99-E WS for more serious things.

Given the price of the 3800X and that it overclocked so easily I must admit I was impressed. Admittedly, the 6900K cost three times as much as the 3800X, clocks better, is much more stable, and generally gives me no problems with updates. Both are 8 core CPUs. I've never run Windows 10 on my Intel work station and I have no intentions of doing so. It's my 7/11. The HERO hates Win 11. I will literally have to dismantle the entire thing and rebuild it just to get it to take Win 11 Pro. Windows won't stop snooping on what's already on this build so it keeps attributing my Win 10 key to my Win 11 build and this is where the insanity begins. This means that I will have to dig in and remove the heat sinks, my drives, and my NVMe, likely destroying my RAID arrays in the process. It is as though I'm being punished for insisting on running with a local account. If I have to do this I may as well rebuild the entire thing while I'm at it so I'm in no rush.

Lance1 · Mar 25, 2024

On a side point I wanted to see the comparison between my Intel 12th Gen Intel Core i5-12600KF compared other CPU's and I'm pleasantly delighted. Download Cinebench R23 and see where your CPU falls in. Yes! This is a challenge. If everyone jumps in on this it could be amazing.

pparks1 · Mar 25, 2024

z3r010 said:
I'm pretty sure I've nested VMs on my AMD system. I just Googled to check, but it's muddy, and I don't have time to check fully.

Edit - Yep, I just nested a HyperV VM.

It was introduced with Server 2022 and Windows 11 for AMD CPU's. I wasn't aware of that.

Hyper-V Nested virtualization for AMD processors

Windows Server 2022 just became generally available last week with a ton of great improvements in security, hybrid cloud management, and application platform. Another new feature supported with Windows Server 2022 is Hyper-V Nested virtualization for AMD processors. Nested Virtualization isn't...

www.thomasmaurer.ch

Scannerman · Mar 26, 2024

Lance1 said:
On a side point I wanted to see the comparison between my Intel 12th Gen Intel Core i5-12600KF compared other CPU's and I'm pleasantly delighted. Download Cinebench R23 and see where your CPU falls in. Yes! This is a challenge. If everyone jumps in on this it could be amazing.

Pointless to challenge a 10 core CPU unless I also have a 10 core CPU or better. I'm not in your league. Still, it's interesting to see how that score beats a 16 core Threadripper @ a considerably lower clock speed. I would be pleased with this choice too. In a couple of years you should O.C. it and see what it can do! :winkt:

pparks1 · Mar 26, 2024

I went back and found my cinebench score from my 12 core AMD that I built 3 years ago.

Planning A New Build in late January.

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