Why Has No One Mentioned The Prospect Of Dumping Millions Of Incompatible Machines ?

Edwin said:

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LOL

Wynona said:

With all due respect, Microsoft is not condemning millions of devices . . .

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With all due respect to you, ma'am, it's a passive move in that direction. I see electronics in the garbage CONSTANTLY. I see computers on the curbside getting thrown in the trucks with other trash often enough around here. I don't care what any law says, in this context, I know what I see. It's not up for arguments. :)

I blame the people who act upon what Microsoft decreed viz Windows 11. And again, I find it sourly amusing that a corporation donating to the Nature Conservancy is passively enabling the potential for electronics in landfills to increase exponentially.

I don't like to argue with you folks. And actually, there's no argument from my perspective. It would be a shame to dissolve everything into shilling for this or that or using an innocuous post as an excuse to gang up on or lash out at someone for some reason. Have a great evening, everyone. Dispose of your waste responsibly, if you can.

CountMike said:

Oh, I would love to have Model T.

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My grandfather had a Model T that he bought brand new. I have vague memories of riding in it with him. When he died my uncle sold it. I was a teenager with no money so I couldn't buy it even though I wanted it.

clam1952 said:

Linux Mint have a 32 bit fork which is relatively new, I've got it on a ancient Laptop.

There are actually 14 Linux distros still supporting 32 bit for geriatric PCs in addition to their 64 bit versions, it's far from dead yet.

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The Mint 32bit you mentioned doesn't use the Ubuntu code base and is distributed directly by Debian
Most all of the other 13 builds that you are referring to require manual networking configs (in some cases), no direct access to synaptic (in some cases) out of the box, or pre-installed codecs (in some cases).

Support for onboard graphics is another big problem with these writes.

The casual every day user would have some serious problems with these extremely slow boxes.

With 128 MB RAM and a 300MHz CPU I could go to dinner and a movie before these things even finish loading

The only caveat here to all of these builds is that none of these writes will work on any unit with a 235MHz or lower CPU, which were the CPU's being marketed even just 20 years ago ... never minding even 30 years ago ... the 64MHz 386 DX33 won't even boot the modern 32bit Linux kernel, even though it was one of the very first 32bit processors.

CountMike said:

Cool 'n Calm is fine, I suddenly became one when I retired.

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I became bored and went back to work part time. For the same place I retired from.

I have a small back room repair shop where most of my customers are fairly computer illiterate. They look to me for advise and remote assistance for just about everything and this small town is 100% Windows. Until today, I had never owned a new computer myself, always rebuilds that I tore apart and put back together many times. The newest one was a 4th generation i7 which is running Windows 11 beta just fine as a VM. I swore when MS came out with their crap rule on requirements that I wouldn't shell out bucks I couldn't afford, but I ate my own words when I came across an i9 scratch and dent system on Dell's outlet that was too good a deal to pass up. It is WAY more computer than I will ever use, but it will upgrade when the time comes. I figure it will be the last PC I'll ever own. No matter how pi$$ed off I am about MS decision, I know as consumers we can bitch and moan, but we can't fight the establishment. We either stay on Windows 10 (which I love), run an alternative OS or bite the bullet like I did. I can't service my customers if I don't know the new OS and working remotely using a VM is not ideal. Therefore, I brought out the old credit card. It's painful. But here's an afterthought...The new PC is so beautiful I've stared at it all day.

plat said:

With all due respect to you, ma'am, it's a passive move in that direction. I see electronics in the garbage CONSTANTLY. I see computers on the curbside getting thrown in the trucks with other trash often enough around here. I don't care what any law says, in this context, I know what I see. It's not up for arguments. :)

I blame the people who act upon what Microsoft decreed viz Windows 11. And again, I find it sourly amusing that a corporation donating to the Nature Conservancy is passively enabling the potential for electronics in landfills to increase exponentially.

I don't like to argue with you folks. And actually, there's no argument from my perspective. It would be a shame to dissolve everything into shilling for this or that or using an innocuous post as an excuse to gang up on or lash out at someone for some reason. Have a great evening, everyone. Dispose of your waste responsibly, if you can.

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I'm afraid that you placed blame on least "guilty" party (MS) in this case. They are software company, even their hardware is made by somebody else. Such misdirection can only hurt the cause for cleaner environment.
Windows have very good power management for instance, that takes a lot of effort in development. Producing electrical power is probably most polluting industry nowadays.
Hardware and OS go hand in hand together, one without other would not work. Might as well blame hardware manufacturers for not making hardware to suit OS and it's changes which of course wouldn't be true either.

The whole premise of the OP is wrong. Nobody is being forced to run Windows 11 or even Windows at all - You as a consumer have the ultimate choice over what equipment you buy and what you run on it. For Ms making a decent snappy safe to use and secure OS is a perfectly OK idea -- if older equipment won't run it then tough - you either run the old stuff or upgrade.

You'll be complaining next that your brand spanking new pc's can't use these as storage


You still can if you buy an old used 1970's IBM Mainframe of course !!!!!!

As one who still loves cycling - modern light e-bikes are a zillion ways easier and safer to use even for elderly relatively unfit people than bikes made even 30 years ago. Modern gear does not always mean though older gear has to be trashed - but when its time is up - then dispose of sensibly of course.

Cheers
jimbo

Fact of the matter is, the whole of society has become obsessive gadget pigs!
There's simply too much sh*t for sale out there!
And, the environment is going to suffer for it!

Why millions of devices become useless?
millions of xp or Win7 users's devices become useless just for you think like that
or a operation systems becomes useless unless it receive updates? so you operate with updates only?

kylprq said:

Why millions of devices become useless?
millions of xp or Win7 users's devices become useless just for you think like that
or a operation systems becomes useless unless it receive updates? so you operate with updates only?

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Hi there
I'm still running some legacy hardware on an XP system which hasn't had updates for years -- and if its a stand alone system why shouldn't people run it safely. (Or other old OS'es too).

Probably around 40 - 50% or maybe even more people who currently own any sort of PC (laptop, desktop) don't really need them at all -

OK I wouldn't be able to stream 8K UHD video on it - but so what -- there's other options if I need to do that.

Looking at Office 2007 and Office 2010 - is there really anything (possibly apart from Teams / ZOOM) that the newer releases (office 2019/ 365) that the average Office user needs that doesn't exist in these earlier versions -- I'm a big power user of EXCEL and additions to things like PIVOT TABLE handling etc make the upgrade worth while for me but I'd bet around 95% of EXCEL users would probabaly still think a PIVOT TABLE is a table loaded with food that could easily be turned around corners in a small room !!.

As for security -- individuals are much more likely to get scammed - so a bit of common sense here --I doubt also if any serious hacker is going to try and get into my bank account and remove the last odd 100 EUR in there !!!!!.

I like new tech - but just buying it "for the sake of it" - no thanks - not necessary !!!!! I'll buy when it offers significant improvement (both application and hardware wise) to what I already have.

Cheers
jimbo

I wouldn't drive an unsafe Ferrari either (I can't fix Ferraris) so yes, I would junk the Ferrari.

Apart from recyclers of electronics, I never found any takers for the 'Ferrari'. I obviously didn't ask the right people, but a couple of them became indignant Want any of my Ferraris? 2 available right now along with an assortment of PCI cards, etc.

Haydon said:

I wouldn't drive an unsafe Ferrari either (I can't fix Ferraris) so yes, I would junk the Ferrari.

Apart from recyclers of electronics, I never found any takers for the 'Ferrari'. I obviously didn't ask the right people, but a couple of them became indignant Want any of my Ferraris? 2 available right now along with an assortment of PCI cards, etc.

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Send them here please -- I've fixed cessna planes, motor-cycles, electronics etc so a "simple mere Ferrari" would be easy !!!!!!

Cheers
jimbo

Winuser said:

Why don't we complain about flat screen tv's. I work in public works and you would be amazed at the number of working cathode-ray tube TV's we get. Why did they get replaced? The people wanted big screen high def tv's. And to this day we still get a large number of old computers that came with Windows XP installed

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CountMike said:

I'm afraid that you placed blame on least "guilty" party (MS) in this case. They are software company, even their hardware is made by somebody else. Such misdirection can only hurt the cause for cleaner environment.
Windows have very good power management for instance, that takes a lot of effort in development. Producing electrical power is probably most polluting industry nowadays.
Hardware and OS go hand in hand together, one without other would not work. Might as well blame hardware manufacturers for not making hardware to suit OS and it's changes which of course wouldn't be true either.

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Thank you, Count. Y'know, when it all boils down, if the OP wants to place blame, I'm pretty sure Progress is the guilty party.

If it weren't for Progress, we'd still be using "ice boxes"; the ice man delivers a huge block of ice to be put into the top shelf of the ice box. Then someone came up with a refrigerator that could be plugged in and keep food cold. Oh! they shouldn't orta done that! Look at all the ice boxes that were inevitably discarded! Shame on Progress!

If it weren't for Progress, we'd still be using a "wash pot" and "wash tub" to keep our clothes clean. A "wash pot" was set up outside and heated with a wood fire. A "wash tub" was set up for rinsing. Then someone came up with a washing machine that had a "ringer" to squeeze the water out of the clothes that were hung on a line to dry. Later, someone came up with an automatic washing machine; not long after, an automatic clothes dryer appeared. Oh! they shouldn't orta done that! Look at all the old washing machines that were inevitably discarded! Shame on Progress!

Back in those times, we didn't know so much about pollution, but time marches on, and we now have the Recycle and Re-use, movement along with the newer Upcycle movement. Which, BTW, in his efforts to blame Microsoft for filling up the landfills, the OP dismissed out of hand.

Wynona said:

Thank you, Count. Y'know, when it all boils down, if the OP wants to place blame, I'm pretty sure Progress is the guilty party. :)

If it weren't for Progress, we'd still be using "ice boxes"; the ice man delivers a huge block of ice to be put into the top shelf of the ice box. Then someone came up with a refrigerator that could be plugged in and keep food cold. Oh! they shouldn't orta done that! Look at all the ice boxes that were inevitably discarded! Shame on Progress!

If it weren't for Progress, we'd still be using a "wash pot" and "wash tub" to keep our clothes clean. A "wash pot" was set up outside and heated with a wood fire. A "wash tub" was set up for rinsing. Then someone came up with a washing machine that had a "ringer" to squeeze the water out of the clothes that were hung on a line to dry. Later, someone came up with an automatic washing machine; not long after, an automatic clothes dryer appeared. Oh! they shouldn't orta done that! Look at all the old washing machines that were inevitably discarded! Shame on Progress!

Back in those times, we didn't know so much about pollution, but time marches on, and we now have the Recycle and Re-use, movement along with the newer Upcycle movement. Which, BTW, in his efforts to blame Microsoft for filling up the landfills, the OP dismissed out of hand.

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@Wynona

Cathode Ray tubes were great to get rid of -- loads of X-Rays -- not particularly benign to "Humans" - especially pregnant women, loads of other nasty heavy metals and a lot of old Glassware made with more lead - a substance even the most agnostic of "Climate Change" people would agree is best left totally for Nuclear fission screening etc !!!!

If you have to chuck things old CRT's are one of the best to get rid of !!!

Modern LCD's use a lot of "Rare Eaths" -- rather misnamed as they aren't "Earth's" at all and aren't particularly rare in the scheme of things. They use a lot less power as well (electricity generation is still a big polluter) - so if you want to attack waste then not wanting to dump old CRT's I'm afraid is going down the wrong alley.

Hint "never get into "Environmental issues with Icelanders !!!!" You'll for sure always lose big time !!!!

Cheers
jimbo

jimbo45 said:

@Wynona

Cathode Ray tubes were great to get rid of -- loads of X-Rays -- not particularly benign to "Humans" - especially pregnant women, loads of other nasty heavy metals and a lot of old Glassware made with more lead - a substance even the most agnostic of "Climate Change" people would agree is best left totally for Nuclear fission screening etc !!!!

If you have to chuck things old CRT's are one of the best to get rid of !!!

Modern LCD's use a lot of "Rare Eaths" -- rather misnamed as they aren't "Earth's" at all and aren't particularly rare in the scheme of things. They use a lot less power as well (electricity generation is still a big polluter) - so if you want to attack waste then not wanting to dump old CRT's I'm afraid is going down the wrong alley.

Hint "never get into "Environmental issues with Icelanders !!!!" You'll for sure always lose big time !!!!

Cheers
jimbo

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Y'know, I have an "egg" created from the glass in an old CRT. Probably around 20 years old. It's a pretty aquamarine and white swirl.

I think I gave my old CRT monitor to someone who needed a larger one. Or maybe it was on a system I gave to someone who didn't have one.

Wynona said:

Y'know, I have an "egg" created from the glass in an old CRT. Probably around 20 years old. It's a pretty aquamarine and white swirl.

I think I gave my old CRT monitor to someone who needed a larger one. Or maybe it was on a system I gave to someone who didn't have one.

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Hi folks

@Wynona

"Chernobyl -- The Gift that keeps on Giving" !!

Modern Wind farms now using better magnets -- the most expensive operation of Wind farms was repairing the turbo motors -- older magnets had to drive via complex gearing the rotors quite fast to generate electricity so they often broke and had to be replaced frequently.

Using modern Rare earths - the strongest natural magnet known -- neodymium - means that you don't need gears and the rotor turns very much more slowly still producing sufficient power which allows wind generation to take place even when wind drops to almost nothing and maintenance is reduced by 90%.

"Here Endeth the 1st lesson " !!!!!


(Remember Icelanders on "Eco electricity / other environmental issues etc !!!!").

Enjoy !!!

Cheers
jimbo

Edwin said:

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Is that salt free popcorn - I have bp issues -

24c said:

Is that salt free popcorn - I have bp issues -

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Hi there

@24c

Maybe my English has got off track here but isn't BP some sort of big oil company -- British Petroleum I think -- but I think even some of those are being forced to "Go Greener" decently without sending everybody back into world wide poverty.

However I think we should get back on topic as there's loads of other forums to discuss climate change and other environmental issues.

Cheers
jimbo

24c said:

Is that salt free popcorn - I have bp issues -

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Mine is salt free from my air popper. I also have a popper I can use with oil and seasonings. I have BP issues too.