Solved Please explain following.

The i9-12900HK has a base frequency of 2.5GHz for the P-cores (performance cores), but the multiplier is unlocked so you can just dial in 29 to make it 2.9GHz no problemo. As you probably know, the maximum Turbo frequency for the P-cores is 5GHz with this CPU. 3.8GHz is the maximum Turbo frequency for the E-cores (efficiency cores), and the E-cores can go as low as 1.8GHz to save more power and generate less heat.

The CPU uses its own internal algorithm to perform its own power and thermal management, which it does automatically and autonomously. Laptop manufacturers can (partially) configure the parameters in BIOS to meet their own specific design goals, as power and thermal characteristics tend to vary between different laptops. So, the exact make and model of the actual laptop in question also plays a role in this regard. Windows 11 does, however, also have a thread scheduler that is aware of P-cores and E-cores, and, this translates to a small (but can still be noticed sometimes nevertheless) performance increase under a few specific circumstances when compared to Windows 10, as Intel Thread Director is designed for Windows 11.

HWiNFO and ThrottleStop can be used to closely monitor and study your CPU's power and thermal behavior patterns.

Keep in mind that, once it goes to 70°C, it can still boost the frequencies and power till it hits 100°C. It won't overheat after that, BUT... the lower the temperatures each time BEFORE it starts to boost your socks off once more, the longer it can continue to boost higher. That is, in spite of the fact that flagship i9 CPUs can continue to boost indefinitely.

Even though a mobile CPU is not the same thing as a desktop CPU, I managed to learn quite a lot from reading articles such as this:

hdmi said:

ThrottleStopThread Director is designed for Windows 11

Click to expand...

Hey HDMI!

Love your avatar.

I have read this on the Intel site a few weeks ago. This is why I am not concerned about the temps.
I was only asking for info on the CPU-Z read out and wanted to know more why this BIOS update gave it
a 200 MHz boost. Seems MSI aren't giving us any info on the updates like, what it's for and if it fixes something
or as in this case, a CPU boost. I really liked Asus info on BIOS updates. Miss that.

Came here for a little of info and I got a heck of allot more than I asked for and am grateful for all your responses

Now, concerning the apps you and Glasskuter mentioned, I've had HWinfo on here before but, didn't take the
time to look for specifics. If I have the time, I will install it again and look further into it.
The other one ThrottleStop , will this be about the same as HWInfo? I do not want to mess with any of the settings
on the CPU nor do I want to overclock it. It is strong (maybe too strong) enough for the games that I play as not many
require i9s. GPUs on the hand well, that is what is important to me and most gamers I would presume.

Thanks for the links . I will definitely take look and read up on what they have say.

So, as I promised to Glasskuter, I took screens of Core-temp while playing Sniper Elite 4. Not a very demanding game but,
allot of fun.

First one , about 30 minutes in. (left)
The second, about 85 minutes in: (right)

And with this, I will bid you good day Sir.
Thanks for your time HDMI!

Flashorn said:

The other one ThrottleStop , will this be about the same as HWInfo?

Click to expand...

It's some ways similar as far as the CPU monitoring part is concerned.

Flashorn said:

nor do I want to overclock it.

Click to expand...

Too late now, seeing as MSI already overclocked it to 2.9GHz for you. I presume that the reason why they didn't do that initially was just because they had to run a few extra tests on it first. As for the temperatures, your laptop uses a Phase Change thermal pad. I would keep an eye on whether the cooling performance will start to degrade as a result of the thermal grease wearing out over time:

hdmi said:

As for the temperatures, your laptop uses a Phase Change thermal pad

Click to expand...

As for the cooling of the CPU, I knew going in that MSI had come up with a new compound for the paste.
So, my question is:
If my notebook is on a 20ish degree lift at the back, would this affect the ability of the thermal metal to completely
cover the CPU once it's liquid< meaning, would the inclination of the notebook be enough to let the metal liquid,
once liquefied, to slid to one side and hence not be able to do it's job properly??

Thanks for the MSI link, it's a frustrating answer for those / us who might be able to re & re the paste/thermal pad.

hdmi said:

Too late now, seeing as MSI already overclocked it to 2.9GHz for you

Click to expand...

That's the problem. I don't think they have over clocked it via BIOS update. they may have at the factory but, it initially
came as a 2.9 MHz.

I have come across a few sites that had a preview back in 10/2021 on this CPU. Sources are not confirmed though and
I don't know how reliable they are . This is partly why I came here for answers.



Now, I have bench marked this notebook on Geekbench as well as part of my initial benchmarking tests. (I know, some don't like Geekbench but hey, it's just another tool in the tool box) and here are the results although, the avatar name is different:

If you have read the articles, you will see that the initial results I got are just about the same.
The second result is after the last BIOS update.

First result on the right
Second on the left

So, my thoughts are still the same. MSI thought that the heat generated from the 2.9 was to high and hence, scaled it back to a 2.5 for the
rest of their Raider GE76 series. What do you think??


Thanks again for all the info and time you gave me.

Flashorn said:

As for the cooling of the CPU, I knew going in that MSI had come up with a new compound for the paste.
So, my question is:
If my notebook is on a 20ish degree lift at the back, would this affect the ability of the thermal metal to completely
cover the CPU once it's liquid< meaning, would the inclination of the notebook be enough to let the metal liquid,
once liquefied, to slid to one side and hence not be able to do it's job properly??

Click to expand...

I have no idea, but I would probably look for an excellent quality cooling pad with fans blowing fresh air softly and steadily against the bottom of this laptop everywhere and that keeps it perfectly horizontal.

Flashorn said:

Thanks for the MSI link, it's a frustrating answer for those / us who might be able to re & re the paste/thermal pad.

Click to expand...

If it helps with the cooling performance as much as they promise it does, then IMO it's worth the inconvenience of not being able to re-paste it yourself, and also I don't think it has to be re-pasted very often.

Flashorn said:

That's the problem. I don't think they have over clocked it via BIOS update. they may have at the factory but, it initially
came as a 2.9 MHz.

Click to expand...

The non-overclocked base frequency for the P-cores is 2.5 GHz with the multiplier set to 25 so, if it was 2.9 GHz it means the multiplier was upped to 29 giving it a 16% overclock, which is not an extremely high overclock. When you buy a relatively expensive gaming laptop that has been specifically designed to overclock and geared toward high end enthusiast type of customers, then I really don't see why it shouldn't already come overclocked to some extent out-of-the-box.

Flashorn said:

I have come across a few sites that had a preview back in 10/2021 on this CPU. Sources are not confirmed though and
I don't know how reliable they are . This is partly why I came here for answers.

Intel Core i9-12900HK: 14 core and 20 thread processor pulls no punches with the Apple M1 Max in leaked Geekbench listing

The Core i9-12900HK has landed on Geekbench, albeit in a closed benchmark. The early signs are good for Intel's premier laptop processor, with it outscoring all contemporary processors in its wake, including the Apple M1 Max.

www.notebookcheck.net

Intel Alder Lake Mobility CPU Benchmarks Leaked: Faster Than The Apple M1 Max, Smokes AMD 5980HX, 11980HK

So we have something very interesting for our readers today. We were able to exclusively get our hands on the first-ever benchmarks for Intel's upcoming Alder Lake mobility processors - which are going to go head to head against the Apple M1 Max processors clawing away market share as well as...

wccftech.com

Now, I have bench marked this notebook on Geekbench as well as part of my initial benchmarking tests. (I know, some don't like Geekbench but hey, it's just another tool in the tool box) and here are the results although, the avatar name is different:

If you have read the articles, you will see that the initial results I got are just about the same.
The second result is after the last BIOS update.

First result on the right
Second on the left

So, my thoughts are still the same. MSI thought that the heat generated from the 2.9 was to high and hence, scaled it back to a 2.5 for the
rest of their Raider GE76 series. What do you think??


Thanks again for all the info and time you gave me.

Click to expand...

Maybe you should register an account on the MSI forum and ask around on there. Another good place to post questions like this would be guru3D Forums─"Home of the RivaTuner" (I am an "ancient guru" there, as I became a member in 2009 under a different name and retired from gaming so I have quit posting there lol).

I realize this is a johnny-come-lately response and I'm glad I took my time. Even so. If this were my notebook and I had to face temps like that I would be desperately seeking ways to down clock that CPU. Call me a dinosaur and paint me ancient but I start getting concerned when I see temps @ half that mark. I'm very pleased when my CPUs run @ 30 something C on an OC with air cooling and yes, it can be done. BUT you don't really have a whole lot of room for airflow in those notebooks so with temps that high life expectancy is dubious no matter how much it throttles down. I realize 60° C is no biggy on an over clocked CPU in a gaming rig with good air flow and decent cooling but there is only so much you can cram into a little laptop before you start cutting corners. Anyway, that's my take on it.

Scannerman said:

I realize this is a johnny-come-lately response and I'm glad I took my time. Even so. If this were my notebook and I had to face temps like that I would be desperately seeking ways to down clock that CPU. Call me a dinosaur and paint me ancient but I start getting concerned when I see temps @ half that mark. I'm very pleased when my CPUs run @ 30 something C on an OC with air cooling and yes, it can be done. BUT you don't really have a whole lot of room for airflow in those notebooks so with temps that high life expectancy is dubious no matter how much it throttles down. I realize 60° C is no biggy on an over clocked CPU in a gaming rig with good air flow and decent cooling but there is only so much you can cram into a little laptop before you start cutting corners. Anyway, that's my take on it.

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I took HDMI's advice and opened a discussion on the MSI Global forum. Yep, these guys are really into the MSI branding but, do know what they are talking about. As it is, the i9s on this and the other MSI notebooks are all the same, they all have temps reaching in the 90s and as far as they are concerned , that's the way they are. The i9s of this and newer configuration of the Raider or GE77s are all configured to run Hot but, not all the time. When gaming, they will run hot but, only when the game hits high points and only for short periods. I usually get to about 95*C in certain games for short bursts and then they go back to an average of 75*C ~ 80*C. I always have the Fan Boost on with headphones so, the fans don't bother me. What was really bothering me was the fact that MSI has liquid metal under the CPU and GPU coolers. I knew they were adding new kind of paste but then, got to thinking that , what happens to the thermal pad once it gets to liquid metal. I was afraid it would seep onto the motherboard and short something out. Turns out, they have built some kind of dam around both to keep the liquid in place. So, with that piece of mind, I am not worried about the temps too much. I just keep an eye on it and IF it gets out of hand then, I will approach the problem differently.

Call me a dinosaur and paint me ancient

Click to expand...

OK you got it, you're a dinosaur

Mike.

Flashorn said:

I took HDMI's advice and opened a discussion on the MSI Global forum. Yep, these guys are really into the MSI branding but, do know what they are talking about. As it is, the i9s on this and the other MSI notebooks are all the same, they all have temps reaching in the 90s and as far as they are concerned , that's the way they are. The i9s of this and newer configuration of the Raider or GE77s are all configured to run Hot but, not all the time. When gaming, they will run hot but, only when the game hits high points and only for short periods. I usually get to about 95*C in certain games for short bursts and then they go back to an average of 75*C ~ 80*C. I always have the Fan Boost on with headphones so, the fans don't bother me. What was really bothering me was the fact that MSI has liquid metal under the CPU and GPU coolers. I knew they were adding new kind of paste but then, got to thinking that , what happens to the thermal pad once it gets to liquid metal. I was afraid it would seep onto the motherboard and short something out. Turns out, they have built some kind of dam around both to keep the liquid in place. So, with that piece of mind, I am not worried about the temps too much. I just keep an eye on it and IF it gets out of hand then, I will approach the problem differently.



OK you got it, you're a dinosaur

Mike.

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lol I am so!

Scannerman said:

lol I am so!

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Sorry man, I just couldn't resist.
BTW , I'm most likely older than you are so I'll join your club.

Unless you're in your 70's you're not much older than me. Anyway, I still have plenty of headroom in the old girl yet and I drew the line @ 49° C coz that's how I roll.

Scannerman said:

Unless you're in your 70's you're not much older than me

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You just hit the nail on the head LOL! Will not confirm nor deny.

The multiplier on that "Desktop CPU" is at 43.
But, I have 14 Cores !
How do we compete?

Have you seen the size of my notebook?

Flashorn said:

You just hit the nail on the head LOL! Will not confirm nor deny.

The multiplier on that "Desktop CPU" is at 43.
But, I have 14 Cores !
How do we compete?

Have you seen the size of my notebook?

Click to expand...

That's why I advise getting some realistic temps on that thing. How long do you think that CPU will last if it's constantly doing 100° C under load? Just because it performs @ those temperatures doesn't mean that it should. Admittedly, that's my opinion and I know as a former enthusiast that pushing the envelope can be fun. But hey, fun also has a price and if I didn't care how long my CPU lasted temps would not be a concern either. I'm not trying to compete because we are comparing apples and oranges here. I was just illustrating how it is possible to get good performance with a reasonable TDP. Overclocking laptops is hardly my thing but perhaps that's where the future is going. Myself, I'll stick with my towers and keep my laptops for more mundane things like networking, travel, text files, and web surfing. All that heat in a laptop can't be a good thing although it might make a good substitute for a heating pad if you're in a pinch.

I use my Dell XPS laptop for actively trading the stock market, Adobe Photoshop and Lightroom, and writing a bit of code with Microsoft Visual Studio. My i9 never gets more than slightly warm as I don't do anything really stressful like you guys playing high end games.

TraderGary said:

I use my Dell XPS laptop for actively trading the stock market, Adobe Photoshop and Lightroom, and writing a bit of code with Microsoft Visual Studio. My i9 never gets more than slightly warm as I don't do anything really stressful like you guys playing high end games.

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I don't play high end games myself, and it would be hard to imagine overclocking a CPU simply to trade on the stock market or do any of the things you listed. I'm pretty sure the i7 in my Dell laptop would serve me equally well with those tasks. I don't even know why anyone would overclock a laptop TBH but I'm guessing that's where the future is. I never really could get my head around the concept of a gaming laptop. I'm guessing the selling point is mobility. Perhaps if I were a hard core gamer I'd be more receptive to the idea, but it wouldn't be enough for me to get one because I really don't travel very much these days. When I'm on the road I don't have time for games. Indubitably, some people do. Now that I think of it that's probably why I don't have any high end GFX cards in my PCs either. I simply cannot justify the cost.

Scannerman said:

All that heat in a laptop can't be a good thing although it might make a good substitute for a heating pad if you're in a pinch.

Click to expand...

Was that unintentional or are you just having a laugh at my age LOL!
I'm glad to see that we can still have a laugh while still having a good conversation.
I guess I deserved some kind of payback. Good one though.

I didn't mean I wanted to compete with any other PCs, I was just saying that notebooks still can't.

I've had i7s since 2010. Never had an i9 so, why not before I start pushing up daisies right?
On the bright side, I learned a lesson. Not that I mind having a heater under my fingers
as it just warms the joints.

But, to tell you the truth, I really don't see the need for i9s in a notebook , gaming or otherwise.
It is not feasible and the space you would need to keep it cool well, might as well put a PC together.
This is why I bought iPads for the kids.

Like I said, if it lasts well , that's a benefit, if not , I have a lesson to teach my grand-kids.

I'm really not concerned about the temps at this point. I've had it for over a year now and if this thing
had a problem with heat, it would've shown it's ugly face already. The only real concern here is re pasting
of the CPU. On any other notebook that wouldn't be a problem but, on this one because it has a Thermal
Pad that melts to liquid metal, I would probably have to have it done as I have never seen let alone worked
on one with this type of paste. On the MSI forums, they tell me that there is a dam surrounding the CPU and
the GPU to contain the melted metal and that you have to be extra careful with that otherwise, if it seeps
it Will short out your motherboard. So, as long as I can still get over 100 FPS in the games I play then, that's all
that matters at this point.

I'm glad to have had a good belly laugh here and it is nice to talk with all of you.

Mike.

Scannerman said:

I don't play high end games myself, and it would be hard to imagine overclocking a CPU simply to trade on the stock market or do any of the things you listed. I'm pretty sure the i7 in my Dell laptop would serve me equally well with those tasks. I don't even know why anyone would overclock a laptop TBH but I'm guessing that's where the future is. I never really could get my head around the concept of a gaming laptop. I'm guessing the selling point is mobility. Perhaps if I were a hard core gamer I'd be more receptive to the idea, but it wouldn't be enough for me to get one because I really don't travel very much these days. When I'm on the road I don't have time for games. Indubitably, some people do. Now that I think of it that's probably why I don't have any high end GFX cards in my PCs either. I simply cannot justify the cost.

Click to expand...

I'm not a gamer either. For the past few decades I've been away from where my desktop used to sit more than half the time. My laptop is always with me and it's a faster, better machine than any desktop I ever owned. But then it's been more than 20 years since I've owned a desktop. At this stage of my life a desktop no longer makes any sense. I can no longer be tied down to one spot in one room of my house. Mobility is paramount and today's high end laptops are superb machines.

TraderGary said:

Mobility is paramount and today's high end laptops are superb machines.

Click to expand...

That was my guess because I can't fathom any other reason anyone would want to game on a laptop much less over clock one. Personally, I prefer the easy access of a tower case, the work room, the airflow, and the aesthetics. The only real physical limitation in this regard would be mobility. So, I am thinking overclocking laptops would be more of an enthusiast's enterprise than anything else. Mercy sakes, 100° C is hot enough to constitute a safety hazard IMO.

Flashorn said:

Was that unintentional or are you just having a laugh at my age LOL!
I'm glad to see that we can still have a laugh while still having a good conversation.
I guess I deserved some kind of payback. Good one though.

I didn't mean I wanted to compete with any other PCs, I was just saying that notebooks still can't.

I've had i7s since 2010. Never had an i9 so, why not before I start pushing up daisies right?
On the bright side, I learned a lesson. Not that I mind having a heater under my fingers
as it just warms the joints.

But, to tell you the truth, I really don't see the need for i9s in a notebook , gaming or otherwise.
It is not feasible and the space you would need to keep it cool well, might as well put a PC together.
This is why I bought iPads for the kids.

Like I said, if it lasts well , that's a benefit, if not , I have a lesson to teach my grand-kids.

I'm really not concerned about the temps at this point. I've had it for over a year now and if this thing
had a problem with heat, it would've shown it's ugly face already. The only real concern here is re pasting
of the CPU. On any other notebook that wouldn't be a problem but, on this one because it has a Thermal
Pad that melts to liquid metal, I would probably have to have it done as I have never seen let alone worked
on one with this type of paste. On the MSI forums, they tell me that there is a dam surrounding the CPU and
the GPU to contain the melted metal and that you have to be extra careful with that otherwise, if it seeps
it Will short out your motherboard. So, as long as I can still get over 100 FPS in the games I play then, that's all
that matters at this point.

I'm glad to have had a good belly laugh here and it is nice to talk with all of you.

Mike.

Click to expand...

Mike, it's great to have you here. A little levity in the group is good for morale. Laptops aside, we seem to share a few things in common. I'm just a stubborn old man, despite my govt. trying to force me to retire officially. Meh, I'll get around to it one day. Yeah, I opted for Samsung with my kids and despite my age the eldest in this brood just turned sweet 16 yesterday. I had to tell the youngest when she turned 14 she'd get a tablet too. I further explained that by the time she got her tablet her sisters' tablets would be old and outdated. She was pleased to wait after that. They all have laptops. During the whole Covid "crisis" the school sent these girls home with Google Chromebooks. I nearly gagged. Needless to say they were all furnished immediately with laptops that put those Chromebooks to shame. (Not that this was hard to do.) The school got a thanks but no thanks letter. I also have a 36 year old son and a 34 year old daughter. I stopped buying technology for them ages ago and they can carry on the tradition with their own children. Life goes on.

I envision you kicking your grand kids' butts in a high end game while they try to tackle you with their iPads.

I've always been leery of liquid metal and for this reason I've never used it. I recall reading an article saying that Intel voids the warranty on chips installed with liquid metal and I can't say as I blame them. It pretty much amounts to a permanent modification. But hey, they're still running engines with nitro and they're still crystallizing heads and they're still having fun. So yeah, may the enthusiast in us all live on. Perhaps a heated keyboard for arthritic fingers isn't such a bad idea after all. For me, my enthusiast days are pretty much over — unless playing around with older hardware still counts.

Ironically, the 16 year old, who has turned her attention to coding, prefers the older hardware. She loves the idea of an actual BIOS and refuses to let me replace her X58 platform with anything newer. So when it comes right down to it I have to conclude it really is all a matter of user preference. Who am I to judge? Game on!

Scannerman said:

I stopped buying technology for them ages agoI also have a 36 year old son and a 34 year old daughter. I stopped buying technology for them ages ago and they can carry on the tradition with their own children. Life goes on.

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Hey scannerman!

We only had the chance to have one daughter before the onset of Crohn's which took her mother.
But, she got to have her around until University. She is now 38 and has my two grandkids to keep her
busy.
You on the other hand , got to be very busy and hope all of them are healthy. You can wish your 16 year old a Happy Birthday
on my part and all of us here as well.

Scannerman said:

I stopped buying technology for them ages ago

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Lucky man.

Scannerman said:

I envision you kicking your grand kids' butts in a high end game while they try to tackle you with their iPads.

Click to expand...

Maybe one day but, for now, games will have to wait. Outdoor activities are the priority plus,
the games I like to play, Gen would not like me showing them how to kill Zombies LOL!

Scannerman said:

Perhaps a heated keyboard for arthritic fingers isn't such a bad idea after all

Click to expand...

How about you invent one, copyright it and sit back with all that cash coming in.
Retirement wouldn't sound so bad right.

Scannerman said:

I've always been leery of liquid metal and for this reason I've never used it. I recall reading an article saying that Intel voids the warranty on chips installed with liquid metal and I can't say as I blame them.

Click to expand...

The reason it's not installed on PCs is just that. It is liquid and the fact that the motherboard sits on it's side and spill out from under the cooler.
I guess it would have to be a sealed unit and never re-pasted or you might find yourself having to replace the whole unit,CPU and cooler. The
price would be prohibitive.

Scannerman said:

For me, my enthusiast days are pretty much over

Click to expand...

Once a gamer , always a gamer.
Have you tried Sniper Elite. I have all of them and love them all. They are all on sale right now on Steam
Sniper Elite 4 is on sale for $7.00. I know, I got ....
The one I really like to play is the 4th one in the series. It's slow and you can take your time, eye the enemy
and take the shot. I can spend two hours on that game and a well placed shot gives you that satisfaction.

Scannerman said:

hey, they're still running engines with nitro and they're still crystallizing heads and they're still having fun

Click to expand...

What's the fun in Not pushing the limits on stuff you build with your own hands. How else are
we going to learn .
And, that's not all they tear apart. cracked blocks, blown turbos, valves ending up in cylinders.
I could go on. Ah, the smell of that high octane and burnt rubber. Good old days.

OK, enough about all that's gone by. Time for a game.

Talk to you soon.

Mike.

Flashorn said:

Hey scannerman!

We only had the chance to have one daughter before the onset of Crohn's which took her mother.
But, she got to have her around until University. She is now 38 and has my two grandkids to keep her
busy.
You on the other hand , got to be very busy and hope all of them are healthy. You can wish your 16 year old a Happy Birthday
on my part and all of us here as well.


Lucky man.


Maybe one day but, for now, games will have to wait. Outdoor activities are the priority plus,
the games I like to play, Gen would not like me showing them how to kill Zombies LOL!


How about you invent one, copyright it and sit back with all that cash coming in.
Retirement wouldn't sound so bad right.


The reason it's not installed on PCs is just that. It is liquid and the fact that the motherboard sits on it's side and spill out from under the cooler.
I guess it would have to be a sealed unit and never re-pasted or you might find yourself having to replace the whole unit,CPU and cooler. The
price would be prohibitive.

Once a gamer , always a gamer.
Have you tried Sniper Elite. I have all of them and love them all. They are all on sale right now on Steam
Sniper Elite 4 is on sale for $7.00. I know, I got ....
The one I really like to play is the 4th one in the series. It's slow and you can take your time, eye the enemy
and take the shot. I can spend two hours on that game and a well placed shot gives you that satisfaction.

What's the fun in Not pushing the limits on stuff you build with your own hands. How else are
we going to learn .
And, that's not all they tear apart. cracked blocks, blown turbos, valves ending up in cylinders.
I could go on. Ah, the smell of that high octane and burnt rubber. Good old days.

OK, enough about all that's gone by. Time for a game.

Talk to you soon.

Mike.

Click to expand...

Yeah, I have a lot on my plate for a man my age but I wouldn't have it any other way. Children (and grandchildren) are precious creatures. I have enough to keep me busy with builds and upgrades for the next 20 years if these fingers don't give out on me before then. I have to be fair though, the keyboard was your idea. Indubitably, someone in China has already invented it. TBH the concept of official retirement gives me the shudders. I keep dodging it and I keep getting these funny looking letters in the mail. The young wife (she's always gonna be my young wife) keeps telling me I'm going to have to come to terms with it. Well, where's the fun in that?

I remember when my first born daughter was 16 and we played Halo together. Shooter games can be a lot of fun, but I burned out on them. Long ago, I was an MS+ for MSN Gaming Zone. Remember them? Well, I have to say I'm pretty much all gamed out. My youngest is a ginger, high-spirited and competitive. She tries to get me to game with her all the time. I humour her, but these days I can only game so much before I start yawning. Daughter #2 (yes, I have four daughters) used to game quite a bit but has turned her attention to coding and her little sister is a bit miffed about it. They used to play Mine Craft together a lot. For all you Dads out there reading this, here's a tip: Don't leave your PC turned on for any length of time to tackle another project if your children are tech savvy. One day I came back to discover that my work station had been converted into a gaming server for Mine Craft! The ginger said, "Oh Dad, you have tons of memory you never use anyway." Can you believe it??? Sure enough, all of them were gaming together on a private server compliments of Daddy-0.

Yeah, the good ole days... When gas was 30 cents a litre and you could snag any old V-8 junker at an auction for $200 and fill your boots. Those days are gone :::sigh::: I used to drive my neighbours crazy. lol

Thanks, Mike. You brought a smile to my face and I had a good chuckle.