Seniors and Windows11

ThrashZone · Sep 17, 2021

barman58 said:
Been there, done that, bought the T-Shirt - T-Shirt didn't fit, was too small, Sent it back

Hi,
Through this last year messing with linux
Not once has it popped up before login to get more out of linux

Also use defender/ onedrive/ edge/ cortana nags are gone to so all in all it's worth a little research to do some things that were easy in windows.
But wait I still use windows just not 10 and maybe not 11 either too early to say

ThrashZone · Sep 17, 2021

Berton said:
One thing nice with Linux is the many 'flavors' to choose from for testing without having to spend money each time there's something new, gives us a chance to settle upon what we like and meets our needs. My next favorite is Kubuntu.

Hi,
Yeah I was thinking that was a bad thing
Most of these distros seem like just different desktop theme lol

I did like solus plasma but it has very little support and some needed stuff couldn't be installed not compatible so bye bye
Think plasma theme or what ever can be installed in mint though.

jackmcgann · Sep 17, 2021

I'm looking for a primo copy of Microsoft BoB.

Berton · Sep 17, 2021

jackmcgann said:
I'm looking for a primo copy of Microsoft BoB.

Haven't heard of that in a number of years, probably like OS2. Might check on eBay.

bobkn · Sep 17, 2021

jackmcgann said:
I'm looking for a primo copy of Microsoft BoB.

Here ya go. https://cdn.techjourney.net/2008/06/MSBOB10A.zip

Not a boxed, collectable version. :wink:

A Guy · Sep 18, 2021

Berton said:
One thing nice with Linux is the many 'flavors' to choose from for testing without having to spend money each time there's something new, gives us a chance to settle upon what we like and meets our needs. My next favorite is Kubuntu.

Someone Made Ubuntu Look Just Like Windows 11

LinuxFx looks a lot like the real thing.

www.tomshardware.com

A Guy

jimbo45 · Sep 18, 2021

A Guy said:
Someone Made Ubuntu Look Just Like Windows 11

LinuxFx looks a lot like the real thing.

www.tomshardware.com

A Guy

Hi there
Almost anybody with Windows experience could run any linux distro with the KDE (GUI) desktop -- anyway - enough of that -- for getting Windows 11 VM to run on "dubious hardware" using a VM in Linux makes perfect sense !! and for those who have decent hardware -- there's nothing wrong in creating under HYPER-V on Windows a Linux VM -- enabling Nesting VM's and then installing a W11 VM if using HYPER-V to create a W11 VM as a second level VM if a W11 VM directly under HYPER-V can't be installed because of "Hardware restrictions". !!!!

To any HOME edition users -- does creating say a W10 PRO edition with VMWare or VBOX and installing / enabling HYPER-V work on it ?? If that's so then you can presumably create a VM under that for W11.

Nested VM's aren't so horrible these days if you have decent fast disks, RAM to spare and decent CPU's.

Anyway I'd like to ask anybody if they've tried this on a WINDOWS HOME edition. Don't worry about Windows activation for these tests --just POC's (Proof of concept) -- I'd suggest using VMWare is probably the better bet for experimenting with this - but Vbox might also have some decently configurable VM files.

Get relevant iso's from UUPDUMP for testing different editions --and backup / image HOST system before messing around !!!.

This stuff beats being dragged out to a Supermarket on a Sat afternoon by "She who must be Obeyed" !!!!

Cheers
jimbo

johnpd · Sep 18, 2021

I thought I would jump in here. I have been working with computers for just short of 50 years. The first one I worked on was a Univac 1004. It could read and punch cards and print reports. It had 1k of memory and I had to program it using a plug board. We have come a long way since then. I also help out in our local computer club solving problems for our fellow seniors. Windows 11 requirements will throw four of my PCs under the bus including a nearly two year old workstation since I declined having the TPM chip installed in it. I did not see a need for it. I think there are a lot of seniors that have non-compliant systems and will need to get a new computer. If they can wait four years, that should suffice considering the price of electronics now are off the wall. I just purchased a new Lenovo Thinkpad which will tide me over until 2025 (if I am still around then). Congrats to all the seniors here who are keeping their minds active with computers and helping others. Microsoft will certainly continue to keep us busy.

JohnD

barman58 · Sep 18, 2021

Unless you are very unlucky. any two year old PC (including Laptop) should come with a PTT,(Intel), or fTPM (AMD), on board Trusted Platform Module, you just need to check the bios to switch it on. It would likely also come with the header on the Motherboard for fitting a discrete chip, (which is probably what you were offered)

In addition, even if your system does fail the requirements in any other way, you can still install the RTM release manually

Zardoc · Sep 18, 2021

johnpd said:
I thought I would jump in here. I have been working with computers for just short of 50 years. The first one I worked on was a Univac 1004. It could read and punch cards and print reports. It had 1k of memory and I had to program it using a plug board. We have come a long way since then. I also help out in our local computer club solving problems for our fellow seniors. Windows 11 requirements will throw four of my PCs under the bus including a nearly two year old workstation since I declined having the TPM chip installed in it. I did not see a need for it. I think there are a lot of seniors that have non-compliant systems and will need to get a new computer. If they can wait four years, that should suffice considering the price of electronics now are off the wall. I just purchased a new Lenovo Thinkpad which will tide me over until 2025 (if I am still around then). Congrats to all the seniors here who are keeping their minds active with computers and helping others. Microsoft will certainly continue to keep us busy.

JohnD

Hi Johnpd,

Welcome to 11 forum.

Wow, 50 years in computers! I have a friend who also did similar work as you at GE. Most seniors (upper 70s and up) I know, just want the machine to get mail surf the net use Word to write letters and use ZOOM to see each other!

. Some like to learn new stuff but most don't really care as long as they know how to use what is of interest to them.

I have elderly friends in other countries that are very knowledgeable with WhatsApp. It's their main way of communication. They can make long distance calls for free, send videos or images without loosing quality.

Anyways, when my elderly friends will need to change their machines, the simple questions will be <How do I send mails, surf, write letters and oh yes, use ZOOM >.

LeLibran · Sep 18, 2021

jimbo45 said:
To any HOME edition users -- does creating say a W10 PRO edition with VMWare or VBOX and installing / enabling HYPER-V work on it ?? If that's so then you can presumably create a VM under that for W11.

Cheers
jimbo

Jimbo,

I don't have a Windows Home Host setup, but both VirtualBox and probably VMWare (Type 2 Hypervisors) are currently directly compatible with both Windows 10 and 11 Hosts without any 'hacks', providing you don't consider completely disabling any Hyper-V installation and not using any features in Windows 10/11 that make use of the Hyper-V "Engine" such as WSL2 or some security features at the same time as running a third-party virtualisation application as a 'hack'. IME (and from frequently reported experiences) any form of Hyper-V 'activation' severely impairs the performance of any Type 2 Hypervisor which needs direct access to VT-x in Intel (or its AMD equivalent) because Hyper-V blocks access to that feature and seemingly won't share its control with other products. So far, it also seems that every time any progress is made by Oracle or VMWare in attempting to improve the compatibility/performance of their products with Hyper-V, Microsoft appears to have made some Hyper-V change/enhancement which has successfully counteracted that improvement. Not saying that the Hyper-V developers are deliberately blocking third-party Hypervisor use, but they certainly don't seem to be actively helping/considering the impact of their actions on other software. So the Windows user options currently are to either to use the Hyper-V option or one of the third party alternatives, but not both at the same time; or, alternatively, learn how to enable/disable Hyper-V on Windows Hosts at Boot, as required.

Here's the brief introduction to nested-virtualisation from the VirtualBox User Guide (Version 6.1.26, Page 298):

"9.33 Nested Virtualization

Oracle VM VirtualBox supports nested virtualization. This feature enables the passthrough of hardware virtualization functions to the guest VM. That means that you can install a hypervisor, such as Oracle VM VirtualBox, Oracle VM Server or KVM, on an Oracle VM VirtualBox guest. You can then create and run VMs within the guest VM.

Hardware virtualization features not present on the host CPU will not be exposed to the guest. In addition, some features such as nested paging are not yet supported for passthrough to the guest.

You can enable the nested virtualization feature in one of the following ways:

- From the VirtualBox Manager, select the Enable Nested VT-x/AMD-V check box on the Processor tab. To disable the feature, deselect the check box.

- Use the --nested-hw-virt option of the VBoxManage modifyvm command to enable or disable nested virtualization. See chapter 8.8, VBoxManage modifyvm, page 148."

My understanding:

As Nested Virtualisation in Oracle VirtualBox relies on the passthrough of accessible hardware virtualisation features, and as VirtualBox is a cross-platform application which has to work similarly in all supported x86-based Host Platforms (Windows, MacOS, Linux, Oracle Solaris), Hyper-V can't be successfully installed/enabled in a Windows VM, i.e. Hyper-V is not available for passthrough in the Host, even if that Host is Windows.

I'm not a VMware User, but understand its standard desktop products behave similarly and, although VMWare and Oracle products can co-exist on the same Host they cannot be used at the simultaneously. Nor can they be used together in a nested virtualisation arrangement. And, as far as I know, neither VirtualBox nor the VMWare Windows virtualisation products can run on a Hyper-V VM (no access to VT-x/AMD-v)

Wondering if you've had any success in installing/activating a functioning Hyper-V setup in a KVM/Qemu Windows VM on a linux distribution?

johnpd · Sep 18, 2021

barman58 said:
Unless you are very unlucky. any two year old PC (including Laptop) should come with a PTT,(Intel), or fTPM (AMD), on board Trusted Platform Module, you just need to check the bios to switch it on. It would likely also come with the header on the Motherboard for fitting a discrete chip, (which is probably what you were offered)

In addition, even if your system does fail the requirements in any other way, you can still install the RTM release manually

I checked my BIOS and no such animal exists there. Here is a display of what I should have:

However the TPM Embedded Security line is missing and I see no way of enabling it. When I called HP, they said the TPM chip would have to be soldered onto the motherboard. Had I known Microsoft would require this in the future I would have had it installed. So this PC will have to stay as Windows 10.

JohnD

johnpd · Sep 18, 2021

Zardoc said:
Hi Johnpd,

Welcome to 11 forum.

Wow, 50 years in computers! I have a friend who also did similar work as you at GE. Most seniors (upper 70s and up) I know, just want the machine to get mail surf the net use Word to write letters and use ZOOM to see each other! . Some like to learn new stuff but most don't really care as long as they know how to use what is of interest to them.

I have elderly friends in other countries that are very knowledgeable with WhatsApp. It's their main way of communication. They can make long distance calls for free, send videos or images without loosing quality.

Anyways, when my elderly friends will need to change their machines, the simple questions will be <How do I send mails, surf, write letters and oh yes, use ZOOM >.

Actually, as can happen these days, my arithmetic was faulty. I have been at this for just short of 60 years.

JohnD

zbook · Sep 18, 2021

Please post the results for this script:

Windows 11 Compatibility Check

Windows 11 Compatibility Check This resource is now available on GitHub! Win11CompChk uses CMD, PowerShell, WMIC and more Built-in Windows tools to provide accurate results if your PC can run Windows 11. No installation or setup required! (In...

www.elevenforum.com

johnpd · Sep 18, 2021

zbook said:
Please post the results for this script:

Windows 11 Compatibility Check

Windows 11 Compatibility Check This resource is now available on GitHub! Win11CompChk uses CMD, PowerShell, WMIC and more Built-in Windows tools to provide accurate results if your PC can run Windows 11. No installation or setup required! (In...

www.elevenforum.com

Here are the results:

Quandary · Sep 18, 2021

johnpd said:
Actually, as can happen these days, my arithmetic was faulty. I have been at this for just short of 60 years.

I am up there with you John, but only experience with IBM mainframes, then PC's starting with PC1, OS/2 along the way and Windows. Only a slight encounter with Linux. No MAC devices although I have an iPhone and iPod. Also an customized android streamer.
So much technology and so little time :)

Winuser · Sep 18, 2021

bobkn said:
I wonder whether I'll be able to do better in 25 years?

My first thought was I won't even be here in 25 years so I'm about at the tech limit in my life . Then I did the math. I'll be just under 91 so it is possible I'll still be here.

Winuser · Sep 18, 2021

Tweakfiend said:
Similar age to Bree and keeping the mind stimulated is the name of the game .
Old work habits die hard .

Makes you feel and look good , if you are the only person in the house still able to sort network issues , deleted emails , zoom problems all caused in the name of progress by Windows 11 updates !

I'll be 66 years old next month. I keep my mind and my body highly active. My last stress test I surprised the heart doctor with how well I did. The day I can't do for myself is the day I'm ready to go.

Winuser · Sep 18, 2021

Berton said:
One thing nice with Linux is the many 'flavors' to choose from for testing without having to spend money each time there's something new, gives us a chance to settle upon what we like and meets our needs. My next favorite is Kubuntu.

There was a time that I used Mandrake Linux as my only OS. I had completely abandoned Windows. The only problem I had was printer drivers. I forget what printer I had when I switched from Windows to Mandrake but I do know I couldn't find drivers for it. I had to replace it with a Lexmark printer. If I hadn't become a Windows 7 tester I might still be on Linux. I can truthfully say that Windows 7 brought me back to being a Windows user. When Windows 8 came out I was thinking about going back to Linux. I was very happy when MS started listening to all the complaints and released Windows 8.1. I was also very impressed with the Windows phone. IMHO MS made two mistakes with the Windows phone. They came into the game late and left to soon. To this day I still think that my Windows phone was the best.

Looey · Sep 18, 2021

Windows to me is just a way to run applications. I think it is easier to learn than Photoshop and all of its parts like Bridge, Lightroom and Creative Cloud. I also use a computer for taxes and generating movies. If you can learn Photoshop you can learn almost anything. If I lost interest in photography and movie making I'd hire a rax company and give my computers away. If you don't know what a 5081 is then you're a newbir lol.