Solved Dell laptop. Is there any reason NOT to have automatic BIOS updates?

bobkn said:

Years ago, the Dell BIOS update utility was launched from Windows. However, it rebooted the PC, and did the actual update outside of Windows.

Is that still the case?

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That’s how it works on business machines at least. The Windows utility just stages the update, and the actual update occurs when you reboot, before Windows loads.

antspants said:

So you won’t ever buy anything again?

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Not on their terms.

Still fond of a bit of gaming - when/if one title peaks my interest (like Baldur's Gate 3 - more recently), and some of those can be quite demanding. That behind said, GPU wise - if Nvidia didn't turn immorally greedy - might have been among those who supports their progress - by buying a RTX 4070/4080 (as i did for GTX 1070 back then) - but at current scamming prices, that's just wrong (both feeling like a foul to buy their cards - but also feeling the guilt of taking part in their customers screwing game). And it's not about money - but principles. That being said - i'd rather stick with a RTX 2060 (and even that - bought 2nd hand) - than paying full price for any Nvidia product (same goes for recommending their cards).

As for AMD - sure their prices are better, but they too seem like the type - who would do the same thing if places were reversed. So yes, best bang for the buck - is currently on AMD side and I tend to recommend AMD cards over Nvidia - but that on a neutral ground - cause they didn't prove themselves as trustworthy either - more like opportunists (they use/d Nvidia's greed in their favor - striving to offer better prices where they can beat them or are close behind - but it's not like there's a huge price gap - quite competitive). I mean, if they had a card as powerful as RTX 4090 - maybe wouldn't go over 2000$ but... 1959.99$. Then again, best bang for the buck - is usually determined by OEMs (same GPU very similar specifications, yet - 1 OEM/XFX might have a model priced at 390$ while another/MSI wants 1150$ for slightly higher clocks: XFX 2105 MHz vs MSI 2285 MHz / even while using components of a higher quality - the price is clearly inflated).

But hey, one could always write a book about Dell and the PTSD triggering stories - some of its customers had to endure. If we're to take into account - the large number of testimonials - that book might rival or even beat War and Peace - quantity wise.

antspants said:

Maybe read this, it’s a pretty good article. It’s not all corporate greed. There are always contributing factors.

Don't Waste Money on a New PC in 2024… But If You Have to, This is When to Buy

A new PC is not a great investment in 2024... unless you know when and what to buy.

www.cyberghostvpn.com

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There's nothing new written there (that's like someone trying to sell vegetables to a farmer with decades of experience of growing vegetables) - at least not for people who work in this field. But also someone lived on this planet - if we're to approach COVID (which Nvidia used as inspiration - since back then there was a GPU production and shipment crisis - yet they tested the waters with some of the highest prices in GPU history - after things went back to normal for quite some time).

TraderGary said:

For the past 25 years I've purchased Dell XPS premium laptops approximately every 3 years. I've had 7 or 8 of them and I've always been happy. I always buy with an extended 3-year premium warranty that includes drops and spills and onsite repair technicians. I've never been disappointed. Dell Support has always been excellent.

I use Dell Support Assist and Dell Command | Update. I've never had a problem with either utility.

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The neighbor living across from my grandma - died of old age at 90+ drank and smoke every day for as long as he can remember (loved to smoke and drink as much as he loved to share his tells from the younger days). True story. But hey, that was his personal experience. Wouldn't recommend anyone to have the same lifestyle - cause statistically speaking most trying - would probably wreak themselves at a younger age (if not far younger). That... is also how i feel about Dell.

@neves What alternative do you suggest besides manufacturing your own computer? I choose Windows over Apple because at least then when something goes wrong I don't have to solely depend on the corrupt manufacturer to fix it. I choose Dell just because in my research it won-out over all the other commercially available brands. And absolutely there was not any one computer shining far-and-above all the others as superb. I have other things I want to spend my life doing other than building a perfect computer and my own perfect OS, and realistically I think it likely that I'll be able to achieve those things using the—albeit flawed—tech available to me on the market.

The state of the industry reflects society's complacence. All a knowledgeable individual can do is sincerely assert that if enough others revolted then they would too; and until there are enough people in society of that agreement to make a 'revolt' effective then one can only endure and suffer the state of things really, and vote with one's wallet as far as is reasonable to do so.

bobkn said:

Years ago, the Dell BIOS update utility was launched from Windows. However, it rebooted the PC, and did the actual update outside of Windows.

Is that still the case?

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Yes

In all the Dell PC's we have had since Win 98, the BIOS updates have been optional and never auto downloaded/installed. We have 3 Dell PC's, 2 of which are under warranty, which usually requires SupportAssist to be installed before getting support. We use Dell Update/Command to look for available BIOS updates and when they are offered (usually every 2 months) we either install them using Dell Update or manually from the Drivers & Downloads page using the Service Tag. Usually about 2 weeks after the BIOS installation, a Firmware update is downloaded and installed by Windows Update - this installation doesn't need a restart so isn't technically a BIOS update (according to Dell). We have never had a Firmware Update offered by Dell Update/SupportAssist and Dell said that these updates are pushed through Windows Update. Dell's advice to us is to wait until the BIOS/Driver is offered by Dell Update\SA before installing and not rush to install from the web page as the update can be pulled soon after release if there are reported problems - at least Dell Update gives time for that check.

_william said:

@neves What alternative do you suggest besides manufacturing your own computer?

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Manufacturing is a whole 'nother story, but if you meant "custom build" - then yes - that is the best choice for a "desktop". And you don't have built it yourself (that's optional if you want to save some money or find some pleasure in putting together your own PC) - the current market is overstated with people who provide this service. The only research you'd have to do is - finding out which of the local services is better known for having competent employees. There's even freelancers - and those have a rating they're trying to live up to (aiming for 5 stars customer ratings) - for them to be successful in this field. Most of the times - you even end-up paying less for more. Same goes for customer support - since this is where Dell - became infamous for being usually incompetent, yet polite (they'll charge more politely, they'll politely suggest expensive replacements which take far less to get fixed in local services by component people, they'll give you the most politely excuses for all kinds of issues arising while dealing with an issue). If it's some basic/easy concern (such as the one in this topic) - which takes enough knowledge that even someone hired cause of nepotism (i suspect this to be the main cause of incompetency - among Dell's support) - you'd be fine - but when serious issues arise... a local service (where again - they're known for being good at their job) - is usually the only wise choice.

To be fair, ignorance is indeed bliss for those with large pockets - which obviously Dell can provide. I mean, sure you might pay Dell 300$ more (compared to a honest fox) - by replacing the motherboard on a laptop - even tho the fix could cost a fraction of that price - but the system should work just fine with the new motherboard (if installed correctly) - but everyone's happy at the end. Only people interested in a fair price - would be troubled by stuff like this (wasted money).

Anyway, since you can't buy a laptop - as custom build - here i would recommend to do the research and look for the best model in a given price (specifications and high ratings wise) - but "IGNORE THE BRAND". Buying a laptop based on loiality (or worst - fanaticism) - is the bigest i encountered in the IT world. A mistake which sterns from a line of producs where the company indeed - did a good job - only to cut corners with the next line (it's just bussines - more often than not big corporation look for ways to cut corners as a way to increase profit - and it's customers who pay for that - by paying more or "a lot more for less + the brand") .

neves said:

To be fair, ignorance is indeed bliss for those with large pockets

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You get what you pay for. You can’t custom build a Laptop from nothing, so if you want a laptop and you want a good one, you have to pay for it.

neves said:

IGNORE THE BRAND

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No, don’t ignore the brand. There are good brands and bad brands, it makes a difference. You buy crap and it might only last you 2 years, buy a decent brand with the specs you can afford and it might last you 10+ years. There are preople in here with laptops older than 10 years that are running windows 11.

neves said:

since this is where Dell - became infamous for being usually incompetent

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Dell isn’t incompetent. Good laptops, fair price, good after service. You obviously had a bad experience that you like to push onto others. I have read this from you before.

antspants said:

You get what you pay for. You can’t custom build a Laptop from nothing, so if you want a laptop and you want a good one, you have to pay for it.

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That's just it: "YOU DON'T GET WHAT YOU PAID FOR!" My point with that line is: there's people with large pockets for whom - seems to make very little difference if they spent 100$ to replace a shorted MOSFET in a local service - or go with Dell's advice and replace the whole motherboard (which on a laptop has the CPU + GPU soldered on the board) by spending 700$. Don't even bother question Dell's expertise or ask a second opinion - just pay for it and go on with their day.

Tho - i get it, most customers - don't understand the system's components (don't understand their specifications, their quality, their actual value or how they really work). Same way i know very little about a car's engine and other internal components. Thus, i would never go to a car dealer alone - cause he could take me for a foul and sell me some crap that looks good on the outside. Instead, i would go with an experience mechanic - to check a model i'm interested and listen to his advice (over the car dealer).

And back to "you don't get what you pay for". I dealt with some Alienware products before getting acquired by Dell - and yes, those too were overpriced - but at least back then you kinda got what you pay for - as in - all the components where High End (Flagships of that time), of highest quality - quite fitting for the name Alienware. Opening one up - i was in awe (less impressive now - but back then was quite impressive to say the least). Price wise a Dell Alienware is quite similar (if not more expensive) - but opening one up - the more i dabbled with its components the more i got filled with disgust (laughing ironically while feeling bad for anyone who wasted money on that overpriced crap). It's like buying an iPhone 15 Pro (old Alienware) but getting an iPhone 15 Pro Clone (Dell's version of Alienware) - same feeling. Dell... cut corners everywhere (far from the highest quality you'd find in the old Alienware - quite mediocre to say the least). For example, whoever payed 5000$ for the next Alieware model...


...got scammed.

antspants said:

Dell isn’t incompetent. Good laptops, fair price, good after service. You obviously had a bad experience that you like to push onto others. I have read this from you before.

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You misunderstood me, again. Last Dell product i own was a monitor - which i RMA-it the day i bought it (back in 2006). But that has less to do with Dell and more to do - with it being the first TN monitor i ever tried and was disappointed with its viewing angles - so spent more and bought an HP with VA panel instead (Dell's equivalent was $100 extra at that time). My actual experience with Dell products is purely service wise. I lost count how many customers i had - who came to me for as 2nd opinion - after dabbling with Dell services - which more often than not recommended replacing fixable components (which is ether incompetence or a shady way of doing business). Or worse - they replaced a fully functional component (like the GPU) - while the issue was the motherboard (more exactly - a swollen capacitor). Thus, the system would start and work while idle - but shutdown while running a demanding app (when needing more power). Which tells me - they replaced the GPU, booted it up and decided it's fine - without bothering to run any stress tests (the standard in every service). Just some example from the top of my had, since it's been over a decade of all kinds of experiences - enough to write a book about similar stuff. If anything, based on this past experiences - and for quite some time now - i don't recommend brands (buy a product under this brand or anther) - i recommend products. So if a Dell product seemed reasonable enough - while being the best bang for the buck - i'd add that as an option too. Experience wise - it's just my least favorite as a brand (a brand i prefer to avoid for general recommendations). Last but not least, Dell is a worldwide corporation with fairly large number of employees. So obviously, i can't talk for every Dell employee. Maybe the ones in your area are fairly competent. But some of the shady decision Dell made (Apple like) - while selling or offering customer support - are clearly tied to enforced rules within the company (the way the upper management trained their support line). Which makes it a Dell policy.

Hi,
Yeah Dell isn't ever on my consideration list

OEM bios updates are just simple .exe files unlike retail boards which are .cap files. not sure if one can use safe mode to run an bios .exe file but that would be a better option if there were no IN bios updating tools to use.

But most don't really need an oem bloatware assistant to do them just a simple process of downloading the file/ right clicking it and select properties and check the Unblock box/ save.

This is a common process to do to install lots of apps so MS doesn't block their operations that a user wants them to do.
Then right click the bios exe file again and select run as administrator and let it do it's thing a normal app the last bit here isn't necessary.

Third party security like mcafee or norton and likely a few others might still interfere though but even they would likely effect a oem assistant as well so this is why you'd want to elevate the process with run as admin.

neves said:

Anyway, since you can't buy a laptop - as custom build - here i would recommend to do the research and look for the best model in a given price (specifications and high ratings wise) - but "IGNORE THE BRAND".

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I would never buy another Acer, bought a top-of-the-line business model and it needed multiple new screens and other issues. Also, would never touch HP, just feel cheap and from experience they are. Wife has a Lenovo which is great and I'm on my second Dell. So there are only two brands that I would consider, love the Surface line but feel they are vastly overpriced.

My personal experience is this:

I have updated the bios constantly on over 1,000 machines in my lifetime in work and in my personal life. Mix of dell, Hp, and lenovo. I like the dell windows utility the best. I have always updated the bios through windows. Though I make sure its had a restart in the last week or so. I dont do it if the machine has an uptime of something crazy I restart and then do it.

Microsoft pushes it through windows updates now as well for newer machines.

I have only had only one failure in that entire time. And it was a HP laptop that had a ton of issues before I started it.

Updating the bios is important especially for vulnerabilities patching and the like. Especially on OEM machines. For custom built machines, it usually isn't worth it unless its security related.

markw51 said:

I would never buy another Acer, bought a top-of-the-line business model and it needed multiple new screens and other issues. Also, would never touch HP, just feel cheap and from experience they are. Wife has a Lenovo which is great and I'm on my second Dell. So there are only two brands that I would consider, love the Surface line but feel they are vastly overpriced.

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Hi,
Bought my first AMD system with 7840sn with 4060 gpu on an acer nitro 17 late last year sub 1000k.us put maybe 300.us more into it with 4tb ssd more storage and upped the memory to 32gbs
I clean installed of course but haven't had any issues I did get the little 2 year extended warranty to for that price hehe

Dell sure as hell isn't worth the extra bucks just for the name with same hardware lol
HP either.

I've had 7 Dell XPS computers. I'm on a Dell XPS 15 right now and if you click on My Computers, you can see the specs. I've loved this computer. The extended premium warranty expires at the end of next year and my next computer will be a Dell XPS 16 4K OLED.

And yes, I pay over $3,000 USD for a premium laptop computer. I know that I'm getting what I pay for.

TraderGary said:

I've had 7 Dell XPS computers. I'm on a Dell XPS 15 right now and if you click on My Computers, you can see the specs. I've loved this computer. The extended premium warranty expires at the end of next year and my next computer will be a Dell XPS 16 4K OLED.

And yes, I pay over $3,000 USD for a premium laptop computer. I know that I'm getting what I pay for.

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Hi,
3k.us for a 11900H my goodness Dell loves you

ThrashZone said:

Hi,
3k.us for a 11900H my goodness Dell loves you

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So what?

antspants said:

So what?

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Means it's true, a sucker is born every minute

ThrashZone said:

Means it's true, a sucker is born every minute

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Could you say anything more ignorant?

ThrashZone said:

Means it's true, a sucker is born every minute

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While I think that's an insane amount to spend on a machine for the specs, and I think it was a bad deal.....they like it. No need to belittle someone. This isn't high school.

Edit: It's still a cool machine, OLED is awesome. imho dell makes solid stuff.

This thread has ran its course and should be closed.

I love having a top-of-the-line Dell XPS laptop computer with an incredible OLED screen. I've worked hard to be in this position in my life. I can now buy what I want and not be concerned with the price.