Solved Please explain following.

Hey all.
So, just reinstalled windows 11 in the last couple of days and just finished with the updates. Installed fresh from MSI folder.
Got GPUZ to analyze and got this:


Now, before the install, the CPU ran (and this is another question for latter) @3690MHz.
After a BIOS update it now runs @3890MHz.
Is this due to the BIOS update?
Also, I have the base clock running @2.9MHZ but, I can't find it on any reviewers sites.
All I can find is the 12900HK @ 2.5 MHZ.
The name of this notebook is:

MSI GE76 Raider 12UGS 033CA

Windows Info:
Device name Flashorn
Processor 12th Gen Intel(R) Core(TM) i9-12900HK 2.90 GHz
Installed RAM 32.0 GB (31.8 GB usable)
Graphics RTX 3070Ti
Device ID
Product ID
System type 64-bit operating system, x64-based processor
Pen and touch No pen or touch input is available for this display
Edition Windows 11 Home
Version 22H2
Installed on ‎6/‎27/‎2023
OS build 22621.1928
Experience Windows Feature Experience Pack 1000.22644.1000.0

Can anyone find any info on why this is and also explain the CPUZ log please.

Thanks .

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Doing a bios update can reset all bios settings to default, possibly explaining the jump. What is left unexplained is why it was a lower mhz prior to the update? Usually it is when people overclock through bios, it gets defaulted bringing down the mhz..

Hey James!
Thanks for responding.

OK, I think I formulated this question the wrong way or with not enough info. Sorry.

This notebook is a 2.9MHz i9. Now, I pre-ordered it in December of 2021 from Newegg Canada.
I was waiting for it to come down the pipes and got it in late January of 2022.

I did not overclock any of the settings either in BIOS or from the MSI Centre which you can do.
When I first got it and bench marked it with all the normal apps, I got the numbers I was expecting.
CPUZ however, came back with the first benchmark back in January of 3690MHz. This was unexpected.
Did a first BIOS update and the numbers in CPUZ were the same. Just in the last few days, I updated the BIOS
again to their latest and got this jump.

Could MSI have over clocked it from the manufacture? I tried to find info on this for the last three days but, to no avail.

OH, and it gets hot. Core 3 and core 5 both get to 100 TjMax or just under it when playing AAA games even with Turbo fans on
but, normal temps when just hoovering for info. And yes it does get enough space under it as the back end is a bit
elevated.

Also, as I mentioned, all the reviews be it from Teck Powerup or Anan or Tom's Hardware or independent reviewers
all have the same Raider as mine except their CPUs are the 2.5 MHz version. I just can't find a 2.9 Mhz Raider anywhere
well, at least where I know where to normally find credible info. Would you think this an one of kind mistake from MSI ?

I know, lots of questions but, I'm a curious one as we all are here.

Thanks again.

Flashorn said:

Could MSI have over clocked it from the manufacture? I tried to find info on this for the last three days but, to no avail.

Click to expand...

I think - but don’t quote me on this - yes they can.

The 2.90Ghz is the base Max-clock before Boost, Boost clock is variable dependant on voltage/current/cooling so a boost of 3.7/3.9 is not unimaginable, as for the slight extra boost, more than likely the newer BIOS is more efficient and so is running the CPU at a slightly lower Voltage/Current, giving lower temps and a higher stable boost clock speed (NB. Boost will fall as temps rise on longer workloads)

The Spec sheet has it listed as intel does to boost anywhere up to 5Ghz, in a lab... (you will never get there in a real world laptop) So take the extra boost as a little free tweak.

NB. looks like MSI are just running the chip a little harder to get the 2.9Ghz Base figure, and boosting from there. or its a mistype somewhere.

I do not know if it helps.

And about temp at 100 degree, I would do something , so that Temp should stay at 85 Degree, not beyond just to be safe.
I

Aramil said:

NB. looks like MSI are just running the chip a little harder to get the 2.9Ghz Base figure, and boosting from there. or its a mistype somewhere.

Click to expand...

Thanks for your response Aramil!

My theory is that MSI found out that pushing the CPU to 2.9 was probably a mistake and so, in the versions of this notebook that followed,
they have reduced the base frequency to 2.5 to reduce heat. Remember that this is the first in the series GE76 that was sold and I did
pre-order it when it was first advertised. I guess the ones that did end up with this version , we were beta testing it and that is not funny
considering the price we had to pay for something like this. It is still a good notebook and runs my AAA games (all) @ over 100 FPS but,
the heat is still there.

Another mistake on that reference sheet is that, there are 2 M.2 slots but, only one (the OS drive) runs PCIe 4. The other slot is only PCIe 3.

I still like this one and never had a Core i9 before but, in hindsight, I should have stuck with the Core i7 and 3080 . My last MSI was the
Titan GT73 bought in 2017. This one is still going strong but with a gen 7 CPU well, windows 11 will not install. I know I could make it
but, prefer for now to keep Windows 10 on it.

Live and learn.

Thanks again for your answer and time.

@Flashorn

You CAN put Win 11 on the GT73 if you want, and you can probably turn the speed on the GE76 down, if you want.


The CPU speed is governed by the bus speed (frequency), and the multiplier.
You shouldn't mess with the bus speed. The multiplier is probably set to Auto.
There are probably 1-3 other settings that determine where the multiplier sits, both at low speed and at boost speed.

Unfortunately, overclocking or de-overclocking is not very easy on a laptop.
You should probably just leave things as they are and watch for a newer (non-beta) BIOS.

There MAY be a general overclock setting, that you can adjust.
Something like... normal, fast, faster... etc. Or maybe OC setting 1, 2, 3, etc.
It's hard to tell without the BIOS manual or actually seeing the BIOS settings.

adalwar said:

Intel® Core™ i9-12900HK Processor (24M Cache, up to 5.00 GHz) Product Specifications

Intel® Core™ i9-12900HK Processor (24M Cache, up to 5.00 GHz) quick reference guide including specifications, features, pricing, compatibility, design documentation, ordering codes, spec codes and more.

ark.intel.com

I do not know if it helps.

And about temp at 100 degree, I would do something , so that Temp should stay at 85 Degree, not beyond just to be safe.
I

Click to expand...

Hey adalwar!

Thanks for your time.

Geez, you guys and gals have weird names

OK, so where in the world did we all come up with this info.
I have searched for something like this for the last three days.

As for the temps, I have Core-Temp to evaluate. I have been using it for some years and has been pretty good over that time period.
Now, in the MSI Center the temps shown are always in the 70*C ish. I did see it going to 80 something while playing games but, thought it would still be fine. The CPU is rated @ 100*C TjMax but, I guess it will slow down once it reaches that temp.
But, will it slow down just because one Core reaches TjMax? It's one of the power cores being Core 3.

I don't know if the MSI Center is only reading the lowest temp from all the Cores.
I just now took a screen of Core-Temp while answering your post and this is what it looks like.
As you can see, Core 3 has maxed at 81*C just opening the app. but still looks good simply typing.
So, my point : is Core-Temp still trustworthy or maybe you have an alternate suggestion??

Thanks again adalwar .

I would be more concerned at the cores running at 100% than the marginal increase in clock. I would worry if the i9 in my PC ran at 100 degrees with all it's cooling and air flow space. I would REALLY be worried if mine was a laptop that doesn't cool nearly as efficiently as a PC does. I don't care what Intel says that these CPUs are built to handle the heat. I guess I'm old school in my thinking because waaaay back in electronics class we were told heat kills electronics....and the cpu is not the only piece that is affected by high temps in the case.

That bring up the question- When cores 3&5 are running that hot, what is the temp reading on the other cores? You might try another app to verify that the reporting is accurate. I run Core Temp in my system tray all the time but if I see something out of the ordinary I fire up HWMonitor to get a better picture of what is going on.

I do agree with you about the i9. In hindsight, for my use I also should have stuck with an i7 or even an i5. Mine is only a i9-10900 and I do not have the ability to underclock it if I needed to. Luckily, I do not do anything that kicks in hyperthreading.

Ghot said:

@Flashorn

You CAN put Win 11 on the GT73 if you want, and you can probably turn the speed on the GE76 down, if you want.

Let's install Windows 11 on incompatible hardware

Inspired on this thread: Let's run Win10 on really really old hardware - Windows 10 Help Forums Most of our machines are unsupported on Windows 11, why not force it? --------- Run Windows 11 on unsupported machines --------- 1. How to Bypass Windows 11's TPM, CPU and RAM Requirements 2...

www.elevenforum.com

The CPU speed is governed by the bus speed (frequency), and the multiplier.
You shouldn't mess with the bus speed. The multiplier is probably set to Auto.
There are probably 1-3 other settings that determine where the multiplier sits, both at low speed and at boost speed.

Unfortunately, overclocking or de-overclocking is not very easy on a laptop.
You should probably just leave things as they are and watch for a newer (non-beta) BIOS.

There MAY be a general overclock setting, that you can adjust.
Something like... normal, fast, faster... etc. Or maybe OC setting 1, 2, 3, etc.
It's hard to tell without the BIOS manual or actually seeing the BIOS settings.

Click to expand...

Hey Ghot!

Thanks for your time.

I know how to install Windows 11 on my older GT73 but, it's a backup and W10 is up to date on it. I have also read and seen from youtube videos
that this might imply updates that don't or won't install so, for now it'll stay on W10 but, thanks for the info.
I have also installed W10 on an HP which is still lurking around in my computer room. I bought it in 2008 with a Core2Duo. Wow how old I feel now. It is Painstakingly slow. but, once it gets running well , it's still pretty good and updates as well.

This is one thing I hate about MSI. They don't tell you or specify what the updated BIOS is about or for. Asus used to give you a rundown of the update on their site. Don't know if they still do but, That was a plus for us.

As for the tweaking of the CPU well, this is only a year and a bit old and my main gaming rig (sorry, notebook) and really don't like to mess with
newer hardware unless I'm really sure I know what I'm doing. Yes, I can take them apart and put them back together again but, for now, I think this will have to do.

Thanks again for your time .

Flashorn said:

Geez, you guys and gals have weird names

Click to expand...

That's because there's a bunch of weird people lurking here

My XPS 15 laptop, specs below, was ordered with an 11th gen i9 and the fan seldom comes on and if it does its so quiet I can't hear it. I do push it at times, chart trading in real-time with the NY stock exchange using Interactive Brokers Trader Workstation. I also push it with Photoshop and Lightroom. I plan to order my next XPS 15 laptop with an i9 again as I've been very pleased with this one.

glasskuter said:

That bring up the question- When cores 3&5 are running that hot, what is the temp reading on the other cores? You might try another app to verify that the reporting is accurate. I run Core Temp in my system tray all the time but if I see something out of the ordinary I fire up HWMonitor to get a better picture of what is going on.

Click to expand...

Hey Glasskuter!

Nice to hear from a classmate.

I'll take a reading next time I wind up Sniper Elite 4 & 5 to see what happens and post the results here.
From what I have gleaned so far, all other cores are in line with the 80*C ish temps. The efficiency cores
are all well in the 60*C ish temps. As I said before, the MSI Center only reports temps in the 80*C ish
and the GPU is well under that. In the 70*C's if I recall. The case on CPU side gets Hot but not on the GPU
side even when pushed to the Ultra settings in games. The fans are working properly and no dust is seen
when I opened the back. When I push the Boost key for the fans (yes, they are loud) they will wind up to about
58-5900 RPM. Lots of air going out and in from the vents. The notebook is on a 15-20 degree lift from the back
to let all the air flow as well as possible. As far as I can tell, nothing else is affected by the heat this thing generates
Here is a reading just now from Core-Temp: as you can see, the middle cores are hot but, the rest are very acceptable.

glasskuter said:

I would be more concerned at the cores running at 100% than the marginal increase in clock.

Click to expand...

I was not really worried about the increase in clock boost. It's just that I couldn't find any info or reviews from any reliable
sources on a notebook speced out like this one. I have seen lots with with a 2.5MHz CPU but, none with a 2.9MHz CPU
reviewed which lends me to believe that this might be a one of kind slip or mistake.

In any case, we will see if this notebook lasts as long as the GT73 that is still going strong after all that it's gone through.

Thanks for time and concern Glasskuter.

TraderGary said:

I plan to order my next XPS 15 laptop with an i9 again as I've been very pleased with this one.

Click to expand...

Hey TraderGary!

I would do quite a bit of research before buying another i9 as the CPU itself has changed quite bit in format.
Faster , yes but, also the Cores have had major changes from simply being performance cores to this generation
of power & efficiency Cores. Like I said, a bit of research goes a long way in this day and age. So much to choose
from and at times very little info. I would not go back to an i9 even for gaming. Not because of my experience with
this one but, simply because I really don't see the need for one. IF I was doing AutoCAD work then, I would seriously
think about it but, for what you have mentioned, an i7 would do the job well.

Thanks for your input and thoughts Gary.

If you're up for a little reading in your spare time, this article goes into more detail about it. I'm not a hardware expert by any means, but everything in the article makes sense. I was thinking about the thermal paste before I read what this guy says. Even though the laptop is new, there is a good possibility reapplying a good quality thermal paste could make a big difference. I have seen many OEM systems where the factory did a shoddy job on applying the paste leaving the bulk of the cpu bare even after the heatsink pressure should have spread it. Just a thought. Grab you a tube of Thermal Grizzly Kryonaut Thermal Paste to have on hand the next time you have the laptop open.

​

glasskuter said:

Grizzly Kryonaut Thermal Paste

Click to expand...

Advocat?

Haven't heard of this one so , I'll check it out.

Do you realize how much work I'll have to do to "re" the paste on this notebook.
Just kidding but yes, that might just be the trick to be cool again
Kidding aside, the cooling on this thing is all over the back. It will be a challenge.
take a look:

I'll read the info but, can't promise I will do the work LOL!
Another little tid bit of info. This has Intel Grafix which I tried out.
What a piece. I have an aquarium app which I sometimes use as a
screensaver when I am called away for whatever reason. This is not
what I would call a graphic module. Tearing the screen like I have never seen it before.
This is what I use:

Thanks again Glasskuter.

glasskuter said:

That's because there's a bunch of weird people lurking here

Click to expand...

Naw, all of you guys , gals are just amazing people giving your time for free
and helping so many in need. Wish the world would be as well.
That goes for Shawn as well

Flashorn said:

Hey TraderGary!

I would do quite a bit of research before buying another i9 as the CPU itself has changed quite bit in format.
Faster , yes but, also the Cores have had major changes from simply being performance cores to this generation
of power & efficiency Cores. Like I said, a bit of research goes a long way in this day and age. So much to choose
from and at times very little info. I would not go back to an i9 even for gaming. Not because of my experience with
this one but, simply because I really don't see the need for one. IF I was doing AutoCAD work then, I would seriously
think about it but, for what you have mentioned, an i7 would do the job well.

Thanks for your input and thoughts Gary.

Click to expand...

Your comment is appreciated! I've got another year on my extended warranty and I'll certainly be reading the reviews on the differences between i7 and i9 when I'm ready to upgrade again. I've had several Dell XPS 15's and I've liked them a lot. I've especially liked the quality of the OLED screen on this one and going forward OLED will be a requirement for me.

If all Cores of a group of Cores are beyond 85 degree under load at same time and for some time (not just peak), then you should look closer to the cooling system.
If 1 Core just has a peak over 85 it is not a problem to concern about
Also, at idle the cores at around 45 degree is fine.

You may want to also try app HWMonitor from CPUID and check Temp´s and Core / Bus speed´s

"

if it ain't broke, don't fix it"​