Insider KB5004300 Windows 11 Insider Preview Beta and Dev Build 10.0.22000.100 - July 29

sgage · Jul 31, 2021

Almighty1 said:
While on the same subject, is there a way for Windows Update to just show the new update in Windows Update without a mandatory install and it will stay there until you manually click install, since sometimes if you read there are problems with a new build that requires a clean install, that is one way to avoid it.

Do you mean in the context of the Insiders Program, or in general? I mean, you can pause updates in Settings. If you're an Insider, the whole point is to get the new update first, test it, and report. Yes, there can be problems. As the inimitable Adam Osborne was fond of saying, "you can always tell the pioneers - they're the ones with the arrows in their backs".

Almighty1 · Jul 31, 2021

sgage said:
Do you mean in the context of the Insiders Program, or in general? I mean, you can pause updates in Settings. If you're an Insider, the whole point is to get the new update first, test it, and report. Yes, there can be problems. As the inimitable Adam Osborne was fond of saying, "you can always tell the pioneers - they're the ones with the arrows in their backs".

I don't mean I want to pause it, I meant I just want it not auto install so I have to click on it to install. And to clarify, I am saying, assume a new build is out but there were already major problems before like from a thread on the forums here, I would want to avoid installing it at that point, I meant is that possible? But ofcourse if it was there already and there were no major problems reported yet, then it's obviously better that I do the update first. Basically it's like if you knew the update created a BSOD on everyone like the AMD SCSI driver did, you wouldn't want to update it so we are talking about two different scenarios or basically three things. Pausing updates was something introduced in Windows 10 which means it will not check for updates at all for the next 7 days. My question is more like the following options which is in other software:
1) Notify me when updates are available.
2) Automatically download the updates and notify me and let me choose when to install it
3) Automatically download and install the updates and notity me

None of those 3 would have anything remotely to do with Pause Updates

testing is one thing but remember you cannot reverse anything you did should it go wrong without talking about using backups since that is taking the easy way out since you can't test a second time to see if it's the change you reversed or undo to verify and report the issue if it wasn't already reported. As a rocket scientist, there is no point is reporting a already known problem as that is no longer called a "new" discovery, that is basically agreeing with the other people who already discovered the same thing.

magilla · Jul 31, 2021

Almighty1 said:
I don't mean I want to pause it, I meant I just want it not auto install so I have to click on it to install. And to clarify, I am saying, assume a new build is out but there were already major problems before like from a thread on the forums here, I would want to avoid installing it at that point, I meant is that possible? But ofcourse if it was there already and there were no major problems reported yet, then it's obviously better that I do the update first. Basically it's like if you knew the update created a BSOD on everyone like the AMD SCSI driver did, you wouldn't want to update it so we are talking about two different scenarios.

If everyone did the same thing, no one would know what problems exist and therefore how could any progress be made? Thats why we are insiders, we are here to explore and see what bugs and problems exist so that, by reporting these, MS can correct problems.

sgage · Jul 31, 2021

Almighty1 said:
I don't mean I want to pause it, I meant I just want it not auto install so I have to click on it to install. And to clarify, I am saying, assume a new build is out but there were already major problems before like from a thread on the forums here, I would want to avoid installing it at that point, I meant is that possible? But ofcourse if it was there already and there were no major problems reported yet, then it's obviously better that I do the update first. Basically it's like if you knew the update created a BSOD on everyone like the AMD SCSI driver did, you wouldn't want to update it so we are talking about two different scenarios.

As far as I know, that is not possible as such. You can pause updates, and if a problematical one comes along, hope they pull it as they have done before. Or maybe you can do multiple pauses, and kick the can down the road until they presumably fix the issue. I've never really worried about it, so I don't know. Mostly, I run Debian

Almighty1 · Jul 31, 2021

magilla said:
If everyone did the same thing, no one would know what problems exist and therefore how could any progress be made? Thats why we are insiders, we are here to explore and see what bugs and problems exist so that, by reporting these, MS can correct problems.

You still missed the entire point, since I am talking it is already known that if you proceeded with the update, it will be a BSOD that will require a clean install so what is the point of knowing the results already and still doing it. Those problems at that point has already been reported. It's almost someone telling you there is a bank robbery inside the bank, are you still going to walk in?

Almighty1 · Jul 31, 2021

sgage said:
As far as I know, that is not possible as such. You can pause updates, and if a problematical one comes along, hope they pull it as they have done before. Or maybe you can do multiple pauses, and kick the can down the road until they presumably fix the issue. I've never really worried about it, so I don't know. Mostly, I run Debian

That's different which is in response to you bringing Debian Linux into the picture because with Unix OSes, should something go wrong. You just find another way to boot and replace the kernel and all the system binaries. Same rule applies to FreeBSD/NetBSD or any Unix based OS. I mean I would not want to use backups because you will also lose all the update apps and updated data since the backup has happened.

It is possible in one way which might or not work, you just don't reboot until the next build is out and then you install from the ISO as a repair install.

Bree · Jul 31, 2021

Almighty1 said:
is there a way for Windows Update to just show the new update in Windows Update without a mandatory install and it will stay there until you manually click instal

Yes, but only if you have Pro. There's a 'Configure Automatic Updates' group policy for that. In Windows 10 it's Option Two, Step 6 in this tutorial:

Enable or Disable Windows Update Automatic Updates in Windows 10

How to Enable or Disable Automatic Updates for Windows Update in Windows 10

www.tenforums.com

In Windows 11 the same policy exists, but under a slightly different path in gpedit:

Computer Configuration/Administrative Templates/Windows Components/Windows Update/Manage end user experience

sgage · Jul 31, 2021

Almighty1 said:
You still missed the entire point, since I am talking it is already known that if you proceeded with the update, it will be a BSOD that will require a clean install so what is the point of knowing the results already and still doing it. Those problems at that point has already been reported. It's almost someone telling you there is a bank robbery inside the bank, are you still going to walk in?

If such a thing is already known, the update will be pulled, or never published. If you are an Insider, you will know that there is always the possibility of having to reinstall. If he has missed your point, well it's really hard to know just what your point is.

sgage · Jul 31, 2021

Almighty1 said:
That's different because with Unix OSes, should something go wrong. You just find another way to boot and replace the kernel and all the system binaries. Same rule applies to FreeBSD/NetBSD or any Unix based OS. I mean I would not want to use backups because you will also lose all the update apps and updated data since the backup has happened.

It is possible in one way which might or not work, you just don't reboot until the next build is out and then you install from the ISO as a repair install.

For godz sake, Windows is not a Unix-like OS, nor anything like it. You might consider sticking with BSD, or whatever your preference might be.

magilla · Jul 31, 2021

Almighty1 said:
You still missed the entire point, since I am talking it is already known that if you proceeded with the update, it will be a BSOD that will require a clean install so what is the point of knowing the results already and still doing it. Those problems at that point has already been reported. It's almost someone telling you there is a bank robbery inside the bank, are you still going to walk in?

No, I think you miss the point. Multiple insiders need to test each download in order to conclude that in every instance a certain driver is responsible for system crashes. And each of our system configurations differ from the next. All of us need to be testing and reporting individual findings. If you don’t get that, why do you want to be an insider?

sgage · Jul 31, 2021

magilla said:
No, I think you miss the point. Multiple insiders need to test each download in order to conclude that in every instance a certain driver is responsible for system crashes. And each of our system configurations differ from the next. All of us need to be testing and reporting individual findings. If you don’t get that, why do you want to be an insider?

I don't know that he does want to be an Insider, or if he is one, or if what he is asking about is in the context of the Insider Program or just in general. He is not really that clear about it.

Almighty1 · Jul 31, 2021

sgage said:
If such a thing is already known, the update will be pulled, or never published. If you are an Insider, you will know that there is always the possibility of having to reinstall. If he has missed your point, well it's really hard to know just what your point is.

Well, pulling takes time since they can always publish it and then people have problems like within the first 30 minutes of it coming out. Remember it all depends on the release engineers who does the release how alpha it is, just like if you noticed, there are only 1 person who has the July 2021 version of the Windows Defender Engine and no one else does no matter how hard they tried to update since your scenario is only if they notice it right away like they pushed it out and then 2 seconds later, they reversed it but if lots of people already had the problem, then there is nothing to test until they fix it. And you are talking about two scenarios like I said. It is given that there is always the possibility of having to reinstall which is not a fact, the key operating word is possible. Ofcourse if there was always a thread here or elsewhere that says it's guaranteed you will have to reinstall, that's not the same as possible. possible means 0% certainty and there is a unknown % of a chance of failure while absolutely means 100% certainty of a failure just like the saying, there are no guarantees or certainties in life except for two things, death and taxes.

Almighty1 · Jul 31, 2021

sgage said:
For godz sake, Windows is not a Unix-like OS, nor anything like it. You might consider sticking with BSD, or whatever your preference might be.

Well, who said Windows was a Unix like OS. I did not say that, don't take words out of my mouth and make assumptions. I have ran Windows way longer than you have since 1.0 in the late 1980s. Stop being a troll and next thing I know is you will be swearing with profanity. If you can't answer the question, don't answer it since you were the one who went off-topic by saying you mostly run Debian, then go run Debian. Clean installs are taking the easy way out when there is a problem which was my point you missed since when there is a problem, one can always manually fix it if they had the skills to do it. If your house had a small hole in it, are you going to just tear it down or are you going to fix it? Your reasoning is almost the same like ISPs telling people to format their hard drive when it's a problem with the service itself. And since you used the word "god", what do you think my nickname is a synonym for or in your case, spell the word backwards for a better definition of yourself.

Almighty1 · Jul 31, 2021

magilla said:
No, I think you miss the point. Multiple insiders need to test each download in order to conclude that in every instance a certain driver is responsible for system crashes. And each of our system configurations differ from the next. All of us need to be testing and reporting individual findings. If you don’t get that, why do you want to be an insider?

I am talking about multiple instances. My example is what happens if by the time I was going to install it which may be 2 hours after it's available since remember some people see the Windows Update faster than others and you have like 100 people in this thread complaining that they had to do a clean install. I am not talking about one instance since as a Astrophysicist, I do not count one or few examples, I am talking about a majority of people who already experienced the problem with different hardware or only with specific hardware since I am sure just like anything else, they will post what is on their system so if it's a AMD only issue, then obviously someone with Intel will still attempt it or vice versa. I'm not going to skip attempting it if only one person had a problem because that could just be that individuals configuration. The thing is that everyone who is testing here is using it under a VM it seems and not actually directly so it's the same people that don't care while I as a insider actually will run it like a regular system and test things that no one else can test or have the answer to. Go look at all my posts where I found the solution and presented it to Microsoft after posting it on this forum at the same time like the thumbnails for programs failing to work only for a certain percentage per file type among other things. I also test for GDI Resources and User resources which no one else does even though this has been a limitation of windows since the 9x days. So I am talking about when there are lots of people with a problem and it's related to a certain type of hardware configuration, not one where only a few users had the problem. Not to mention, sometimes I prefer doing it the long route of a in-place repair install to do the upgrade over Windows Update. Yes, there are tons of people who will do a clean install from the ISO but someone has to also test if it works correctly using the ISO to do the upgrade.

PerpetualCycle · Jul 31, 2021

Cliff S said:
But!
One thing really sucks garlic bon-bons is when running benchmarks, the graphics keep hitching , like I'm missing frames
'scuse please? I have a 3090 and a 9900K

I don't game, but I bet the experience is rotten too.

I am not having such performance issues anymore Cliff. Knock on wood.

Almighty1 · Jul 31, 2021

Cliff S said:
After some heavy use this morning I have confirmed File Explorer will freeze up(or not responding in the title bar showing) when you have a few programs trying to access stuff in your libraries at the same time. I have never experienced this before, never.

I noticed in the last week; a bit of latency or slight delay in explorers reaction to clicking, in being able to do something while another program is running, example photos is open, and you right click the picture to apply as wallpaper, and other things the like.

Not sure if it's related to the Windows Explorer Memory Leakage mentioned here:

The Windows Insider Program

Be the first to see what's next for Windows in the Windows Insider Program. Join the community, provide feedback to help make Windows even better.

aka.ms

Cliff S · Aug 1, 2021

Almighty1 said:
Not sure if it's related to the Windows Explorer Memory Leakage mentioned here:

The Windows Insider Program

Be the first to see what's next for Windows in the Windows Insider Program. Join the community, provide feedback to help make Windows even better.

aka.ms

Thanks A1

I that's probably it, I posted this with the other feedback:

Same problem here, when you click a few items the in Explorer one after another just to look at them, say the information in the details pane, then memory use jumps, and Explorer can stop responding.

Cliff S · Aug 1, 2021

geneo said:
I am not having such performance issues anymore Cliff. Knock on wood.

There are others too having problems, I thumbs upped all the posts in Feedback hub about it.
I'm using the same setting in Windows, Nvidia Control panel and Afterburner as I did in Win10, both for normal use, and jacked-up maximum OC for benching, and still get the video hitching, but this is only when running benchmarks, like 3D marks, all of Unigine's, and Real Bench. FurMark ROG and Kombustor(from Afterburner, do not have any problems. ASUS FurMark ROG Scores

jimbo45 · Aug 1, 2021

Hi folks

Maybe Ms has really taken this to heart :

Looks like in future if you are over 7 you are already too old for I.T !!!!!!

However back to W11 -- Anybody found a way to restore "Classic W10" menu - the current W11 one wastes much to much screen real estate -- the previous fixes don't work on the latest release including the registry hack.

Cheers
jimbo

SlicEnDicE · Aug 1, 2021

jimbo45 said:
Hi folks

Maybe Ms has really taken this to heart :

View attachment 4519

Looks like in future if you are over 7 you are already too old for I.T !!!!!!

However back to W11 -- Anybody found a way to restore "Classic W10" menu - the current W11 one wastes much to much screen real estate -- the previous fixes don't work on the latest release including the registry hack.

Cheers
jimbo