Second installation of Windows 11 via Virtual Box 7 (as release version )

Tweakfiend · Jun 13, 2023

Hi

Im sure this has been touched on b4, but just checking ...

I have installed the Release Canary version of Win 11 on VirtualBox 7 , but cannot enable all features, as I could not register this version, having already registered Windows 11 Pro as my main Host version.

Any workround ?

OAT · Jun 13, 2023

Tweakfiend said:
Hi

Im sure this has been touched on b4, but just checking ...

I have installed the Release Canary version of Win 11 on VirtualBox 7 , but cannot enable all features, as I could not register this version, having already registered Windows 11 Pro as my main Host version.

Any workround ?

No, at least not legally.
A VM is considered to be another system, therefore another license is needed.

pparks1 · Jun 13, 2023

You have a couple of options
#1). Buy another license (i'm guessing you don't want to do that).

#2). Instead of running your canary build as a vm, instead consider running it as a native boot .vhdx file on your hard drive. This is more or less a dual boot, so if you wanted to be able to run both your primary machine and your Canary build VM at the same time, this would not work. However, from a licensing standpoint, it's running on the exact same machine, so it will activate just fine.

Here are the steps for #2 if you decide to go that route. Obviously, you don't have to use D:\ for anything, that is just where I put mine on my machine.

mkdir D:\win11-vhdx

Open Disk Management
Action > Create VHD, ensure you do a VHDX file;. I put mine in D:\win11-vhdx
I created a 100GB fixed disk
Right click on this new disk and initialize as GPT, and give it a drive letter ( I used drive F)

Mount Windows 11 iso (I used drive g)
Open cmd as admin
G:
cd sources
dism /Get-WimInfo /WimFile:G:\sources\install.wim (Get index of version you wish to install, I'm installing Windows 11 Pro which is index 6)
dism /Apply-Image /ImageFile:G:\sources\install.wim /index:6 /ApplyDir:F:\

Make a boot entry for Windows
bcdboot F:\Windows /d (the /d says to leave your current default boot entry intact, so it will still boot to the native windows install on your machine)

Bree · Jun 13, 2023

Tweakfiend said:
Hi

Im sure this has been touched on b4, but just checking ...

I have installed the Release Canary version of Win 11 on VirtualBox 7 , but cannot enable all features, as I could not register this version, having already registered Windows 11 Pro as my main Host version.

Any workround ?

Another vote for runing it as a native boot vhdx. My 'System Four' (My Computers > Other Info) is currently triple booting Win10 and native vhdx installs of Insider Beta and Dev builds. Because they all run on the same hardware they activate from the PC's existing digital licence.

Tweakfiend · Jun 14, 2023

Bree said:
Another vote for runing it as a native boot vhdx. My 'System Four' (My Computers > Other Info) is currently triple booting Win10 and native vhdx installs of Insider Beta and Dev builds. Because they all run on the same hardware they activate from the PC's existing digital licence.

Thanks All

Thats something to think about

jimbo45 · Jun 14, 2023

Sometimes as well -if you IMAGE the real machine and restore to the "Virtual image" the windows will stay active -- depends on your virtual hardware though. Works best on HYPER-V as a host for the VM or KVM/QEMU as a Linux host for the VM's. Both these virtualisation systems can use a lot of the "Windows native" hardware rather than a lot of paravirtualisation which windows then doesn't see as a significant hardware change - especially if the VM is on the same physical machine.

Note also if copying / moving VM's around copy the UUID from the VM's config file as a new VM will generate a new UUID and windows will probably regard that as a new instance. If using VMWare at ist boot of a moved or copied VM then click the "I moved it" button rather than the "I copied it button".

Note also that using vhdx files is great for multi-boot -- and will retain activation - an advantage of VM's though is that they if desired and your machine has enough "juice" - can be run concurrently.

Also with HYPER-V and KVM the user can log off (machine not re-booted of course) with the VM's still active in the background so people having access to the VM's can still use them and don't actually need an account on the Host machine either.

Virtual box and Vmware wks / player are single user entities so the VM runs in that Users windows space - so at user logoff the VM is not available.

Cheers
jimbo

Bree · Jun 14, 2023

Tweakfiend said:
Thanks All

Thats something to think about

That's something to read about too. There's a tutorial.....

Native Boot Windows 11 Virtual Hard Disk (VHDX) Tutorial

This tutorial will show you how to boot a Windows 11 VHDX file natively to dual boot with Windows 10 or Windows 11. Native Boot allows you to create a virtual hard disk (VHDX), install Windows to it, and then boot it up, either on your PC side-by-side with your existing installation, or on a...

www.elevenforum.com

cereberus · Jun 14, 2023

Tweakfiend said:
Hi

Im sure this has been touched on b4, but just checking ...

I have installed the Release Canary version of Win 11 on VirtualBox 7 , but cannot enable all features, as I could not register this version, having already registered Windows 11 Pro as my main Host version.

Any workround ?

jimbo45 said:
Sometimes as well -if you IMAGE the real machine and restore to the "Virtual image" the windows will stay active -- depends on your virtual hardware though.

Cheers
jimbo

I have never seen this happen using HyperV.

jimbo45 · Jun 14, 2023

cereberus said:
I have never seen this happen using HyperV.

You need to pass thru a graphics adapter -- and set iommu / iommax (or whatever the equivalent is on more modern CPU's or AMD hardware) in the computers own BIOS. (Not the virtual BIOS.)

Also pass thru a NIC and TPM and try various CPU settings. Set disks also as "Physical disks" rather than "VM formatted one's). vhdx files work just fine. You might just get away with emulated TPM too.

Normal "paravirtualisation" will generally require another activation -- although if you still have any old W7 / W8 / W8.1 licenses around those still work but that's another issue -- also old Technet keys still work too.

On KVM it's not an issue - I regularly copy a physical VM from an external device (Wintogo type of system) to update into a VM as WintoGo systems won't update to newer builds. Message "Win 11 can't run on this device - cannot install on external device". Do the update in the VM and then copy back,

Cheers
jimbo

martyfelker · Jun 16, 2023

I could not install The Dev ISO on VirtualBox running on Manjaro {VMware doesn't work when it did previously, and I don;t think VMware Tech support is going to be able to help} But it turns out I could only run the release version. I am really tired of MS jacking around with this. Maybe VirtualBox can open a vmdk file - I don't know. I really need a new motherboard! and processor.!

cereberus · Jun 17, 2023

jimbo45 said:
You need to pass thru a graphics adapter -- and set iommu / iommax (or whatever the equivalent is on more modern CPU's or AMD hardware) in the computers own BIOS. (Not the virtual BIOS.)

Also pass thru a NIC and TPM and try various CPU settings. Set disks also as "Physical disks" rather than "VM formatted one's). vhdx files work just fine. You might just get away with emulated TPM too.

Normal "paravirtualisation" will generally require another activation -- although if you still have any old W7 / W8 / W8.1 licenses around those still work but that's another issue -- also old Technet keys still work too.

On KVM it's not an issue - I regularly copy a physical VM from an external device (Wintogo type of system) to update into a VM as WintoGo systems won't update to newer builds. Message "Win 11 can't run on this device - cannot install on external device". Do the update in the VM and then copy back,

Cheers
jimbo

Huh - I was talking about a cloned host OS activating in Hyper-V vm.

Tweakfiend · Jun 20, 2023

Hi

I am currently now using VM Workstation 17 to load both the default Insider and Canary versions within 11 Pro
Much easier to operate and with less tech issues than Virtual Box 7.

Have resolved issues such as desktop icons and wallpaper changes

pparks1 · Jun 20, 2023

Tweakfiend said:
Hi

I am currently now using VM Workstation 17 to load both the default Insider and Canary versions within 11 Pro
Much easier to operate and with less tech issues than Virtual Box 7.

Have resolved issues such as desktop icons and wallpaper changes

But it's also $149 to $199 too for a copy of VM Workstation 17. I used to have a copy provided by work and I really liked it, but couldn't justify the cost for myself later.

I'm on Hyper-V now as it'sneeded for my docker desktop stuff and wsl anyways.

cereberus · Jun 20, 2023

pparks1 said:
But it's also $149 to $199 too for a copy of VM Workstation 17. I used to have a copy provided by work and I really liked it, but couldn't justify the cost for myself later.

I'm on Hyper-V now as it'sneeded for my docker desktop stuff and wsl anyways.

Hyper-V scores handsdown if you have pro and guest VMs are Pro (+) and can be run in enhanced mode. This demonstrates Hyper-V's roots from the Windows Server market.

However, it is not so good for non Windows guest OSs (or Windows Home) as most can only run in basic mode. The most crucial disadvantage is that you cannot get sound.

Most of the other downsides of basic mode are tolerable and can be worked around to some degree.

I hope that one day Hyper-V can be developed to handle sound for basic mode guests but of course kindergarten widgets and emojis are far more important /s.

Tweakfiend · Jun 21, 2023

pparks1 said:
But it's also $149 to $199 too for a copy of VM Workstation 17. I used to have a copy provided by work and I really liked it, but couldn't justify the cost for myself later.

I'm on Hyper-V now as it'sneeded for my docker desktop stuff and wsl anyways.

Theres a FREE version for non business users on main website !

jimbo45 · Jun 22, 2023

Tweakfiend said:
Theres a FREE version for non business users on main website !

The free version is a bit fiddly VMWare player -- -- for example if you want to change the "Virtual boot Firmware" -- I.e change the "virtual boot device" you need to enter the VM's config file manually (the .vmx file) - a bit of a pain if you need to get into the VM's bios frequently.

Probably a better bet for those on Windows who need to run VM's is to see if Virtual Box is a better option. I used to use VMWare workstation - but I got it free from the workplace -- not sure if it's worth the odd 150 USD these days for domestic users.

Those running Windows from Linux Hosts can use the built in (free) and increasingly good performing KVM/QEMU system. I'd suggest that these days KVM/QEMU and HYPER-V both have very good performances these days if you can run them on your hardware. Not sure why HYPER-V still needs to mess around with "Gen 1 and Gen 2" Virtual machines. My view is that a VM is either a VM or it isn't -- there shouldn't be any "Types" -- just load up the GUEST's OS install disk and install should be the way to do it.

I suspect that as HYPER-V was essentially Back-ported from Windows server versions there may have been special reasons for the distinctions - Windows server versions can totally blow away domestic Windows in performance -- but that is what they are designed for - to be lean and mean.

Big difference in offering large commercial cloud type services and providing VDI facilities to enterprises to merely sharing a few files on a home LAN of course !!!.

As for sound - I've run a Debian bookworm release as a VM on HYPER-V on a W11 Pro Canary host and the sound seems to work just fine so the fault might be with the Guest OS rather than HYPER-V system itself. - That seems because of the limitations of "Basic mode". Of course typical servers didn't need to be bothered with sound / quality of video cards - most run in CLI mode essentially anyway and as HYPER-V was originally for servers that's probably why sound wasn't an original consideration.

Cheers
jimbo

Tweakfiend · Jun 22, 2023

jimbo45 said:
The free version is a bit fiddly VMWare player -- -- for example if you want to change the "Virtual boot Firmware" -- I.e change the "virtual boot device" you need to enter the VM's config file manually (the .vmx file) - a bit of a pain if you need to get into the VM's bios frequently.

Probably a better bet for those on Windows who need to run VM's is to see if Virtual Box is a better option. I used to use VMWare workstation - but I got it free from the workplace -- not sure if it's worth the odd 150 USD these days for domestic users.

Those running Windows from Linux Hosts can use the built in (free) and increasingly good performing KVM/QEMU system. I'd suggest that these days KVM/QEMU and HYPER-V both have very good performances these days if you can run them on your hardware. Not sure why HYPER-V still needs to mess around with "Gen 1 and Gen 2" Virtual machines. My view is that a VM is either a VM or it isn't -- there shouldn't be any "Types" -- just load up the GUEST's OS install disk and install should be the way to do it.

I suspect that as HYPER-V was essentially Back-ported from Windows server versions there may have been special reasons for the distinctions - Windows server versions can totally blow away domestic Windows in performance -- but that is what they are designed for - to be lean and mean.

Big difference in offering large commercial cloud type services and providing VDI facilities to enterprises to merely sharing a few files on a home LAN of course !!!.

As for sound - I've run a Debian bookworm release as a VM on HYPER-V on a W11 Pro Canary host and the sound seems to work just fine so the fault might be with the Guest OS rather than HYPER-V system itself. - That seems because of the limitations of "Basic mode". Of course typical servers didn't need to be bothered with sound / quality of video cards - most run in CLI mode essentially anyway and as HYPER-V was originally for servers that's probably why sound wasn't an original consideration.

View attachment 63014

Cheers
jimbo

I have used Virtual Box on & off for 10 years and IMOH, VM Workstation 17 is much easier if you use it " as is " and dont fiddle with tech aspects not required for general use.

jimbo45 · Jun 22, 2023

Tweakfiend said:
I have used Virtual Box on & off for 10 years and IMOH, VM Workstation 17 is much easier if you use it " as is " and dont fiddle with tech aspects not required for general use.

Hi there

not doubting you in the slightest -- I didn't like VBOX either but the problem is the cost of VMWare WKS is around 150 USD -- whether it's a worthwhile investment for average consumers is the question,

The Vmware player (Freebie) has limitations that I've explained -- if those are acceptable then that's fine. Note also currently the VMWare player doesn't support UEFI secure boot which could be a dog for people wanting to run W11 Guests on it. Snapshots also aren't available in vmplayer either. I find VM snapshots indespensible although how much "Joe public" would use then --no idea. I assume if you are computer literate enough to understand and use VM's this could be a bit of a show stopper.

From the VMWare site. (note one CAN trial WKS for free for 30 days though).