I Just Gave Up With Norton

johnlgalt · Nov 9, 2023

What goes up ... must come down.

I also remember when MSE was the bombtastic new kid on the block but started out-performing or performing as equally well as any other av product out there.

Then, it was left to die a slow, slow death, as that is when Microsoft had already started transitioning to working full time on Defender (or, rather, what would eventually become Defender), IIRC.

Almighty1 · Nov 10, 2023

johnlgalt said:
I agree with this, except that, for a while there, (early Win 7 days, IIRC) Symantec Anti Virus (Corporate Edition) was hands down the best, fastest, and second lightest in resource usage on Windows Desktop PCs for a while.

Right up until they started putting in bogus consumer-level features to get more sales of their consumer offerings. At that point they died for me. But NAV for DOS got me out of a massive pickle from a self-replicating and propagating ... worm, I suppose it should be called ... and NU was that absolute, must have set of utilities for all things disk related and many things file system related.

And I was 11 in '82.

Yeah, you are right. Forgot about that one and never used it since I was talking about Norton AntiVirus, Symantec AntiVirus doesn't carry the Norton name.

I know someone got some virus from a floppy and both McAfee and Norton had it in the definitions, McAfee successfully cleaned it while Norton did not, this was in 1993. In 1998, a Bank of Hawaii branch had a virus and this time Norton worked but McAfee didn't. They couldn't wait for their IT department to fix it and I was visiting one of the banking staff's family a few blocks away. I actually like the registry cleaner in Norton Utilities as it is the only one that was safe.

Almighty1 · Nov 10, 2023

Zardoc said:
When Symantec took over Drive image, I left (Drive Image). Then They took over PGP. Left (PGP) too.

Symantec is way too intrusive, same reason I left Acronis (yearly subscription) I still use the Acronis free with WD drives.

Symantec seemed to have killed everything they took over including Drive Image, Ghost, WinFax Pro.

Avast, AVG, Piriform (yes CCleaner) are all owned by Symantec, now known as Gen Digital.

I remember there was a time when Acronis had issues with the images they created in the late 1990's or 2000s I believe. Forgot what it was.

@TraderGary - Most of the time, I don't update the My Computer section. I might update the hardware and OS but certainly not the security system information because just like home security systems, you don't advertise what you using since should there be known tools to use to disable it remotely, it will only make it easy for the people with bad intentions. I usually only input the data once which is why my tenforums profile might be obsolete.

flashh4 · Nov 10, 2023

When i first started my Malware Training at a school i will not name on here but the teachers drilled it into us to always tell everyone about Norton & McAfee that they were resource hogs & will slow down a computer ! I still warn them as of today when i clean a computer & let them decide if they want to keep it ! And Registery cleaners are diff a no no ! Just my thoughts and teachers opinion backed up by much research.

johnlgalt · Nov 10, 2023

Almighty1 said:
Yeah, you are right. Forgot about that one and never used it since I was talking about Norton AntiVirus, Symantec AntiVirus doesn't carry the Norton name.

I know someone got some virus from a floppy and both McAfee and Norton had it in the definitions, McAfee successfully cleaned it while Norton did not, this was in 1993. In 1998, a Bank of Hawaii branch had a virus and this time Norton worked but McAfee didn't. They couldn't wait for their IT department to fix it and I was visiting one of the banking staff's family a few blocks away. I actually like the registry cleaner in Norton Utilities as it is the only one that was safe.

Around that same time frame I was infected by one of the early variants of the lizard infections (lzh). As a kid, I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread to make all my archives self extracting, and had hundreds of little self-extracting archives ready to go in a folder - and poof! lizard gobbled them up and rendered them inoperable.

Fortunately:

1. NAV for DOS fixed them all, to a point - the self-extraction module was still broken, but the archive was not, and I was able to successfully extract every once and create new, proper archives - without the self-extracting feature.

2. I've never used a McAfee product for DOS. I really want to say I've never used one for Windows either, but I used WoT back in the day when it was new, and they're now a McAfee product, right?

Almighty1 · Nov 10, 2023

johnlgalt said:
Around that same time frame I was infected by one of the early variants of the lizard infections (lzh). As a kid, I thought it was the best thing since sliced bread to make all my archives self extracting, and had hundreds of little self-extracting archives ready to go in a folder - and poof! lizard gobbled them up and rendered them inoperable.

Fortunately:

1. NAV for DOS fixed them all, to a point - the self-extraction module was still broken, but the archive was not, and I was able to successfully extract every once and create new, proper archives - without the self-extracting feature.

2. I've never used a McAfee product for DOS. I really want to say I've never used one for Windows either, but I used WoT back in the day when it was new, and they're now a McAfee product, right?

I never actually used AVs normally back then if I remembered correctly. The only reason I think I used McAfee originally to fix someone else's problems was because I think McAfee was around first as in being well known since AVs were not big in 1985 when I was BBSing or ran a BBS and McAfee was the one that was well known, Norton I think came around later as I think they were more known for Norton Utilities which was a competitor to Central Point PC Tools and ofcourse Symantec apparently took over Central Point as well, always wondered where they went. I don't think I had a AV installed under maybe in Windows XP as I don't remember really actively using one for 95/98/ME either. Symantec seemed to be more well known originally on the Mac as that was the AV everyone used.

Scannerman · Nov 10, 2023

antspants said:
My decisions are not made due to a softwares origins but on the software itself. I don’t generalise countries when referring to anything (that I am aware I have ever done, better identified as bigoted views) I also have read all the conspiracy and reports directed at Kaspersky, because it is “Russian” I can identify propaganda when I see it. If I am wrong, that’s on me. I take full responsibilities for my own actions.

I recall a time when Microsoft was dissing Kaspersky because Kaspersky caught them pulling their own shenanigans, but that's another story. I trust Kaspersky well enough as they have caught malware trying to invade my system before Windows even knew it existed more than once. No VS is perfect, but those boys in Russia certainly know their stuff. And no, I don't think they're any more all wrapped up in politics than the techies here, in North America, are. In fact, I think ethical, moral, and decent folk are found all over the globe despite what the media moguls and power hungry politicians are into. I'm pretty sure these boys keep their nose's clean in the knowledge that NSA, MOSSAD, CSIS, and the rest of the alphabet soup companies are keeping a close eye on them.

antspants · Nov 10, 2023

Scannerman said:
I recall a time when Microsoft was dissing Kaspersky because Kaspersky caught them pulling their own shenanigans, but that's another story. I trust Kaspersky well enough as they have caught malware trying to invade my system before Windows even knew it existed more than once. No VS is perfect, but those boys in Russia certainly know their stuff. And no, I don't think they're any more all wrapped up in politics than the techies here, in North America, are. In fact, I think ethical, moral, and decent folk are found all over the globe despite what the media moguls and power hungry politicians are into. I'm pretty sure these boys keep their nose's clean in the knowledge that NSA, MOSSAD, CSIS, and the rest of the alphabet soup companies are keeping a close eye on them.

I just hope that the American antitrust laws are still on top of Microsoft.
What I do find interesting is that during the America vs Microsoft court proceedings, one of the noted complaints I believe was IE. Microsoft was kicked in the butt for not allowing people to uninstall Internet Explorer. Yet here we are with things like OneDrive and Edge issues.
Maybe the politicians are getting a bigger take now?

Almighty1 · Nov 10, 2023

antspants said:
I just hope that the American antitrust laws are still on top of Microsoft.
What I do find interesting is that during the America vs Microsoft court proceedings, one of the noted complaints I believe was IE. Microsoft was kicked in the butt for not allowing people to uninstall Internet Explorer. Yet here we are with things like OneDrive and Edge issues.
Maybe the politicians are getting a bigger take now?

Yep, it's almost like AT&T breaking up into 7 or 8 Regional Bell Operating Companies and then SBC (Southwestern Bell Communications) which was one of the RBOCs... They bought out most of the RBOCs slowly and then even bought AT&T and assumed it's name.

antspants · Nov 10, 2023

Class actions aren’t as hard to instigate as people might think. They’re just the most complicated and expensive process one could imagine. I’ve seen people with no notable qualifications, standing or investment start a class action. The hardest part is finding a firm that is willing to take it on, without doing it for the fee’s alone. Lately i’ve wondered how long it will take for a new United States vs Microsoft Corp..

johnlgalt · Nov 11, 2023

Almighty1 said:
I never actually used AVs normally back then if I remembered correctly. The only reason I think I used McAfee originally to fix someone else's problems was because I think McAfee was around first as in being well known since AVs were not big in 1985 when I was BBSing or ran a BBS and McAfee was the one that was well known, Norton I think came around later as I think they were more known for Norton Utilities which was a competitor to Central Point PC Tools and ofcourse Symantec apparently took over Central Point as well, always wondered where they went. I don't think I had a AV installed under maybe in Windows XP as I don't remember really actively using one for 95/98/ME either. Symantec seemed to be more well known originally on the Mac as that was the AV everyone used.

Yeah. mine was well into the 90s, we didn't have the Gateway until at least '92. And, the more I think about it, I'm pretty sure it was a NAV Beta, and I used it simply because of how well NU performed and helped me both learn about my system as well as helped keep things running smoothly. It was a name (Peter Norton) that I trusted then.

Scannerman said:
I recall a time when Microsoft was dissing Kaspersky because Kaspersky caught them pulling their own shenanigans, but that's another story. I trust Kaspersky well enough as they have caught malware trying to invade my system before Windows even knew it existed more than once. No VS is perfect, but those boys in Russia certainly know their stuff. And no, I don't think they're any more all wrapped up in politics than the techies here, in North America, are. In fact, I think ethical, moral, and decent folk are found all over the globe despite what the media moguls and power hungry politicians are into. I'm pretty sure these boys keep their nose's clean in the knowledge that NSA, MOSSAD, CSIS, and the rest of the alphabet soup companies are keeping a close eye on them.

Ha. So what's your take on the NSO group then?

Just because the governments' alphabet soup agencies exist doesn't mean others out there are keeping their collective heads buried in the sand.

antspants said:
I just hope that the American antitrust laws are still on top of Microsoft.
What I do find interesting is that during the America vs Microsoft court proceedings, one of the noted complaints I believe was IE. Microsoft was kicked in the butt for not allowing people to uninstall Internet Explorer. Yet here we are with things like OneDrive and Edge issues.
Maybe the politicians are getting a bigger take now?

We have anti-trust laws? :ROFLMAO:

Seriously, though - issues with Edge and OneDrive are easily avoided - don't use them. if you use them, kinda hard to justify being able to uninstall them.

I keep Edge handy because it is good to use for access Microsoft account stuff. I keep Chrome around for the same reason dealing with my Google accounts. But I browse with Firefox and Firefox Nightly.

Almighty1 said:
Yep, it's almost like AT&T breaking up into 7 or 8 Regional Bell Operating Companies and then SBC (Southwestern Bell Communications) which was one of the RBOCs... They bought out most of the RBOCs slowly and then even bought AT&T and assumed it's name.

The ones they didn't buy out had an interesting ride, though.

Verizon Communications came from one of those 'baby bells', Bell Atlantic, and NYNex, and the baby bell of my area, Bellsouth, was bought up by the new AT&T that SBC transformed into.

US West bought QWEST, then that company bought CenturyLink, and is now Lumen. So, 3 of the original 7 baby bells never had to deal with SBC and are, to this day, still independent (technically, because Verizon came from a merger of 2 of those 3 lol).

antspants said:
Class actions aren’t as hard to instigate as people might think. They’re just the most complicated and expensive process one could imagine. I’ve seen people with no notable qualifications, standing or investment start a class action. The hardest part is finding a firm that is willing to take it on, without doing it for the fee’s alone. Lately i’ve wondered how long it will take for a new United States vs Microsoft Corp..

But there also needs to be not just deep pockets for it but extensive research for the CAs, otherwise they get thrown out too easily as well.

antspants · Nov 11, 2023

johnlgalt said:
We have anti-trust laws?

johnlgalt said:
Seriously, though - issues with Edge and OneDrive are easily avoided - don't use them.

We’re the lucky ones. What about all the unknowing users of Windows. To someone who doesn’t understand Windows like we do, it kind of looks like you don’t have a choice in it?

johnlgalt said:
But there also needs to be not just deep pockets for it but extensive research for the CAs, otherwise they get thrown out too easily as well.

I honestly don’t think it would be that hard this time. By default, Windows starts grabbing your stuff and throwing it on their server. Pretty ballsy?

johnlgalt · Nov 11, 2023

antspants said:
We’re the lucky ones. What about all the unknowing users of Windows. To someone who doesn’t understand Windows like we do, it kind of looks like you don’t have a choice in it?

We? I use OneDrive daily. I have my Documents, Photos and Videos auto-synchronizing to it.

I use Edge occasionally, for Microsoft stuff.

As for people not knowing, well, you can't put that on Microsoft. If the vast majority of people actually knew what they were doing with PCs, I'd never have gotten into the IT field 30 some-odd years ago (before it was even called IT).

antspants · Nov 11, 2023

johnlgalt said:
We? I use OneDrive daily. I have my Documents, Photos and Videos auto-synchronizing to it.

I use Edge occasionally, for Microsoft stuff.

As for people not knowing, well, you can't put that on Microsoft. If the vast majority of people actually knew what they were doing with PCs, I'd never have gotten into the IT field 30 some-odd years ago (before it was even called IT).

I personally don’t think there is anything wrong with using it, if it suits ones needs. I am pretty sure though, there is a case there if the securities commission really gave a crap. Remember, it’s only my opinion.

Dru2 · Nov 11, 2023

johnlgalt said:
We? I use OneDrive daily. I have my Documents, Photos and Videos auto-synchronizing to it.

OneDrive has become an app I couldn't be without. In fact, I even have the app setup on my android phone. Very convenient app if you put your fears away and learn it. I don't even carry thumb drives anymore. My phone with OneDrive is my thumb drive

johnlgalt said:
As for people not knowing, well, you can't put that on Microsoft. If the vast majority of people actually knew what they were doing with PCs, I'd never have gotten into the IT field 30 some-odd years ago (before it was even called IT).

As I've been saying for years... owning a PC is an active endeavor, not a passive one. Fear just keeps you in the dark.

TraderGary · Nov 11, 2023

Dru2 said:
OneDrive has become an app I couldn't be without. In fact, I even have the app setup on my android phone. Very convenient app if you put your fears away and learn it. I don't even carry thumb drives anymore. My phone with OneDrive is my thumb drive

As I've been saying for years... owning a PC is an active endeavor, not a passive one. Fear just keeps you in the dark.

Having used OneDrive for over 15 years, I too cannot be without my OneDrive. I keep all my data and photos in OneDrive, and it's always been my offsite backup portion of my backup strategy. I particularly love it whenever I get a new computer and the moment I log in to Windows, OneDrive automatically activates, and all my data and photos are instantly there!

I certainly agree with the value of having OneDrive on my Android phone. My photos are set to automatically back up to OneDrive at their full resolution. I love it that any photo I've ever taken over the years on any camera is readily available on my phone.

Stigg · Nov 11, 2023

I gave up with Norton about 25 years ago.

Scannerman · Nov 11, 2023

antspants said:
We’re the lucky ones. What about all the unknowing users of Windows. To someone who doesn’t understand Windows like we do, it kind of looks like you don’t have a choice in it?

I honestly don’t think it would be that hard this time. By default, Windows starts grabbing your stuff and throwing it on their server. Pretty ballsy?

Sure. It's big. It's bad. It's scarey. It's also reality. Every time I think I have One Drive shut down, turned off, deactivated it mysteriously reactivates and I have to fight it for my documents all over again. Normally I don't even talk about it anymore. I don't care anymore. Hey You... Windoze! Get off of my cloud! :lmao:

It ain't gonna happen. A couple of updates later and it's back for more. So I surrender: Windows doesn't respect me so I don't respect them. Yo! Respect. Kinda like GOOGLE saying, "Don't be evil". What a joke.

It just is what it is. My way of dealing with all this is simple: I agreed to the EULA. The EULA is not there for my protection. The EULA is there strictly for the corporation — not the user. It's Windows way or the highway. That's the deal we're dealing in. The corporation might tolerate our tweaking and "fixing" and fiddling about for a time, learn whatever there is to learn about how the user is using Windows own property, and if they find it amusing, interesting, or harmless, the user may be permitted to carry on indefinitely. If Windows does not like what Windows sees you get swatted. Ooops! Back to the drawing board. lol

I've been swatted a few times. I use Windows software but it's MY HARDWARE. I can do what I want with my hardware and Windows can and does do what it wants with their software whether I like it or not. I will continue to do what I want with my hardware (whether Windows likes it or not) and Windows will continue to do what they will with their software (whether I like it or not). Fair enough.

Windows cannot dictate to me what I do with my hardware. I cannot dictate to Windows what to do with their software. I just learn to roll with the punches while I continually remind Windows that the hardware on this end is my property.

*one more thing* When you poke fun at the old Harlot don't be surprised if people take personal offence. I've learned they often make the grievous error of identifying with her. She is their Santa Maria. They will think you're making fun of them. There will be times when you'll be required to elucidate. As for myself, meh... She sure does know how to dance! For a good time, call Windows.

antspants · Nov 11, 2023

It gets to the point I can’t uninstall it, I’ll quit redirecting my user folders to another drive as I currently do, leave them empty on C and use the registry to change whatever needs to be changed for software save defaults to anything other than user folders.. Photos/documents folders will be forever empty. My settings, I am happy to have saved online. Yes.. I don’t care that people use it. Each to their own, if it works for them I say, awesome.

antspants · Nov 11, 2023

Scannerman said:
*one more thing* When you poke fun at the old Harlot don't be surprised if people take personal offence. I've learned they often make the grievous error of identifying with her. She is their Santa Maria. They will think you're making fun of them. There will be times when you'll be required to elucidate. As for myself, meh... She sure does know how to dance! For a good time, call Windows.

I don’t know why, I’m not sure what’s hard to understand about not wanting your stuff hijacked to the cloud by default.