Solved Dell laptop. Is there any reason NOT to have automatic BIOS updates?

For all the hoohah about bios updates, when was the last time anybody had one brick their device?

I have had the odd one that refused to complete installation but never actually brick a device.

In a way, I almost hope for device to be bricked so I can justify splashing some cash for a new laptop LOL.

ThrashZone said:

Hi,
There's a old saying
You do not fix what is not broken hehe

Personally I add a bios password to stop such an update from happening.

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Or it may be broken but you don't realise, and an update will then fix it. Generally, bios updates fix security vulnerabilities and correct bugs as well as updating other firmware such as onboard graphics, management engine updates and others. By not updating you could potentially leave your PC vulnerable to security issues or mean it's not running as efficiently as it could be.

markw51 said:

Or it may be broken but you don't realise, and an update will then fix it. Generally, bios updates fix security vulnerabilities and correct bugs as well as updating other firmware such as onboard graphics, management engine updates and others. By not updating you could potentially leave your PC vulnerable to security issues or mean it's not running as efficiently as it could be.

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Hi,
Yeah that's kind of a weird argument lol

Either way waiting a few months wouldn't matter either see if anyone comes up with any bugs.....

I've seen bios updates get pulled a week after release or another update the next month to fix something messed up in the first.

So bios updates are a double edged sword and if there is no bios flash back method then safer than sorry is best policy rather than being stuck waiting for a fix.
Waiting for fixes is one thing but if nothing is broken you're really just looking for bugs hehe

Latest bios for my z490 apex locked PTT enabled which I wouldn't call that a good thing seeing I have no need for bitlocker lol

Next bios update for 24h2 might be switching and locking virtualization feature enabled so MS can activate VM security features, a setting I disable on purpose.

bios updates are not available for Dell Latitude e6420 running Windows 10 or higher i.e. Windows 11.
Dell support site instructs to install Windows XP, Vista,7,8, or 8.1 (32-bit/64-bit) or Ubuntu/Linux, then BIOS updates can be installed otherwise Not.

gaffar said:

updates are not available for Dell Latitude e6420

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Correct. As their support site says, they do not support Windows 10 on that [2011?] computer.

gaffar said:

bios updates are not available for Dell Latitude e6420

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Correct. The last Bios update, A25, was issued on or before 27 Mar 2018.


My own [December 2016] Dell Inspiron 7779 laptop came with Windows 10 Version 1607 but was only fully supported through to Version 1809. Bios updates continued until January 2022.


All the best,
Denis

Does anyone understand the Dell PC/Laptop naming and numbering scheme? Is it random or according to some rules?

Some security updates or so called optimizations - are basically enforced limitations at a BIOS level - meant to solve issues related to a faulty design. For example: a laptop overheating due to having mediocre cooling - despite being heavily overpriced (Dell XPS/Alienware) - gets a BIOS update which limits the CPU's potential - by throttling the frequency and power - while reaching a specific temperature. And thus, you have a system that might work at max 70% its potential (as described even in the product specifications). Which to be far, should be expected - for thin laptops with powerful CPU/GPUs.

But then - there's updates which disable useful functions - which can actually help with heating issues - by Undervolting the CPU (which is also - a safe practice, not like Overclocking where one would raise the voltage). As was the case with Plundervolt - where Dell actually issues BIOS updates disabling the option to tamper with voltages. Which, end-up piddling up a lot of people - who used undervolting as a workaround for the faulty design mentioned above (since lower voltage implied less heat - aka - less chances for throttling while offering a better performance). This people actually preferred the risk of using a BIOS which was vulnerable to Plundervolt - even end-up cracking the BIOS to get that function back.

That being said - for specific scenarios like above - one might prefer BIOS updated to come as a choice. On the other hand, for the majority - automated BIOS Updates are actually the best choice. I'm even surprised - it's not an industry standard by now - as it's the case with the mobile phones industry. Believe or not - it's actually less likely for an automated firmware update - to cause issues (after all, they display same warnings that come with every firmware update: "Don't turn off the device - while firmware update in progress or it could brake/brick the device" / they're also triggered only when meting safety requirements). Compared to a manual update - where there's simply more room for things to go wrong (if that didn't happen to you - that's either luck related or didn't have to work with enough devices - which increase the chances of... bad luck).

There's a lot of things to dislike about Dell - maybe even BIOS updates can be among those for specific people, but generally speaking - update releases is among the things where Dell shines compared to other OEM brands - which seem to work with the bare minimum of devs covering updates for their devices.

PS.I still don't/would recommend Dell - cause generally speaking (updates being an exception) - it's a shady brand with all kinds of immoral practices/services - be it cutting corners to save a buck on overpriced products or dealing with simply issue in the most immoral way - like offering to replace the whole motherboard on laptop (and those have the CPU and GPU integrated) - that needs a cheap component replaced (as it's the case with a shorted MOSFET - which can cost around 100$ with the service fee - while the whole motherboard getting replaced can cost over 500$). Dell is one of those brand - that tries to be more like the most crocked brand in the whole IT world (Apple) - their shady practices - it's the main thing they have in common to a large extent.

neves said:

it's a shady brand with all kinds of immoral practices/services - be it cutting corners to save a buck on overpriced products ... etc

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I think what you are describing is 'normal business practice'. Reprehensible, perhaps, but (a) enables the business to keep going and (b) keeps the shareholders happy. It's rather like the rampant 'shrinkflation' going on in the UK at the moment. Personally, I would prefer my bar of chocolate to stay the same size, and the price to go up, because that's transparent and honest. Similarly I would prefer that the latest Dell Inspiron 2 in 1 would have the same kinds of features that my existing model has, but with a better processer and more memory, but they seem to have reduced the number of sockets and changed the case material from aluminium to plastic. But look, guys, the price is the same!

It certainly isn't only Dell.

cereberus said:

For all the hoohah about bios updates, when was the last time anybody had one brick their device?

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I had a Dell BIOS update brick my Dell XPS 8930 SE about a year ago. It would not post when the BIOS update, installed via Dell Update, went south. Thankfully, the Dell Forum guru, @RoHe, was kind enough to provide me with a BIOS recovery file and instructed me on how to activate it. I was unaware of the "Ctrl-Esc" trick and the entire BIOS recovery procedure. See my post in this topic: Dell laptop. Is there any reason NOT to have automatic BIOS updates?

While you might want an excuse to purchase a new laptop, I did not want to purchase a new desktop computer to replace my expensive 2019 8930 SE, which is configured for HD video editing. I don't have a lot of "spare" cash hanging around.

There are sporadic reports in the Dell Forums of others being similarly hit, particularly when using Dell SupportAssist, but Dell Update has borked computers too. As for other brands, I have no idea what, if any, issues arise from updating their BIOS firmware.

Respectfully submitted. Have a great day.

Regards,
Phil

garioch7 said:

There are sporadic reports in the Dell Forums of others being similarly hit, particularly when using Dell SupportAssist

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Yet another reason not to use SupportAssist. I found that it caused sporadic keyboard lockups. Removing it restored normal keyboard function. Reinstalling it caused the keyboard lockups to return. When first using my Dell laptop, it seemed like an excellent (and simple) way to update drivers and check for problems, but I discovered after a time that it caused more problems than it solved.

John

The only reason I used Support Assist during the warranty of my Dells, is because of the warranty. I’f I only downloaded updates via support assist, and something went wrong, support at Dell would of had no argument that I had done something during an update process that they didn’t instigate. As soon as my warranty expired, pretty much so did Support Assists usefulness. Having said that, after the fact, it provided a window into what was available to update via the app, of which I could then download from Dell directly if I so chose to.

Senecio said:

I think what you are describing is 'normal business practice'.

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That's the part that i find worse - people getting so used to getting scammed - that they deem being cheated and taking for complete fools - as the norm.... As an old say saying goes: "fool me once, shame on you; fool me twice, shame on me." Yet... if getting fooled became the norm - to such extent - that the ones in question became complaisant... the machiavellians handling business for said companies/corporations - concluded that their clients deserve to get ripped off. And every company/corporation - guilty of same shady practices - thinks the same thing about their clients (they deserve to get ripped of for being that complaisant). Which in turn... affects everyone else. This complaisant people - are the main reason why this days - we have GPUs worth over 2000$ - while back 2017 an extremely potent beast like 1080 Ti (the equivalent of RTX 4090 for that time - if not better) - was worth 700$. And hey let's be 100% fair/transparent and take even inflation into account: 700$ from 2017 are worth 889.37$ in 2024. That's what happens when devils posing as humans (i mean this actions wise - not religiously) and their whiling complaisant victims - decide what's norm for everyone else with their actions.
So... no, that's not norm for me. Won't join them even if i can't beat them. We all have our battles - i guess...

I find unsubstantiated, table-thumping posts extremely boring.


Unsubscribed,
Denis

@antspants ,

antspants said:

I’f I only downloaded updates via support assist, and something went wrong, support at Dell would of had no argument that I had done something during an update process that they didn’t instigate.

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You would be mistaken, I am afraid. Unless a Dell Support Tech told you to install something, Dell backs away from the warranty. Lots of reports of that in the Dell Forums, which are a mess these days because of an autumn 2023 "update" that borked most of it. The use or not of SupportAssist is a user decision, so Dell claims.

antspants said:

it provided a window into what was available to update via the app, of which I could then download from Dell directly if I so chose to

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Again, SupportAssist is inaccurate, misses updates, and is usually weeks or months behind what is offered on the Dell Support website if you enter your Service Tag, and that is only if you can keep it working! Keeping it updated and working is a challenge because the software is so buggy.

You are best off without SupportAssist. Its recovery feature eats GBs of space on many computers. Yes, you should not uninstall it if your computer is under warranty, but you should not use it and turn off the recovery component to save space. That will not void your warranty. As soon as my warranties expired on my desktop and laptop, Revo made SupportAssist and Dell Update disappear in a flash on my computers!

Just my two cents. YMMV. Have a great day.

Regards,
Phil

garioch7 said:

@antspants ,



You would be mistaken, I am afraid. Unless a Dell Support Tech told you to install something, Dell backs away from the warranty. Lots of reports of that in the Dell Forums, which are a mess these days because of an autumn 2023 "update" that borked most of it. The use or not of SupportAssist is a user decision, so Dell claims.



Again, SupportAssist is inaccurate, misses updates, and is usually weeks or months behind what is offered on the Dell Support website if you enter your Service Tag, and that is only if you can keep it working! Keeping it updated and working is a challenge because the software is so buggy.

You are best off without SupportAssist. Its recovery feature eats GBs of space on many computers. Yes, you should not uninstall it if your computer is under warranty, but you should not use it and turn off the recovery component to save space. That will not void your warranty. As soon as my warranties expired on my desktop and laptop, Revo made SupportAssist and Dell Update disappear in a flash on my computers!

Just my two cents. YMMV. Have a great day.

Regards,
Phil

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Never had a problem with support. So I can’t subscribe to any of that because I haven’t experienced it.

neves said:

So... no, that's not norm for me. Won't join them even if i can't beat them. We all have our battles - i guess...

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So you won’t ever buy anything again?

neves said:

...

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Maybe read this, it’s a pretty good article. It’s not all corporate greed. There are always contributing factors.

I would never use any software/app to update BIOS through Windows. Only ever flash using the BIOS tools

A question:

Years ago, the Dell BIOS update utility was launched from Windows. However, it rebooted the PC, and did the actual update outside of Windows.

Is that still the case?

If so, the "update BIOS through Windows" bit isn't very accurate.

For the past 25 years I've purchased Dell XPS premium laptops approximately every 3 years. I've had 7 or 8 of them and I've always been happy. I always buy with an extended 3-year premium warranty that includes drops and spills and onsite repair technicians. I've never been disappointed. Dell Support has always been excellent.

I use Dell Support Assist and Dell Command | Update. I've never had a problem with either utility.