Solved Outlook (Office 2021): emails spontaneously disappear from inbox

zinc · Jul 18, 2022

1) This AM I noticed ALL my Inbox emails older than 2 weeks were gone (not in Trash), just gone (note: emails in various folders still there).

2) Then I watched in horror as the remaining emails (w/n 2 weeks old) spontaneously evaporated.

Not 365 but Office 2021 edition w/Outlook
IMAP server

I know this sounds strange but it really happened. Any thoughts or suggestions?

Dru2 · Jul 18, 2022

Check the server for the email account that it isn't full, especially if you're using a POP Email account.

idgat · Jul 18, 2022

Email accounts - domain based (like @domainname.com) or web based (like @gmail.com) ?

And, as above @Dru2, access your mailbox(es) by the web site(s) to see if the mail is still on the email server(s)

Type of account(s) - POP, IMAP ?

zinc · Jul 18, 2022

Well, it's an ugly, ugly, puzzle. But since y'all asked, here goes: I have 4 devices that can access same email account;

1) web based (my ISP) (never used till today), total space just 10% of capacity.
2) VISTA PC - old Windows Mail (POP, used exclusively up till a month ago).
3) an iPhone (POP, hardly used mail much over past 10 years, but when I did I just deleted it since it always shows up on the Vista PC).
4) Microsoft Outlook (as a part of Office 2021) on new PC which I have been relying on the past month (IMAP). Where all the problems happened.

1) Web client has an empty inbox (just like Outlook). Odd, but emails still in all the folders on the web client (folders I never created) but did on Vista Mail client & Outlook.
2) NOTHING vanished from the inbox of the Vista POP MS Mail program on old PC.
3) iPhone has been acting very strange since adding Outlook => sending me hundreds of emails several days in a row, some up to 10 years old, that are already in my Vista Mail (lots of sent items, going back 10 years old).
4) Win 11 Pro Outlook (MS Office 2021) - disappearing emails (hundreds) from inbox only (that had already been read).

A Question: If emails are 'retrieved' from my ISP server to Outlook don't those emails physically now exist on my hard drive somewhere? Sitting in my inbox (which apparently makes them vulnerable to disappear). So there's no way a downloaded (retrieved) email can just vanish, right?

Dru2 · Jul 18, 2022

idgat said:
Email accounts - domain based (like @domainname.com) or web based (like @gmail.com) ?

And, as above @Dru2, access your mailbox(es) by the web site(s) to see if the mail is still on the email server(s)

Type of account(s) - POP, SMTP ?

I think your post is meant for the OP. And the questions you asked it what I stated.

And BTW, it's either POP or IMAP, NOT SMTP. And a full mailbox is more likely to be from a POP account than IMAP, since IMAP accounts are sync'd... i.e. if you delete mail from your local inbox, the mail on the server will also be deleted. That said, it's not impossible for an IMAP account box to be full too, especially if there are sync issues. So, check either way.

And yes, if the email account is joe.blow.com, then the server would be blow.com. They would then need to provide their credentials to enter the site and view their mail and mail settings. Also make sure the in-box isn't full.

All that said, no guarantee this will solve the issue, but it's a start; and if it isn't, you know that box has been checked.

idgat · Jul 18, 2022

Setting up multipe devices to access the one/same email account can be a nightmare, simply because of the settings of that device and the software. Apple version of Outlook -vs- Windows version of Outlook a classic example in question.

There is no black-and-white about how email clients will work. Every program has its advantages/disadvantages.

POP accounts download the email from the server on to the device, then delete the email from the server. However there may be an option in the software setup to keep a copy of the email on the server. However, with many (most) ISPs the space they keep for POP email "copies" is usually limited, and there is usually a retention period before the server copy is deleted.

IMAP downloads (a link to) the email to the computer, and the email is kept on the server. Again, a setting on the software can be made to download a copy of the email to the software/device.

Problem is, with POP accounts on a device, if that device gets to the email server before the other POP or IMAP devices, the email's then gone (downloaded and deleted). With POP on multiple devices, it's first-in-best-served (unless the option to leave a copy on the server is activated).

Your best guide to start with - what's on the email server ? Don't use any program/software, access the email mailbox through the web post office portal of your ISP.

Side Note : I loathe, hate, detest MS Outlook, simply because of its smart-4rse attempt to be "helpful" in the installation > setup process by totally taking over what MS "thinks" how every single user wants the program to work. To the unsuspecting user, "Oooh, goody, it's working", but not knowing what settings have been applied, by which time it's connected to the 'net and started attacking the users email server. There's even less control now that many versions require an internet connection and an MS account before it'll even work. At least in earlier versions (200x - 2013) which didn't require an MS account or internet connection to install, I could disconnect the internet before installation. Then when it attempted default settings setup and auto mail retrieval, I could intervene and manually impose MY requirements and settings.

Anyway, here's me bus, I'll grab me soapbox and be off

Dru2 · Jul 18, 2022

zinc said:
Well, it's an ugly, ugly, puzzle. But since y'all asked, here goes: I have 4 devices that can access same email account;

1) web based (my ISP) (never used till today), total space just 10% of capacity.
2) VISTA PC - old Windows Mail (POP, used exclusively up till a month ago).
3) an iPhone (POP, hardly used mail much over past 10 years, but when I did I just deleted it since it always shows up on the Vista PC).
4) Microsoft Outlook (as a part of Office 2021) on new PC which I have been relying on the past month (IMAP). Where all the problems happened.

Your post has several areas which makes it hard to follow. I suggest you stick to the problem account, and not worry about the others just yet.

That said, if you're getting hundreds of emails that you previously got....

zinc said:
3) iPhone has been acting very strange since adding Outlook => sending me hundreds of emails several days in a row, some up to 10 years old, that are already in my Vista Mail (lots of sent items, going back 10 years old).

That indicates there are emails still on the server that needs to be dealt with... deleted. That means you need to look at that account online (not from the phone) and see what's in the in-box there and start deleting or archiving.

Also, whether you used an account or not, does not mean it isn't getting emails (maybe junk mail) so yeah... check those servers. And if you don't need the account(s) close them. Additionally, usually the ISP will send you a notification your in-box is full, and they will start deleting stuff if you take no action.

zinc said:
4) Microsoft Outlook (as a part of Office 2021) on new PC which I have been relying on the past month (IMAP). Where all the problems happened.

See my post above...

And a full mailbox is more likely to be from a POP account than IMAP, since IMAP accounts are sync'd... i.e. if you delete mail from your local inbox, the mail on the server will also be deleted. That said, it's not impossible for an IMAP account box to be full too, especially if there are sync issues. So, check either way.

idgat · Jul 18, 2022

Dru2 said:
And BTW, it's either POP or IMAP, NOT SMTP.

Doh! edited and corrected. Tks.

idgat · Jul 18, 2022

Dru2 said:
I suggest you stick to the problem account, and not worry about the others just yet.

I (mis?)read that explanation as one account access set up on multiple devices ?

Needs clarifying.

Dru2 · Jul 18, 2022

@idgat, with all due respect you're not helping but only confusing the issue - example POP vs. SMTP?? No it's POP vs. IMAP.

Additionally, your personal feeling of your detestation of Outlook doesn't help the OP solve their issue. Additionally, Outlook can and does handle (I have 4) multiple email accounts without issue. Please do not confuse the OP with incorrect or opinionated info.

Thanks.

idgat · Jul 18, 2022

Dru2 said:
@idgat, with all due respect you're not helping but only confusing the issue - example POP vs. SMTP?? No it's POP vs. IMAP.

Additionally, your personal feeling of your detestation of Outlook doesn't help the OP solve their issue. Additionally, Outlook can and does handle (I have 4) multiple email accounts without issue. Please do not confuse the OP with incorrect or opinionated info.

Thanks.

SMTP > IMAP corrected.

Personal opinion may help OP (and others) to decide the sun doesn't shine outta Outlook's porthole just because it's an MS product, and that there are other more controllable email client options.

Again, I read the OP's posts as one account on multiple installations/devices, not multiple accounts for the one email client.

Dru2 · Jul 18, 2022

I think I misunderstood this comment...

zinc said:
3) iPhone has been acting very strange since adding Outlook => sending me hundreds of emails several days in a row, some up to 10 years old, that are already in my Vista Mail (lots of sent items, going back 10 years old).

To clarify - you're saying your iPhone is sending out old emails? Or receiving old emails.

Dru2 · Jul 18, 2022

idgat said:
Personal opinion may help OP (and others) to decide the sun doesn't shine outta Outlook's porthole just because it's an MS product, and that there are other more controllable email client options.

We all have personal opinions (I don't use iPhones) but me saying that isn't helping the OP with their issue. It's just a "personal opinion" and personal opinions are just that... personal... not fact. The fact that "you" detest Outlook, doesn't take away the "fact" that millions use the app (me included) without issue. Furthermore, you have zero evidence Outlook IS the issue.

With that, I won't tie up the thread with a bunch of back and forth between you and I and will instead advise the OP to decide which posts they feel is more helpful to solving their issue.

Peace

Dru2 · Jul 18, 2022

BTW, I do have to acknowledge @idgat is correct in this...

idgat said:
POP accounts download the email from the server on to the device, then delete the email from the server. However there may be an option in the software setup to keep a copy of the email on the server. However, with many (most) ISPs the space they keep for POP email "copies" is usually limited, and there is usually a retention period before the server copy is deleted.

IMAP downloads (a link to) the email to the computer, and the email is kept on the server. Again, a setting on the software can be made to download a copy of the email to the software/device.

Problem is, with POP accounts on a device, if that device gets to the email server before the other POP or IMAP devices, the email's then gone (downloaded and deleted). With POP on multiple devices, it's first-in-best-served (unless the option to leave a copy on the server is activated)

The key point about POP as he stated is to check that you have not checked the option to keep copies on the server. With that, as stated check the server that no mail is still there, or that you have not reached your limit.

BTW... What are IMAP and POP?

zinc · Jul 18, 2022

OK, apologies for not being clear previously. Here's a list of more answered/clarified questions:
TWC.com is the server.
TWC.com web server email account is currently 10% full.
Inbox on TWC.com inbox is completely empty. (Local folders in TWC inbox still have mail).
I meant iPhone is receiving emails.

In the spirit of full disclosure in a chaotic frenzy today I fiddled w/my iPhones pop email account to set to delete mail from server as soon as deleted from iPhone, (last week I changed it remove deleted messages from iPhone from 'never' to 'one day').
I assumed POP and IMAP are diff servers, so emails were segregated and one could not influence the other.
I also had no idea emails (POP or IMAP) are not actually on MY computer (thread indicates they are links).

Hope this Helps

idgat · Jul 19, 2022

zinc said:
I also had no idea emails (POP or IMAP) are not actually on MY computer (thread indicates they are links).

Hope this Helps

Not quite that absolute, depends on the email client (program) and the settings therein.

As a thought, search your computer storage for MS Outlook's *.pst files (where POP mail is stored). You might have to "unhide" the files in Windows Explorer because Microsoft doesn't like users finding them (<\\sarcasm mode OFF//>).

There's always the remotest possibility that the Inbox was corrupted and a new (empty - because email had previously been downloaded) *.pst file and a new profile (incl. Inbox, albeit empty) was created. If there are multiple .pst files, one of the "older" ones might contain all your emails. Mail can be recovered (imported) from *.pst files, it can't from *.ost files (IMAP format)

POP and IMAP aren't (different) classifications of email types, just the way email is delivered to you

Dru2 · Jul 19, 2022

First and foremost (again, to be clear)... what email app? What version (365, 2019, 2021)? Desktop or phone app?

zinc said:
TWC.com is the server.
TWC.com web server email account is currently 10% full.
Inbox on TWC.com inbox is completely empty. (Local folders in TWC inbox still have mail).

To clarify, are TWC.com and TWC.com web server the same. Sorry, just need to be sure.

Also, you say... "TWC.com web server email account is currently 10% full." and... Inbox on TWC.com inbox is completely empty. (Local folders in TWC inbox still have mail). Am I to assume the server side of the "inbox" is empty, while the local folders file on the client (your PC) is has mail in it? If so, is this account using IMAP or POP? If POP, do you have "leave copies on the server" option checked either on server or client side?

zinc said:
I meant iPhone is receiving emails.

Do you know where those emails are coming from? It is the same TWC.com account?

And since you say "TWC.com web server email account is currently 10% full". Are you sure the iPhone isn't receiving the emails that are still on the server? Again, where are those emails coming from?

Also, is the email account on the iPhone POP or IMAP?

zinc said:
I assumed POP and IMAP are diff servers, so emails were segregated and one could not influence the other.

Whie it was (is?) possible to have an account with both POP and IMAP, this can cause issues and thus most email clients will have you choose one or the other when setting up an account. Additionally, most ISP providers will require you use one or the other per their setup instructions to insure the account functions properly per protocol.

That said, and given your issues, I'd also suggest you check with your email provider to insure you're using the correct settings per the account, as this "could" also be why you're having issues.

zinc said:
I also had no idea emails (POP or IMAP) are not actually on MY computer (thread indicates they are links).

The best way to explain IMAP emails is this...

When you read an email message using IMAP, you aren't actually downloading or storing it on your computer; instead, you're reading it from the email service. As a result, you can check your email from different devices, anywhere in the world: your phone, a computer, a friend's computer.

IMAP only downloads a message when you click on it, and attachments aren't automatically downloaded. This way you're able to check your messages a lot more quickly than POP.

With IMAP when you open your email client the e-mail is there for you to read. But it won't actually download from the server until you click on it. It's the clicking and opening of the email that downloads it from the server. As noted, the reason for this is so you may see the email from elsewhere on the net.

POP emails actually need to be downloaded to your PC before you can read them. Once downloaded, they are no longer available to be seen on the server (unless you enable to option to keep a copy on the server.

In the end, the main difference between POP and IMAP is POP mail needs to be downloaded to be read, whereas IMAP doesn't. This is turn allows IMAP to be seen from any device using that email account. It also allows email to be sync'd to other devices - you can open many devices with that same email account and see those emails (as long as they aren't deleted from the server).

Hope this clarifies/helps :)

zinc · Jul 19, 2022

Dru2 said:
With IMAP when you open your email client the e-mail is there for you to read. But it won't actually download from the server until you click on it. It's the clicking and opening of the email that downloads it from the server. As noted, the reason for this is so you may see the email from elsewhere on the net.

POP emails actually need to be downloaded to your PC before you can read them. Once downloaded, they are no longer available to be seen on the server (unless you enable to option to keep a copy on the server.

In the end, the main difference between POP and IMAP is POP mail needs to be downloaded to be read, whereas IMAP doesn't. This is turn allows IMAP to be seen from any device using that email account. It also allows email to be sync'd to other devices - you can open many devices with that same email account and see those emails (as long as they aren't deleted from the server).

Hope this clarifies/helps :)

Yes it helps a lot, thank you. I had it all wrong in my mind how this all works.

Dru2 said:
First and foremost (again, to be clear)... what email app? What version (365, 2019, 2021)? Desktop or phone app?

1) My "webmail" is actually webmail.spectrum.net (not TWC as I said)
2) Windows Mail on Vista PC (old PC) and is POP
3) Outlook as part of MS Office 2021 on new Win 11 Pro (new PC) is IMAP
4) iPhone mail app (is POP)

Dru2 said:
Also, you say... "TWC.com web server email account is currently 10% full." and... Inbox on TWC.com inbox is completely empty. (Local folders in TWC inbox still have mail). Am I to assume the server side of the "inbox" is empty, while the local folders file on the client (your PC) is has mail in it? If so, is this account using IMAP or POP? If POP, do you have "leave copies on the server" option checked either on server or client side?

My webmail, webmail.spectrum.net is ~10% full. Its inbox is empty, but there are local folders I created (in Outlook) - I move emails from the Outlook inbox to specific folders in Outlook (I never realized creating local folders in Outlook would also create the same local folders the webmail). Webmail has the option checked to move deleted items to trash (as opposed to permanent delete). No mention of keep a copy on server in webmail. Spectrum says they do not keep copies of emails that have been retrieved by clients. Nothing mentioning leave copies in Outlook (that I see).

Dru2 said:
Whie it was (is?) possible to have an account with both POP and IMAP, this can cause issues and thus most email clients will have you choose one or the other when setting up an account. Additionally, most ISP providers will require you use one or the other per their setup instructions to insure the account functions properly per protocol.

That said, and given your issues, I'd also suggest you check with your email provider to insure you're using the correct settings per the account, as this "could" also be why you're having issues.

I'm learning, first hand, the misery of mixing POP & IMAP. At least w/a little knowledge now I can at least cope & implement a plan of what to do and NOT to do.
Spectrum refuses to do anything but point to their web page showing IMAP settings. They no longer will discuss POP settings, and REFUSE to talk email clients at all.

Some observation s from my experiments:
1) Webmail & IMAP (Outlook) "monkey see monkey do" each other. Read an email (or mark it read) in Outlook & the webmail marks it read, and vice versa.
2) Delete an email on the webmail (goes to trash) and same email in my Outlook inbox gets deleted (gets moved to trash), and vice versa. This applies to ALL emails, read, unread, and double-clicked ('downloaded?').
3) The emails in the webmail inbox remain there even if I send/receive in Outlook to 'retrieve them' to my Outlook inbox.
3) The horror: when I have unread, read, or even 'double-clicked' emails in both the webmail inbox and Outlook inbox, as soon as I open and send/receive the Vista Win Mail POP client the emails appear in the POP client inbox. AND at the same time DISAPPEAR from the inboxes of both webmail & Outlook. I does Not matter whether they are unread, read, or 'double clicked' - they are just gone. (I guess that's part of the IMAP & POP not playing nice w/each other.

I'm slowly learning, from you wise folks here. It's painful. It's maddening. But I guess I'm learning how things work and what Not to do.

OK I dug into the Vista Win Mail POP client and saw two things that may have an impact:

1) pop-server properties, General: "Include this account when receiving mail or synchronizing" is CHECKED.
2) pop-server properties, Advanced: "Leave a copy of messages on server" is UNCHECKED.

What are your recommendations? (I don't get the 1st, and kinda feel checking the 2nd would solve my disappearing IMAP emails). How embarrassing.

zinc · Jul 19, 2022

idgat said:
POP accounts download the email from the server on to the device, then delete the email from the server. However there may be an option in the software setup to keep a copy of the email on the server. However, with many (most) ISPs the space they keep for POP email "copies" is usually limited, and there is usually a retention period before the server copy is deleted.

IMAP downloads (a link to) the email to the computer, and the email is kept on the server. Again, a setting on the software can be made to download a copy of the email to the software/device.

Problem is, with POP accounts on a device, if that device gets to the email server before the other POP or IMAP devices, the email's then gone (downloaded and deleted). With POP on multiple devices, it's first-in-best-served (unless the option to leave a copy on the server is activated).

Yup, I am very slowly starting to have the advice y'all gave me sink in. Better late than never I guess.

idgat said:
As a thought, search your computer storage for MS Outlook's *.pst files (where POP mail is stored). You might have to "unhide" the files in Windows Explorer because Microsoft doesn't like users finding them (<\\sarcasm mode OFF//>).

There's always the remotest possibility that the Inbox was corrupted and a new (empty - because email had previously been downloaded) *.pst file and a new profile (incl. Inbox, albeit empty) was created. If there are multiple .pst files, one of the "older" ones might contain all your emails. Mail can be recovered (imported) from *.pst files, it can't from *.ost files (IMAP format)

I can only find the .ost file it's >400 MB. (I unhid files in that folder but no .pst)