RAM uncertainty

I shared with you my reasons for preferring B die RAM. I've had other RAM go defective on me, but not B die RAM. Hear say has it doesn't get it. This is my personal experience. I suppose I should repeat myself and say that I'm not suggesting the B die RAM never has issues because I'm not. I'm pretty sure people will still be able to get DDR4 RAM in four years time. I'm guessing in about 5 years all of it will still be available on the used market, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if you could buy DDR4 on the retail market in some shape or form within the next 4 years.

I agree that DDR4 is not future proofing. I also think that for the most part future proofing is over-rated. Bleeding edge tech mainly means that you, the consumer, are the beta tester. Putting it simply: You pay companies top dollar to test their product. If that sort of thing floats your boat, so be it. Perhaps there needs to be a special category assigned to this sort of enthusiast. After all, there are all sort of enthusiasts.

DDR5 has some different architecture. it has dual channel per stick which actually makes it faster bot only because frequency.

If I'm still alive and kicking in 5 years I might even buy some DDR5 RAM. Indubitably DDR6 will be available on the retail market by then. The issues with DDR5 will have been worked out by then, hopefully. Mind, for this old grandpa, my DDR4 functions fine for my needs. In five years I might even bring a whole new definition to the term "Luddite".

Scannerman said:

If I'm still alive and kicking in 5 years I might even buy some DDR5 RAM. Indubitably DDR6 will be available on the retail market by then. The issues with DDR5 will have been worked out by then, hopefully. Mind, for this old grandpa, my DDR4 functions fine for my needs. In five years I might even bring a whole new definition to the term "Luddite".

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It's not all about DDR5, it doesn't pay to change whole PC because of it, it's just added bonus to system. In couple of years there will be no systems that uses DDR4. AMD's Zen 4 already can't use DDR4, only DDR5 and next Intel too, So if you want to upgrade to new you will have to use DDR5, wanting it or not. There are other things that would require DDR5, It's PCIe gen5 and would loose functionality without DDR5 architecture,
BTW, DDR6 and PCIe 6 standards are already set,

YUP. I know about the PCIe 6 standards. I'm pretty sure I'll still be able to use my PCIe 4 PC for the next 4 years. I still have a DELL PC running Win 10 on DDR2. Isn't that amazing? I have two other systems running X58 platforms that can access the internet and boot to multiple operating systems. There will be thousands of systems that still use DDR4 running in the next couple of years and for the most part they will still function. They just won't be on the retail market as much. I'm guessing you won't be able to purchase many pre-builds with DDR4 in them by 2027 on the retail market but they will still be for sale on web sites like E-Bay and they will be very affordable.

In the end it really is about user preference and how many of those new features the user wants to use. Most people these days are still using DDR3 and there has been a huge slump in the industry because of this. Hence, the big push for TPM2, UEFI, and dare I say? Windows 11. We gots to move these newer PCS!

Scannerman said:

I shared with you my reasons for preferring B die RAM. I've had other RAM go defective on me, but not B die RAM. Hear say has it doesn't get it. This is my personal experience. I suppose I should repeat myself and say that I'm not suggesting the B die RAM never has issues because I'm not. I'm pretty sure people will still be able to get DDR4 RAM in four years time. I'm guessing in about 5 years all of it will still be available on the used market, but it wouldn't surprise me in the least if you could buy DDR4 on the retail market in some shape or form within the next 4 years.

I agree that DDR4 is not future proofing. I also think that for the most part future proofing is over-rated. Bleeding edge tech mainly means that you, the consumer, are the beta tester. Putting it simply: You pay companies top dollar to test their product. If that sort of thing floats your boat, so be it. Perhaps there needs to be a special category assigned to this sort of enthusiast. After all, there are all sort of enthusiasts.

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Don't now if you were talking to me, but I don't beta test any of my hardware. I usually stay a little behind the pack and do my research

No doubt that there are and will be a lot of working PCs left over and "obsolete" in sense that there are newer ones of same class. Biggest strides were made by CPUs and GPUs but all is within 10-15% improvements between generations. Another major component, motherboard hardly improved much, most changes are in CPU socket and chipset to fit CPUs and very little of new functions. PCIe gen3 standard for instance still had enough power not to be a bottleneck for GPUs until last generation and even that is some 10% in nest case, Memory doesn't have even that much influence in overall performance, double it's speed and whole system gains few % which translates into 2-5 frame rates in games. (G)RAM in GPUS has most influence and is usually a generation newer than system RAM.
System RAM changes generation only to match architecture of CPU to be compatible with it and eventually to avoid becoming a bottleneck. That in turn necessitates MB architecture changes and so roundyround.
DDR5 is actually first major generation change since DDR1 as it not only brings larger capacity but also virtual quad channel which only server systems had in past, That is it's main advantage making it have more influence in overall performance
All of that still it doesn't make couple of generations older system to be obsolete to point of being less usable.

CountMike said:

No doubt that there are and will be a lot of working PCs left over and "obsolete" in sense that there are newer ones of same class. Biggest strides were made by CPUs and GPUs but all is within 10-15% improvements between generations. Another major component, motherboard hardly improved much, most changes are in CPU socket and chipset to fit CPUs and very little of new functions. PCIe gen3 standard for instance still had enough power not to be a bottleneck for GPUs until last generation and even that is some 10% in nest case, Memory doesn't have even that much influence in overall performance, double it's speed and whole system gains few % which translates into 2-5 frame rates in games. (G)RAM in GPUS has most influence and is usually a generation newer than system RAM.
System RAM changes generation only to match architecture of CPU to be compatible with it and eventually to avoid becoming a bottleneck. That in turn necessitates MB architecture changes and so roundyround.
DDR5 is actually first major generation change since DDR1 as it not only brings larger capacity but also virtual quad channel which only server systems had in past, That is it's main advantage making it have more influence in overall performance
All of that still it doesn't make couple of generations older system to be obsolete to point of being less usable.

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So right you are. The real significant jump in the past 20 years IMO was the switch from IDE to SATA. That's not to say that the transition to DDR2 RAM wasn't significant also, but it was PCIe that really brought about notable change back in the day. Not long after this Quad Core and DDR3 followed and stuck around for a long time with 2-3% incremental improvements at best with each generation of CPU. Who could forget the olde tic-toc Ivy/Sandy bridge era? But when you look back and consider the overall improvements with these platforms the percentages are in fact, small. It has taken nearly two decades for clock speeds on CPUs, for example, to move from 3.0GHz to over 4. Clearly the industry knows how to milk the market because there's no way anyone can tell me R&D moves that slow and convince me that this is the case.

So we roll with the punches and take it in stride. If Microsoft were really using their noggins they would have made a version of Windows 11 that worked fine for older systems and a Windows 11 for the TPM2 platform. Methinks they would sell considerably more operating systems in this regard instead of trying to render nearly everybody's PC obsolete just because it's over three years old. They could have developed say, Windows 11 Old School for MBR systems, standard EFI and UEFI (minus TPM) while offering a more comprehensive Windows 11 Advanced version for all those neophyte users who are just dying to engage in all the new security protocols and the latest in end user hardware. You know, like a Windows distro! lol. And this they could do because Microsoft cares so much about our environment and all the e waste generated from people throwing away old PCs (that still function) that they actually give us an alternative! Wow. what a concept. I suppose they'll just have to let Linux pick up the tab on that one.

cheers

All looks fine om paper, Wow, memory twice as fast although that means 2 FPS in a game.
IDE to SATA HDD, twice as fast but equals 1 second faster windows BOOT. SCSI 2 seconds for 4x the price,
Sata SSD, 4-10 times faster depending on the function, same for SATA to NVME/PCIe. 3000-7000 I/ops but windows do 54, All just numbers but main improvement is less load on the rest of system up to a point. Main improvement was HDD to SSD but faster SSD already much less, some even swear they don't notice any difference with NVMe drives of highest speeds.
Only when you connect all dots, CPU, RAM, GPU, disks and all match perfectly one could see real improvement.
Oh almost forgot, OS and SW have to match too, If using just a browser it wouldn't be any faster even on a super computer,

Pretty much, yes. But when I move from daughter's X58 platform to my work station, or to my other daughter's Z97 Haswell 4790K rig, the difference is quite noticable and one can 'feel' it in navigation, responsiveness, and gaming. One does hit a wall with SSDs. The human brain will NOT be able to detect the difference between NVMe and SATA during standard use but it certainly can be adequately demonstrated in real time with large file transfers and that is where the real benefit to NVMe is found. Another way of testing this is to observe how quickly a Windows OS installation takes to complete on NVMe, for example. It's blazing fast compared to the old IDE/CD ROM days. So noticeable improvements are made incrementally and collectively over years while all the advertising hype and boasting is simply what it is: Hype.

That's what I call "progressive progression" a bit like a frog in hot water thing, Or like seeing a kid every day you don't notice the growth, but if you see in couple of years kid looks much taller,

CountMike said:

That's what I call "progressive progression" a bit like a frog in hot water thing, Or like seeing a kid every day you don't notice the growth, but if you see in couple of years kid looks much taller,

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Good analogy. Looks like we're due for a revolution in the evolution of increMENTAL growth @ the domestic end user level. Then again, necessity is the mother of invention. Recreation and Entertainment are a big factor but we, the plebs, must step aside for the number crunchers who have moved on to Quantum computing. We are obliged to be happy with our humble pittance.

Scannerman said:

Depends. Gamers rarely need more than 32 GB of high frequency/low latency RAM on board. 64 GB would be a "future proofing" thing at best, or a senseless waste. Most might consider it a waste. I remember when 8 GB was considered a waste. In most cases you're already taking a modest hit in performance with 32 GB as compared to 16 of the same.

I'm a fan of B die RAM, not just for gaming. I like it for performance and stability. Timings tend to run tighter and B die is usually more durable. I don't even think I've ever had a stick of B die RAM die on me yet. (This is not to say that it doesn't happen.) I have 32 GB of B die RAM on my old gaming rig because I use it for more than gaming. I simply don't game enough to justify the cost of a gaming rig. Building my own gaming rig was a bucket list thing for me because I built so many gaming PCs for others. I wanted to build one for myself.

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Though this gamer only has 32gig of RAM, I'll always want the best performing RAM I can afford. The main system in my system specs is running with 32gig of B-die RAM from Corsair @3600MHz C16 @16-18-18-36-2T. You can see my modules here and here.

Did it massively, or even slightly enhance my gaming... no. Still as a PC builder I want the best performing parts I can afford. That's me.

Additionally, as a photographer who runs both Adobe Lightroom and Photoshop, the more RAM the better, and thus my next build will most likely have 64gig of RAM.

Dru2 said:

Though this gamer only has 32gig of RAM, I'll always want the best performing RAM I can afford. The main system in my system specs is running with 32gig of B-die RAM from Corsair @3600MHz C16 @16-18-18-36-2T. You can see my modules here and here.

Did it massively, or even slightly enhance my gaming... no. Still as a PC builder I want the best performing parts I can afford. That's me.

Additionally, as a photographer who runs both Adobe Lightroom and Photoshop, the more RAM the better, and thus my next build will most likely have 64gig of RAM.

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This gamer isn't that much of a gamer to justify 32 GB but this gamer still has it: 32 GB of B-die binned by T-FORCE TEAM GROUP running @ 3666 MHz w a CAS of 15-15-15. So I suppose we share the same sentiments regarding RAM although I wouldn't gamble with Corsair anymore as my experience with their LPX RAM proved dicey. BUILDZOID did a video on that and it explained everything in spades for me. Now lest anyone might think I'm dissing the platinum reputation of Corsair, my work station uses 128 GB of Corsair Dominator RAM and I believe this too, is B-die RAM. I even took a picture of it after I installed it. *edit: Dru2, that really is some nice looking RAM and I'm pretty sure you got the real McCoy by choosing the Dominator name. No doubt you could even tighten those timings a wee bit more without much effort. Good choice! :)

I have 4 x 8 DDR4 Corsair ram in this pc and CPU-Z tells me that the chips are Samsung, surely nothing wrong with that.

tinmar49 said:

I have 4 x 8 DDR4 Corsair ram in this pc and CPU-Z tells me that the chips are Samsung, surely nothing wrong with that.

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If I were to venture a guess it would probably also be B die RAM.

Thanks for all the input, guys. So far so good with the Ram.

I updated the BIOS successfully to 0810 from the board's shipped 0411.

However, now I'm stuck on the "Let's get you connected to a network screen". The NEXT prompt is greyed out even though my ethernet is plugged in to this new build and I even put in the new Windows 11 key.

I have been troubleshooting it aka.ms/networksetup but no luck.

Shift and F10 brings up command box but typing on the keyboard shows nothing.

Ctrl + Shift + Esc brings up processes including Network Connection Flow, but ending this task then says I've lost connection to the internet.

What do I do now?

Do you have a network icon in your sys tray?

sjc312 said:

Thanks for all the input, guys. So far so good with the Ram.

I updated the BIOS successfully to 0810 from the board's shipped 0411.

However, now I'm stuck on the "Let's get you connected to a network screen". The NEXT prompt is greyed out even though my ethernet is plugged in to this new build and I even put in the new Windows 11 key.

I have been troubleshooting it aka.ms/networksetup but no luck.

Shift and F10 brings up command box but typing on the keyboard shows nothing.

Ctrl + Shift + Esc brings up processes including Network Connection Flow, but ending this task then says I've lost connection to the internet.

What do I do now?

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You may need to install the latest drivers for your internet from the system board manufacturer. You could get them with another working PC by installing them on a USB stick after visiting the support section on their web page. Just download the appropriate driver, copy to a USB stick, plug it into your new build, (unzip) and install.

Scannerman said:

Do you have a network icon in your sys tray?

You may need to install the latest drivers for your internet from the system board manufacturer. You could get them with another working PC by installing them on a USB stick after visiting the support section on their web page. Just download the appropriate driver, copy to a USB stick, plug it into your new build, (unzip) and install.

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Sys tray not showing up on that particular page.

I've already downloaded my mobo's drivers onto a USB drive, but I can't even get into Windows to install them as the pc keeps booting into "Is this the right country or region?" and then "Is this the right keyboard?" and then "Let's get you connected to a network".

The pc ethernet connection is green, which I assume means I have network accesss. Also, Windows did not accept my original Windows key input as I made a mistake, but once I corrected it I was able to continue with the installation.

Have you tried reinstalling the operating system? It sounds like you are using an Ethernet cable. Is that correct?

If you simply want to set up a local account just disconnect the cable and try installing without it. You may have to click "I don't have internet" twice before it lets you proceed. You can fix the rest of it up later, after the OS is finished installing.