Solved Internal Backup Disk Drive vs Image File

Haydon · Apr 17, 2023

To restore an image file to a source machine, you need to boot your machine from a recovery disk and that has its own set of issues.

Keep your image file nonetheless, but how about restoring the image file to an internal backup disk drive and simply swap drives if disaster strikes?

How do I best implement the idea? What backup disk drive is the most benign for a restore that is done outside of the (desktop) machine housing? I am guessing an internal SATA SSD as a mature (yet still fast) technology, but I am not sure. How does the external restore setup look like? The reason I ask is that I need to experiment outside of the housing while minimizing the work to be done inside of the housing, I am not good at the latter at all

FreeBooter · Apr 17, 2023

If you can set up RAID 1 known as disk mirroring, using at least two drives that duplicate the storage of data.

Haydon · Apr 17, 2023

I don't want RAID, RAID is not a backup, I think you know that.

FreeBooter · Apr 17, 2023

Haydon said:
I don't want RAID, RAID is not a backup, I think you know that.

Raid 1 increases safety by writing the same data on two drives. Called "mirroring," RAID 1 does not increase performance. However, if one drive fails, the second drive is used, and the failed drive is manually replaced. After replacement, the RAID controller duplicates the contents of the working drive onto the new one.

Haydon · Apr 17, 2023

@FreeBooter I know what RAID 1 is, I worked with Storage Spaces which MS' version of RAID. I used Storage Spaces with 2 disks in a mirror configuration which is the equivalent of RAID 1.

I do not want RAID 1, if disaster strikes, from a bad WU or from malware, for example, both disks are affected.

You misunderstood what the issue is, read the OP carefully, thanks!

FreeBooter · Apr 17, 2023

Haydon said:
@FreeBooter I know what RAID 1 is, I worked with Storage Spaces which MS' version of RAID. I used Storage Spaces with 2 disks in a mirror configuration which is the equivalent of RAID 1.

I do not want RAID 1, if disaster strikes, from a bad WU or from malware, for example, both disks are affected.

You misunderstood what the issue is, read the OP carefully, thanks!

I understand it was just a suggestion.

Josey Wales · Apr 17, 2023

I use an external SSD to backup to, plus a second external NVME Drive.

Ghot · Apr 17, 2023

Haydon said:
To restore an image file to a source machine, you need to boot your machine from a recovery disk and that has its own set of issues.

Keep your image file nonetheless, but how about restoring the image file to an internal backup disk drive and simply swap drives if disaster strikes?

How do I best implement the idea? What backup disk drive is the most benign for a restore that is done outside of the (desktop) machine housing? I am guessing an internal SATA SSD as a mature (yet still fast) technology, but I am not sure. How does the external restore setup look like? The reason I ask is that I need to experiment outside of the housing while minimizing the work to be done inside of the housing, I am not good at the latter at all

It's hard to answer those questions. We have no idea what hardware you have.

I use two identical 2.5" SSDs. One has Win 10, the other Win11.
Because of the computer case... I can switch between those drives in under a minute (including rebooting).

As for a similar "external" solution... I'm not sure if you can boot from an external drive.

The best disaster solution I've come up with is to use images, while keeping the amount of data on the Windows partition... about 30GB. That way, backups and restores are very fast.

This is an older pic, when I still had a large game on the C:\ drive. Now, the C:\ drive has about 170GB free space.
But this is pretty much my whole system...

Haydon · Apr 17, 2023

Ghot said:
The best disaster solution I've come up with is to use images

How about regularly making a clone of the internal boot disk as regularly as you make image files ... so that you can simply substitute the boot disk ... no worries that an image won't restore.

Ghot · Apr 17, 2023

Haydon said:
How about regularly making a clone of the internal boot disk as regularly as you make image files ... so that you can simply substitute the boot disk ... no worries that an image won't restore.

Over the years, I've found that images are far more successful, far more often, than clones.

For example...

In my Disk Management pic above. I just took an image of my Win 10 install and restored it to an identical SSD.
Then I did an In-Place upgrade on the new SSD from Win 10 to Win 11.

The point here, is that you can do almost anything, with images.

kgarrett67 · Apr 17, 2023

A raid configuration is good for quickly getting a system back up and running if there is a drive failure, but as indicated already, if you have a virus or ransomware on one drive, the mirrored drive will also get the virus or ransomware. Perhaps a mirror for quickly being able to swap drives, but I'd still have a data file backup to a third drive that you back up on a regular schedule. You can control the data back up by manually doing the back up (daily, weekly, monthly, etc).

But, I also like drive imaging also. There may be a little more downtime, but as long as the images are verified as good, you should have limited downtime.

Ghot · Apr 17, 2023

@Haydon

You can take an image and restore it to ten drives if you want.
Then if one dies... just swap in a new one. Rinse and repeat.

Bree · Apr 17, 2023

Haydon said:
How about regularly making a clone of the internal boot disk as regularly as you make image files ... so that you can simply substitute the boot disk ... no worries that an image won't restore.

Well I've never had an image that won't restore. But the main reason for me is that for my system's 500GB NVMe SSD I'd need another identical NVMe to hold the clone. However, despite the SSD being 80% full a 500GB image drive can a) be a cheap HDD, and b) hold three full images of my system's SSD drive.

I routinely keep the last three full images for all my machines, so cloning to a spare drive is a non-starter for me.

Haydon · Apr 17, 2023

Ghot said:
Over the years, I've found that images are far more successful, far more often, than clones.

LOL, OK, clone by restoring the image to actual hardware then ... that's what I meant with 'internal backup disk drive' in the thread title.

(Whatever method you choose, cloning or restoring, you can verify by swapping cables, whether the substitute 'internal backup disk drive' will boot the machine, and has all the apps and user data as the case may be)

The thread title and the explanation in the OP are both badly formulated, mea culpa. In any case, what I wanted to stimulate is a discussion on the pros and cons of:

regularly making an 'internal backup disk drive' (hardware)

vs

regularly making an image (software)

Ghot · Apr 17, 2023

Haydon said:
regularly making an 'internal backup disk drive' (hardware)

vs

regularly making an image (software)

Either way works.
In both cases you'd need another drive.

Generally, most peeps make regular images. Then if disaster strikes... use the backup software's bootable media to restore the newest image to a new drive if it's a hardware disaster, or to the old drive if it's a software disaster.

I make a fresh backup... whenever I or MS have made some major software changes.
Some do that on a schedule... I just do it manually.

Haydon · Apr 17, 2023

Making an 'internal backup disk drive' goes beyond making an image, I am just wondering if it is worth the effort.

Ghot · Apr 17, 2023

Haydon said:
Making an 'internal backup disk drive' goes beyond making an image, I am just wondering if it is worth the effort.

Well you don't have to "make" the disk drive".

All you have to do is put one in there, and tell the backup software to store your backups there.

Haydon · Apr 17, 2023

@Ghot I think you missed the point. I use the phrase 'internal backup disk drive' as a label for something that you can use to substitute your internal boot disk (just swap cables) You can create the 'internal backup disk drive' by restoring an image to it.

So, is it worth the effort to go that one step beyond an image?

Ghot · Apr 17, 2023

Haydon said:
@Ghot I think you missed the point. I use the phrase 'internal backup disk drive' as a label for something that you can use to substitute your internal boot disk (just swap cables) You can create the 'internal backup disk drive' by restoring an image to it.

So, is it worth the effort to go that one step beyond an image?

It's the same either way bro.
The issue is how old the backup will be, when you need it.

Sure you can restore an image to an internal drive, and then do nothing.
A year later, you might need to swap the cables to that drive... but it will be a year out of date.

Or...

You could put a new drive in your computer, and leave it blank.
Store backups, maybe once a month somewhere else. THEN if you need to "swap cables"... just restore the "newest" image to the blank drive, and then swap the cables.

These questions would be a lot easier to answer if you filled out your computer specs.

kgarrett67 · Apr 17, 2023

Haydon said:
@Ghot I think you missed the point. I use the phrase 'internal backup disk drive' as a label for something that you can use to substitute your internal boot disk (just swap cables) You can create the 'internal backup disk drive' by restoring an image to it.

So, is it worth the effort to go that one step beyond an image?

I think that option would be user specific. If you need a quick means of getting your system back up and running, that would probably be a fast way to do that, provided you have easy access to your computer case.