Let's install Windows 11 on incompatible hardware

Mark Phelps · Sep 7, 2021

spapakons said:
Method 1: Create a Windows 10 USB Flash drive and replace the file install.wim (or install.esd) in the sources folder with that from Windows 11 ISO. I could boot into an old unsupported Acer laptop (see my specs) and successfully install Windows 11. Of course I cannot upgrade to a newer build directly, but I could try deleting the appropriate file from Windows Setup temporary files on disk C before starting the setup process (see earlier posts in this thread).

I recently used this method to upgrade to Win11 bld 22449 on an old, incompatible desktop -- and like with the other Win11 builds (22000.176) it is running without issue. I was frankly surprised this worked because I had expected, with the newer set of builds, that MS had put hardware checks into the OS that would prevent my PC from running Win11.

Lex24 · Sep 8, 2021

Almighty1 said:
Did some digging and it appears the PSF is PSF Extractor which can be found here:

GitHub - Secant1006/PSFExtractor: Extract CAB+PSF update for Windows

Extract CAB+PSF update for Windows. Contribute to Secant1006/PSFExtractor development by creating an account on GitHub.

github.com

Or you can try PSFX_Repack_2 or 4 created by abbodi. It can be found in /WHD/scripts section here:

abbodi1406 - Overview

not a developer. abbodi1406 has 15 repositories available. Follow their code on GitHub.

github.com

The script will create an extra file in UUPs directory, eg:

windows10.0-kb5006050-x64.cab
windows10.0-kb5006050-x64.psf
windows10.0-kb5006050-x64-full_psfx.cab

Almighty1 · Sep 8, 2021

Lex24 said:
Or you can try PSFX_Repack_2 or 4 created by abbodi. It can be found in /WHD/scripts section here:

abbodi1406 - Overview

not a developer. abbodi1406 has 15 repositories available. Follow their code on GitHub.

github.com

The script will create an extra file in UUPs directory, eg:

windows10.0-kb5006050-x64.cab
windows10.0-kb5006050-x64.psf
windows10.0-kb5006050-x64-full_psfx.cab

Interesting, Doesn't abbodi actually pack PSFExtractor in the PSF versions of W10UI though?

spapakons · Sep 13, 2021

If Microsoft is wise must relax the checks and let older machines run Windows 11. At least let them bypass the checks like is done for the Insider's builds, so they can claim that officially Windows 11 needs new hardware. The average user that does not have the knowledge to bypass the checks will buy a new PC, as planned. But the more advanced users will be able to run Windows 11 on their unsupported PCs unofficially and encourage others to also install Windows 11 on their systems. Microsoft can benefit by selling Windows 10 licenses to either install Windows 10 or activate Windows 11. It is a win-win case.

LeLibran · Sep 13, 2021

spapakons said:
It is a win-win case.

Well it might be, until users with unsupported hardware start complaining increasingly about apparent 'bugs' in Windows 11 that are, in reality, directly linked to 'older' hardware, e.g. age of processor and possibly 'missing' instruction sets. Worse still for Microsoft if their support services have to constantly and increasingly deflect questions and complaints about why 'x' feature doesn't work on 'older' hardware if they officially allow/approve those installations.

Windows 11 might (and does currently appear to) be working in many older PCs/Laptops but users like those on this forum are probably prepared for problems and have been pleasantly surprised that it seems to work; but what about users who are not as knowledgeable as many people here and want/expect to be able to use features that will inevitably and purposely designed/programmed to only address the newer hardware/firmware expressly included as a minimum requirement. Also, it seems to be inevitable that software developers will begin to design features which take direct advantage of Windows 11 and its supported hardware specification as it grabs an increasing share of the market.

SlicEnDicE · Sep 13, 2021

Incompatible instruction sets is no excuse at the moment to limit CPU compatibility. As long as we are running x86_64 code there can not be a limit or 100% of all apps ever compiled for the current 64bit architecture won't run anymore. Yes there are optimized instructions available in newer processors but that does not mean the old ones are obsolete. They are all as important.

jimbo45 · Sep 13, 2021

SlicEnDicE said:
Incompatible instruction sets is no excuse at the moment to limit CPU compatibility. As long as we are running x86_64 code there can not be a limit or 100% of all apps ever compiled for the current 64bit architecture won't run anymore. Yes there are optimized instructions available in newer processors but that does not mean the old ones are obsolete. They are all as important.

Hi there
Even back in the 1970's Hitachi and Amhdahl were doing things like "Microcode" fixing so non IBM mainframes could run IBM mainframe OS'es such as MVS on non IBM CPU's without a problem. Before "Booting" (in those days it was called IPL -- sorry to the Indian Cricket Premier league) but that meant "Initial Program Load" which was just a long winded way of saying "Boot" !!! - an 8 inch floppy disc would whir away to load some "CPU" emulation microcode stuff so the CPU's could work.

In VM's on PC's it shouldn't be inherently difficult to "emulate" missing CPU instructions --unless really old hardware is trying to "simulate" the very latest CPU's. I remember even on an XP machine running a VM of W7 X-64 even though the XP machine was a 32 bit OS -- the CPU did need to have 64 bit capability of course and limitation was Guest and Host RAM was limited to 4 GB but it did work !!!

I think a lot of modern designers have it too easy -- given some shortage of resources people can always make stuff work !!!!! -- Just look at what early NASA programs did with the VOYAGER programs -- one of those spacecraft is still sending back data today in spite of the fact the Computer on board probably had less power than a cheap calculator you could buy for a couple of dollars today.

Cheers
jimbo

Zardoc · Sep 13, 2021

jimbo45 said:
Hi there
Even back in the 1970's Hitachi and Amhdahl were doing things like "Microcode" fixing so non IBM mainframes could run IBM mainframe OS'es such as MVS on non IBM CPU's without a problem. Before "Booting" (in those days it was called IPL -- sorry to the Indian Cricket Premier league) but that meant "Initial Program Load" which was just a long winded way of saying "Boot" !!! - an 8 inch floppy disc would whir away to load some "CPU" emulation microcode stuff so the CPU's could work.

In VM's on PC's it shouldn't be inherently difficult to "emulate" missing CPU instructions --unless really old hardware is trying to "simulate" the very latest CPU's. I remember even on an XP machine running a VM of W7 X-64 even though the XP machine was a 32 bit OS -- the CPU did need to have 64 bit capability of course and limitation was Guest and Host RAM was limited to 4 GB but it did work !!!

I think a lot of modern designers have it too easy -- given some shortage of resources people can always make stuff work !!!!! -- Just look at what early NASA programs did with the VOYAGER programs -- one of those spacecraft is still sending back data today in spite of the fact the Computer on board probably had less power than a cheap calculator you could buy for a couple of dollars today.

Cheers
jimbo

Jimbo, I'm scared that you'll make a rocket crash somewhere with your VM tweaking!! :boom:

spapakons · Sep 14, 2021

Well no problem. Microsoft has the right to deny support if Windows 11 is running on unsupported hardware. They may also state that in the EULA. Also they have no responsibility about the Windows 10 license if the user activates Windows 11 instead of Windows 10 with it. They sold it as a Windows 10 license, and as such it works as expected. Let novice users using Windows 11 on unsupported hardware ask IT advice from the advanced friend who installed them to their machines in the first place (those that need support usually never install Windows by themselves).

erpster4 · Sep 15, 2021

erpster4 said:
a few weeks late on this but thanks. just installed Win11 Pro (build 22000.132) a while ago on a very old Dell laptop that uses Intel Core 2 Mobile T7600 CPU and 4gb of RAM (but only 3.25gb is usable to the Win11 OS) {see attached pic}

after using Win11 for a few weeks on that old Dell 2007 laptop, I've decided to end the Win11 experiment on there and have scrubbed (reformatted) the HDD. still a little disappointed that the default browser settings in the Settings app can't be easily set in Win11 (which is sort of a turn off to me)

gonna now install & test Win11 (build 22000.x) on a few other unsupported PCs (like my dad's Toshiba 2013 laptop which has UEFI but no TPM & using an embedded AMD A6-5200 APU and on my custom built desktop PC using an old AMD Socket AM3+ Gigabyte board which is non-UEFI based) until general release. i have a few spare HDDs to install Win11 on those old machines

pparks1 · Sep 15, 2021

From what we are seeing with the latest Insider Dev Release 22458, Microsoft is clamping down on the TPM2 and Secure Boot requirements. On previous releases, I could install it to any hardware I wanted to.

Today, I tried to clean install load to a VM with only 1 CPU and it would not let me. I tried to clean install via Hyper-V without Secure Boot or TPM available and it would not let me. It stopped the install right after I picked if I wanted 11 Home or 11 Pro and I could not proceed until I enabled those features.

jbcarreon123 · Sep 15, 2021

erpster4 said:
after using Win11 for a few weeks on that old Dell 2007 laptop, I've decided to end the Win11 experiment on there and have scrubbed (reformatted) the HDD. still a little disappointed that the default browser settings in the Settings app can't be easily set in Win11 (which is sort of a turn off to me)

gonna now install & test Win11 (build 22000.x) on a few other unsupported PCs (like my dad's Toshiba 2013 laptop which has UEFI but no TPM & using an embedded AMD A6-5200 APU and on my custom built desktop PC using an old AMD Socket AM3+ Gigabyte board which is non-UEFI based) until general release. i have a few spare HDDs to install Win11 on those old machines

Run an compatibility check after you install 11.

Windows 11 Compatibility Check

Windows 11 Compatibility Check This resource is now available on GitHub! Win11CompChk uses CMD, PowerShell, WMIC and more Built-in Windows tools to provide accurate results if your PC can run Windows 11. No installation or setup required! (In...

www.elevenforum.com

spapakons · Sep 23, 2021

Did you try to install the newer build directly or with the usual hacks? Directly should fail. Did you try creating a Windows 10 setup USB and replace the install.wim (or install.esd) file with that of Windows 11? Boot with that USB and let us know.

bill@7 · Sep 23, 2021

microsoft seriously needs to review its stance on cpus.

i did a pc health check with the window app .

CPU
AMD A12
Cores 4
Threads 4
Name AMD A12
Code Name Bristol Ridge
Package Socket FP4 (968)
Technology 28nm
Specification AMD A12-9720P RADEON R7, 12 COMPUTE CORES 4C+8G
Family F
Extended Family 15
Model 5
Extended Model 65
Stepping 1
Revision BR-A1
Instructions MMX (+), SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, SSE4A, AMD 64, NX, VMX, AES, AVX, AVX2, FMA3, FMA4
Virtualization Supported, Enabled
Hyperthreading Not supported
Stock Core Speed 2700 MHz
Stock Bus Speed 100 MHz
Average Temperature 51 °C
Caches
L1 Data Cache Size 4 x 32 KBytes
L1 Instructions Cache Size 2 x 96 KBytes
L2 Unified Cache Size 2 x 1024 KBytes
Cores
Core Speed Multiplier Bus Speed Temperature Threads
Core 0 3193.5 MHz x 32.0 99.8 MHz 51 °C APIC ID: 0
Core 1 2894.1 MHz x 29.0 99.8 MHz 51 °C APIC ID: 1
Core 2 2694.5 MHz x 27.0 99.8 MHz 51 °C APIC ID: 2
Core 3 2694.5 MHz x 27.0 99.8 MHz 51 °C APIC ID: 3

Edition Windows 11 Pro
Version 21H2
Installed on ‎22/‎09/‎2021
OS build 22000.194
Experience Windows Feature Experience Pack 1000.22000.194.0

it passed all the checks apart from it would not pass this , AMD A12-9720P RADEON R7, 12 COMPUTE CORES 4C+8G.

so my question is this why wont microsoft budge on the cpu, it dont make any sense at all that microsoft is pushing for people to go out and buy new laptops when most cases they dont have a cpu on the list, microsoft needs to take a step back and think very hard its very hard for people at this time some wont have spare cash to buy new laptops due to hard times since the pandemic and lose of jobs and every thing else that is going on, if some one from microsoft reads this show this to your boss.

BunnyJ · Sep 23, 2021

Pushing? You can still use 10 for at least 4 more years and in that time you or anyone can save up for a new PC or parts for their rig to meet the new requirements for 11. Oh and I doubt that the staff from MS will read your comment and pass it up the chain of command.

J

6391mb · Sep 23, 2021

bill@7 said:
so my question is this why wont microsoft budge on the cpu, it dont make any sense at all that microsoft is pushing for people to go out and buy new laptops when most cases they dont have a cpu on the list, microsoft needs to take a step back and think very hard its very hard for people at this time some wont have spare cash to buy new laptops due to hard times since the pandemic and lose of jobs and every thing else that is going on, if some one from microsoft reads this show this to your boss.

It adds to the conspiracy that MS are in bed with the hardware manufacturers to 'force' folks into spending money they may or may not have into buying new kit.

Of course if there's nothing you want/need from 11, then why bother.

Quandary · Sep 23, 2021

bill@7 said:
microsoft seriously needs to review its stance on cpus.

i did a pc health check with the window app .

CPU
AMD A12
Cores 4
Threads 4
Name AMD A12
Code Name Bristol Ridge
Package Socket FP4 (968)
Technology 28nm
Specification AMD A12-9720P RADEON R7, 12 COMPUTE CORES 4C+8G
Family F
Extended Family 15
Model 5
Extended Model 65
Stepping 1
Revision BR-A1
Instructions MMX (+), SSE, SSE2, SSE3, SSSE3, SSE4.1, SSE4.2, SSE4A, AMD 64, NX, VMX, AES, AVX, AVX2, FMA3, FMA4
Virtualization Supported, Enabled
Hyperthreading Not supported
Stock Core Speed 2700 MHz
Stock Bus Speed 100 MHz
Average Temperature 51 °C
Caches
L1 Data Cache Size 4 x 32 KBytes
L1 Instructions Cache Size 2 x 96 KBytes
L2 Unified Cache Size 2 x 1024 KBytes
Cores
Core Speed Multiplier Bus Speed Temperature Threads
Core 0 3193.5 MHz x 32.0 99.8 MHz 51 °C APIC ID: 0
Core 1 2894.1 MHz x 29.0 99.8 MHz 51 °C APIC ID: 1
Core 2 2694.5 MHz x 27.0 99.8 MHz 51 °C APIC ID: 2
Core 3 2694.5 MHz x 27.0 99.8 MHz 51 °C APIC ID: 3

Edition Windows 11 Pro
Version 21H2
Installed on ‎22/‎09/‎2021
OS build 22000.194
Experience Windows Feature Experience Pack 1000.22000.194.0

it passed all the checks apart from it would not pass this , AMD A12-9720P RADEON R7, 12 COMPUTE CORES 4C+8G.

so my question is this why wont microsoft budge on the cpu, it dont make any sense at all that microsoft is pushing for people to go out and buy new laptops when most cases they dont have a cpu on the list, microsoft needs to take a step back and think very hard its very hard for people at this time some wont have spare cash to buy new laptops due to hard times since the pandemic and lose of jobs and every thing else that is going on, if some one from microsoft reads this show this to your boss.

MS is putting a stake in the ground. That AMD CPU does not support Hyperthreading which may limit the performance/security of some future feature of Win 11. You can continue running Win 10 for many more years (only buy a new laptop if you think you are missing something). Alternatly, you can try an install of a Win 11 ISO but at some point in its life cycle it may not get updates that rely on some function that your hardware does not support.

The unknown questions are:
1. will MS "brick" an unsupported machine (highly unlikely)
2. will MS block all updates to an unsupported machine (unlikely)
3. will MS filter updates to an unsupported machine, ie. only allowing the ones that do not require special hardware features (likely)
4. could an update that requires some hardware feature that is not present slip through and cause a BSOD (possible)
5. will a machine with updates from #3 be equivalent to the security/functionality of Win 10 (likely)

#5 may be the most critical one. Maybe this will help in your decision on how to proceed.

BunnyJ · Sep 23, 2021

Quandary said:
MS is putting a stake in the ground. That AMD CPU does not support Hyperthreading which may limit the performance/security of some future feature of Win 11. You can continue running Win 10 for many more years (only buy a new laptop if you think you are missing something). Alternatly, you can try an install of a Win 11 ISO but at some point in its life cycle it may not get updates that rely on some function that your hardware does not support.

The unknown questions are:
1. will MS "brick" an unsupported machine (highly unlikely)
2. will MS block all updates to an unsupported machine (unlikely)
3. will MS filter updates to an unsupported machine, ie. only allowing the ones that do not require special hardware features (likely)
4. could an update that requires some hardware feature that is not present slip through and cause a BSOD (possible)
5. will a machine with updates from #3 be equivalent to the security/functionality of Win 10 (likely)

#5 may be the most critical one. Maybe this will help in your decision on how to proceed.

2 I think MS will stop updates for unsupported devices. They've already indicated that they plan on doing this.

IMO,, MS is under no obligation to support old processors. They have for a number of years and they are allowed to change the requirements for the OS. Given Win 10 will be around for a while there's no need to rush out and get either new hardware or upgrade a current rig. But, people will continue to run 11 on non-compliant hardware.. it's the nature of the beast.

bill@7 · Sep 23, 2021

you all miss the point the some laptops are only a year old, in my case this laptop has no trouble in running window 11, there is no conspiracy , but take note please some hardware manufacturers are not even ready for window 11, windowsfx-10.8.4-plasma this is the new linux they have copied it to make it like windows 11, i am going to try it out and if its good then i might dump windows .

BunnyJ · Sep 23, 2021

bill@7 said:
you all miss the point the some laptops are only a year old, in my case this laptop has no trouble in running window 11, there is no conspiracy , but take note please some hardware manufacturers are not even ready for window 11, windowsfx-10.8.4-plasma this is the new linux they have copied it to make it like windows 11, i am going to try it out and if its good then i might dump windows .

Point is MS doesn't have to support older processors and as for hardware makers the only issue is if they they update the BIOS so it will default TPM 2 to on rather than off as it is in many. Asus is addressing that issue now and I got the update to have TPM on as a default. Edit and a year old laptop or desktop will more than likely meet the CPU requirements. The only issue is the TPM setting.