Solved Back up NAS


Bikeit

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Im using a Synology DS720+NAS which I have backed up to a 4 TB Lacie HDD via the USB 3 port on the NAS, im looking to replace the Lacie HDD to an NVME M.2 SSD in and enclosure, so am I better to buy a GEN 4 faster drive or does it not make any difference as im going to be using the NVME SSD in an enclosure?
 
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The Gen3 vs Gen4 issues have almost no bearing when used in an external enclosure. It only means something when used as internal drives (NvME) in Systems that contain those particular PCI Express hardware generations.
 

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Froggie thanks, didnt want to waste money buying the wrong NVME ssd.
 

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won't make any difference, with USB 3.2 Gen 2 and an NVMe drive, you will top out around 1000-1200MB/sec....which is about 1/3 of the potential of a Gen 3 drive.
 

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    Beelink SEI8
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    Intel Core i5-8279u
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    Intel Iris Plus 655
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Thanks pparks1 what would be a better option?
 

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I use a Buffalo LinkStation NAS drive with 2 x 2TB drives as RAID 1 for 2TB storage [getting close to needing 3TB or 4TB drives]. The second drive is a mirror copy of the first drive. Also have most of the data on a 4TB USB My Book drive.
 

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    Dell Vostro 3400
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    Intel Core i5 11th Gen. 2.40GHz
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    12GB
    Hard Drives
    256GB SSD NVMe
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    Windows 11 Pro RTM x64
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    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Vostro 5890
    CPU
    Intel Core i5 10th Gen. 2.90GHz
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    16GB
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won't make any difference, with USB 3.2 Gen 2 and an NVMe drive, you will top out around 1000-1200MB/sec....which is about 1/3 of the potential of a Gen 3 drive.
Gen 4 with USB-C is better -- anyway depends on how much data you need to backup from NAS to other storage.

If using a Linux type OS on the NAS you can use rsync or if you have a GUI on it or can ssh remotely with -X (X server) enabled you can use grsync (gui front end for rsync.) Loads of options - so just connect external devices and run a cron job --usually I only want data that's changed or new files.

The Gui interface isn;t all singing and dancing --but hey this is Linux --not Windows so you need to
know what you are doing !!!!.

grsync with std options (you can also run in test mode to see what's going to be archived).

Screenshot_20240212_154959.png
for example backup all data from mnt/DV2 to wherever you want meeting the standard default settings -- zillions of other options too including logging process etc.

Note add the final '/' in the source data or you'll get new directories created on the target device. For non existent directories on the target device the backup will create them automatically on the target.

Used this for years --100% reliable. (and FREE). Otherwise you can use paid software like brubackup etc -- not really worth it for home users though.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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One thing to check, will the NAS device accept the NVMe drives or will adapters be needed? I just received a package of 2 adapters for mounting 2.5" drives in a place for 3.5" drives.
 

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    Intel Core i5 11th Gen. 2.40GHz
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    12GB
    Hard Drives
    256GB SSD NVMe
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    Windows 11 Pro RTM x64
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    Manufacturer/Model
    Dell Vostro 5890
    CPU
    Intel Core i5 10th Gen. 2.90GHz
    Memory
    16GB
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    Onboard, no VGA, using a DisplayPort-to-VGA adapter
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    24" Dell
    Hard Drives
    512GB SSD NVMe, 2TB WDC HDD
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    Firefox, Edge
    Antivirus
    Windows Defender/Microsoft Security
Gen 4 with USB-C is better -- anyway depends on how much data you need to backup from NAS to other storager.
My Gen 3 NVMe is capable of 3500 megabytes per second, and achieves that speed when plugged into a PCI-e Gen 3 or 4 slot on a PC.

In the 10Gbps enclosure that connects to USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 either via a standard type A connector or a Type-C connector, the speeds are the same, just a bit over 1,000 megabytes per second. How could a Gen 4 NVMe perform better, the limiting factor is the 10Gbps USB 3 speed?
 

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    Beelink SEI8
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    Intel Core i5-8279u
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    AZW SEI
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    32GB DDR4 2666Mhz
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    Intel Iris Plus 655
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    Intel SST
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    Asus ProArt PA278QV
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    2560x1440
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    512GB NVMe
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    NA
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    500/50
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    Mini PC used for testing Windows 11.
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    Windows 10 Pro
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    Custom
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    Ryzen 9 5900x
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    Asus Rog Strix X570-E Gaming
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    64GB DDR4-3600
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    EVGA GeForce 3080 FT3 Ultra
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    Onboard
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    ASUS TUF Gaming VG27AQ. ASUS ProArt Display PA278QV 27” WQHD
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    2560x1440
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    2TB WD SN850 PCI-E Gen 4 NVMe
    2TB Sandisk Ultra 2.5" SATA SSD
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    Fractal Meshify S2 in White
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    Dark Rock Pro CPU cooler, 3 x 140mm case fans
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    Logitech G9 Laser Mouse
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    500/50
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Guys the reason im looking to replace the Lacie drive is its 3 years old, the NAS has 2 4TB drives on SHR which are backed up to the Lacie drive but im looking a faster back up drive so thought an NVME M.2 SSD in an enclosure would be the way to go TBH i am open to all your recommendations, as im sure you have figured out im a computer novice.
 

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    HP Zbook
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    Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8850H CPU @ 2.60GHz 2.59 GHz
    Motherboard
    HP 842D
    Memory
    32GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Nvidia Quadro P3200
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 980 1TB M.2
    Toshiba KXG50ZNV512G M.2
    Crucial P5 Plus 2TB M.2
    Mouse
    MX Master 3
    Internet Speed
    500MBPS
    Browser
    Chrome, Edge
    Antivirus
    Windows defender
One thing to check, will the NAS device accept the NVMe drives or will adapters be needed? I just received a package of 2 adapters for mounting 2.5" drives in a place for 3.5" drives.
The NVME SSD will be used in an enclosure which will be plugged into the NAS which has 2 USB 3.0 ports
 

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  • OS
    Windows 11 pro
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    Laptop
    Manufacturer/Model
    HP Zbook
    CPU
    Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8850H CPU @ 2.60GHz 2.59 GHz
    Motherboard
    HP 842D
    Memory
    32GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Nvidia Quadro P3200
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 980 1TB M.2
    Toshiba KXG50ZNV512G M.2
    Crucial P5 Plus 2TB M.2
    Mouse
    MX Master 3
    Internet Speed
    500MBPS
    Browser
    Chrome, Edge
    Antivirus
    Windows defender
@Bikeit

It's NOT worth.
I am running a home NAS. main bottle necks is the port (USB, Cat5/6). speed of SATA3 or NVMe ports are much higher than these bottle necks. i.e. SATA3 is enough.

you can add the NVMe SSD internally. but still port of NAS (USB3 or Cat5/6) is key bottle-neck. Hence I wouldn't spend $$$ on NVMe SSD for NAS.

speed
cat5/6 port, upto 1/10 Gbps
USB3, upto 5 Gbps (USB2, max 480 Mbps)
SATA3, 6Gb/s port. NVMe 5X -6X of SATA.
 

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    NVMe SSD/SATA SSD
@Bikeit

It's NOT worth.
I am running a home NAS. main bottle necks is the port (USB, Cat5/6). speed of SATA3 or NVMe ports are much higher than these bottle necks. i.e. SATA3 is enough.

you can add the NVMe SSD internally. but still port of NAS (USB3 or Cat5/6) is key bottle-neck. Hence I wouldn't spend $$$ on NVMe SSD for NAS.

speed
cat5/6 port, upto 1/10 Gbps
USB3, upto 5 Gbps (USB2, max 480 Mbps)
SATA3, 6Gb/s port. NVMe 5X -6X of SATA.
The NVME SSD isnt for the NAS it will be used for an external backup of the NAS
 

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  • OS
    Windows 11 pro
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    HP Zbook
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    Intel(R) Core(TM) i7-8850H CPU @ 2.60GHz 2.59 GHz
    Motherboard
    HP 842D
    Memory
    32GB
    Graphics Card(s)
    Nvidia Quadro P3200
    Hard Drives
    Samsung 980 1TB M.2
    Toshiba KXG50ZNV512G M.2
    Crucial P5 Plus 2TB M.2
    Mouse
    MX Master 3
    Internet Speed
    500MBPS
    Browser
    Chrome, Edge
    Antivirus
    Windows defender
my point, only internal use of the NVMe SSD is worth.
any external use, then its port speed will be a bottleneck. (in your case, where is the USB3 port of external enclosure).

(you can try a USB-C port, 10Gbps, of enclosure. but it's still much slower than NVMe Gen3 speed. no need to say Gen4 speed)
 

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My Gen 3 NVMe is capable of 3500 megabytes per second, and achieves that speed when plugged into a PCI-e Gen 3 or 4 slot on a PC.

In the 10Gbps enclosure that connects to USB 3.2 Gen 2x2 either via a standard type A connector or a Type-C connector, the speeds are the same, just a bit over 1,000 megabytes per second. How could a Gen 4 NVMe perform better, the limiting factor is the 10Gbps USB 3 speed?
USB3 is of course the limiting factor -but I mentioned USB-C which again is much faster.

Cheers
jimbo
 

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USB3 is of course the limiting factor -but I mentioned USB-C which again is much faster.

Cheers
jimbo
USB-C is simply the name of the connector type. The protocol that it supports is what determines it's speed. This universal connector can support USB 2.0, USB 3 (3.1, 3.2, 4) and also Thunderbolt 3 and 4. USB-C "can" be faster if you have the right protocol support. But just merely using USB-C over a Type A cable doesn't make it faster.

I'm pretty sure that Synology DS720+ is running USB 3.0 limited to 5Gbps. So, theoretical max here would be 625 MB/sec....assume you will get about 85% of max, that's about 530 Megabytes per second.

On my current desktop, my USB 3.2 ports are 10Gbps, and my USB-C port is also 10Gbps. Hence now it gets about 2x that of 5Gbps, and maxes out between 1,000 and 1,200 Megabyte per second. There is 0 speed improvement with USB-C in this case over my standard USB 3.2 Gen 2 type A cable.

With USB 3.2 Gen 2 x 2, you can get up to 20Gbps, and with TB3 you can get up to 40Gbps, and USB4 could get 80-120Gbps, yadda, yadda, yadda.

But the point here, is that with the DS720+ and USB 3.0, you are going to max out around 550 Megabytes per seconds with any NVMe drive in a USB type enclosure. At that point, it's not really even advantageous to use NVMe over a standard SATA SSD. They certainly would be 0 advantage going from PCIe Gen 3 to Gen 4 on the NVMe drive...unless you were going to use it for another purpose later.
 

My Computers

System One System Two

  • OS
    Windows 11 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Beelink SEI8
    CPU
    Intel Core i5-8279u
    Motherboard
    AZW SEI
    Memory
    32GB DDR4 2666Mhz
    Graphics Card(s)
    Intel Iris Plus 655
    Sound Card
    Intel SST
    Monitor(s) Displays
    Asus ProArt PA278QV
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440
    Hard Drives
    512GB NVMe
    PSU
    NA
    Case
    NA
    Cooling
    NA
    Keyboard
    NA
    Mouse
    NA
    Internet Speed
    500/50
    Browser
    Edge
    Antivirus
    Defender
    Other Info
    Mini PC used for testing Windows 11.
  • Operating System
    Windows 10 Pro
    Computer type
    PC/Desktop
    Manufacturer/Model
    Custom
    CPU
    Ryzen 9 5900x
    Motherboard
    Asus Rog Strix X570-E Gaming
    Memory
    64GB DDR4-3600
    Graphics card(s)
    EVGA GeForce 3080 FT3 Ultra
    Sound Card
    Onboard
    Monitor(s) Displays
    ASUS TUF Gaming VG27AQ. ASUS ProArt Display PA278QV 27” WQHD
    Screen Resolution
    2560x1440
    Hard Drives
    2TB WD SN850 PCI-E Gen 4 NVMe
    2TB Sandisk Ultra 2.5" SATA SSD
    PSU
    Seasonic Focus 850
    Case
    Fractal Meshify S2 in White
    Cooling
    Dark Rock Pro CPU cooler, 3 x 140mm case fans
    Mouse
    Logitech G9 Laser Mouse
    Keyboard
    Corsiar K65 RGB Lux
    Internet Speed
    500/50
    Browser
    Chrome
    Antivirus
    Defender.
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