I'm SO confused as to Macrium Differential / Incremental Backups vs Full Backups

CSharpDev · Dec 20, 2023

So every month I make 1 full system image backup of Windows 11. This I understand how it works

But I am thinking about having the XML file do 1 weekly differential backup beside the 1 monthly full backup

So say I have 1 full backup from the 10th of December 2023. I also will have 1 weekly differential from the 17th of December 2023.

If I want to deploy the system image backup, and let's say that something(s) went wrong in between the 10th and 17th of December, can I skip the differential backup, and just deploy the full sys img backup?

Vice versa, if I want to go back to the state of my PC on the 17th of December 2023, do I choose the differential backup file in Macrium PE?

How does this work?

Ghot · Dec 20, 2023

@CSharpDev

A lot depends on how much data (used space), you have on the C:\ drive.
I have about 30GB used space on the C:\ drive, so I only do full backups.

Note: I install games and other large programs on my storage drive, instead of my C:\ drive.

Backup = 1 minute 30 seconds
Restore = 2 minutes

In my opinion, the only real need for incremental or differential backups, is if there a "lot" of data on the C:\ drive.
With a small amount of data (used space), backups and restores are so fast, you can always just do full backups.

Macrium Reflect User Guide...

https://updates.macrium.com/reflect/v8/user_guide/macrium_reflect_v8.0_user_guide.pdf

Bree · Dec 20, 2023

CSharpDev said:
How does this work?

A full image is everything on the PC as it was at the point in time the image was made.

A differential is all the changes since the last Full image.

An Incremental is just those changes made since the last Full or Differential image.

If you have a Full and a series of daily Incrementals, then to restore the image as it stood on the last incremental you need the Full image and all the Incrementals up to that last one. Choose that last Incremental as the image to restore, the Full and all changes up to that Incremental will be restored. If you wanted to go back to how the PC stood on the 2nd day after the Full, then choose the 2nd Incremental as the one to be restored.

If you have made a Full followed by a series of Differentials, then the choice of day to go back to works the same way. The only difference is that you only need the Full and the one Differential for the day you wish to restore.

You can mix using Incrementals and Differentials, but may get confusing keeping track of which ones you need to keep.

Say you make a Full on the 1st of each month, and Incrementals on days 2 - 6, then a Differential on day 7, repeating this for the whole month. You will be able to restore the PC as it stood on any day of the month. To restore, for example, Day 12, then you'd select the Incremental from Day 12 as the image to restore. Reflect would restore using the Full (Day 1), one Differential (Day 7), and all the Incrementals from Days 8 to 12.

antspants · Dec 20, 2023

Good question, great answers, thanks

kelper · Dec 20, 2023

I find on my modestly-specced laptop that the incremental takes just as long as a full backup so I always do a full backup.

pparks1 · Dec 20, 2023

kelper said:
I find on my modestly-specced laptop that the incremental takes just as long as a full backup so I always do a full backup.

I usually just do full occasional backups myself. I don't store much actual "data" on my workstation, so I don't run backups frequently.

Incrementals will save you disk space however on your storage device where you are keeping your backups.

wiganken · Dec 20, 2023

pparks1 said:
Incrementals will save you disk space however

As I understand it the problem with incremental backups is that it results in many small images and all of them are needed for a full restore. If any one of these images is corrupt then the restore cannot work. I know this can apply to Differential images but there is more risk with Incrementals due to the larger number of images created and needed for restore.

Bree · Dec 20, 2023

wiganken said:
As I understand it the problem with incremental backups is that it results in many small images.....

That s the big advantage of Incrementals. A backup set of a Full and a series of Incrementals is always smaller than the same set made using Differentials.

wiganken said:
....and all of them are needed for a full restore. If any one of these images is corrupt then the restore cannot work. I know this can apply to Differential images but there is more risk with Incrementals due to the larger number of images created and needed for restore.

While all that is true, I have never yet encountered a corrupt image file, Full, Incremental or Differential. I verify them on creation, and as a precaution I do copy all my backup images to a 2nd backup drive, but I've not yet needed to call on the backups of my backups.

kelper · Dec 20, 2023

People tell me that I am over-cautious and that my precautions are unnecessary, they will never be needed. I have extra batteries, candles, haggis, whisky, water, propane cannisters and other things stored in the garage. Indeed I hope they won't be needed but If they are I'll be glad of my foresight.

My car seat belts have never saved my life, should I remove them?

Anibor_11 · Dec 20, 2023

Ghot said:
@CSharpDev

In my opinion, the only real need for incremental or differential backups, is if there a "lot" of data on the C:\ drive.
With a small amount of data (used space), backups and restores are so fast, you can always just do full backups.

I agree. I keep all important data in an external USB disk, and backup it with a file synchronizer. I do full image backups of the whole disk once a month.

CSharpDev · Dec 20, 2023

Bree said:
That s the big advantage of Incrementals. A backup set of a Full and a series of Incrementals is always smaller than the same set made using Differentials.

While all that is true, I have never yet encountered a corrupt image file, Full, Incremental or Differential. I verify them on creation, and as a precaution I do copy all my backup images to a 2nd backup drive, but I've not yet needed to call on the backups of my backups.

Do you trust Macrium's auto-verification? I always have it enabled.

hsehestedt · Dec 20, 2023

CSharpDev said:
Do you trust Macrium's auto-verification? I always have it enabled.

I trust it completely. A comparison is a very simple operation: Take a snapshot, create the backup from the snapshot, then compare the backup and the snapshot to verify that they are identical.

Bree · Dec 20, 2023

CSharpDev said:
Do you trust Macrium's auto-verification? I always have it enabled.

When Macrium makes an image it calculates an MD5 hash from the data while it is being stored, then saves that hash in the image. Verification reads the image and calculates a hash from the data it reads. If the two match the the file has been verified as a complete and correct image of all the data that was written to it.

Understanding Image Verification Failures - Knowledgebase 8.0 - Macrium Reflect Knowledgebase

knowledgebase.macrium.com

Quandary · Dec 20, 2023

Ghot said:
@CSharpDev

A lot depends on how much data (used space), you have on the C:\ drive.
I have about 30GB used space on the C:\ drive, so I only do full backups.

Note: I install games and other large programs on my storage drive, instead of my C:\ drive.

Backup = 1 minute 30 seconds
Restore = 2 minutes

In my opinion, the only real need for incremental or differential backups, is if there a "lot" of data on the C:\ drive.
With a small amount of data (used space), backups and restores are so fast, you can always just do full backups.

With having programs on a storage device do you also perform full backups of that media? If not is there a risk to lost/incorrect registry entries with a restore of the OS to a point before the install/upgrade of a program? Here is an timeline:

Start of week 1: Full OS backup
During week 1: installed a new program & updated an existing program
During week 1: an OS update that went wrong
Restore OS from week 1.
Seems the registry entries for the new program would be lost. A new install would resolve but fiddling with customization would be needed. The updated program might be OK., but any configuration changes may be lost.

Ghot · Dec 20, 2023

Quandary said:
With having programs on a storage device do you also perform full backups of that media?

In a way, yes...

I use Karen's Replicator to copy whatever I put on Disk1... to Disk2.

I use Macrium Reflect to "backup" my Win 10 and Win 11 installs...

Quandary · Dec 20, 2023

@Ghot Hmm, you added to my confusion, or poor understanging of Windows.

You above posting & images would suggest that if you installed a program on Win 11 and switched to the Win 10 install that you would be able to run that program without any issues. What about all the registry entries created when the program was installed on Win 11 that are not available on Win 11?

RealBeast · Dec 20, 2023

kelper said:
People tell me that I am over-cautious and that my precautions are unnecessary, they will never be needed. I have extra batteries, candles, haggis, whisky, water, propane cannisters and other things stored in the garage. Indeed I hope they won't be needed but If they are I'll be glad of my foresight.

My car seat belts have never saved my life, should I remove them?

IMO you cannot be over-cautious with computer backups, I know a lot of people that have lost precious family data because they relied on a single USB book that got unplugged during a write.

Seatbelts? I'd go with 5 point restraints!

Ghot · Dec 20, 2023

Quandary said:
@Ghot Hmm, you added to my confusion, or poor understanging of Windows.

You above posting & images would suggest that if you installed a program on Win 11 and switched to the Win 10 install that you would be able to run that program without any issues. What about all the registry entries created when the program was installed on Win 11 that are not available on Win 11?

I dunno how.... but it works.

I think once I "start" the program for the first time... it does the registry entries.

Most of the games I have installed on the storage drive are older games, except Tower of Time.
And the few programs I installed there are pretty basic.

callisto · Dec 20, 2023

CSharpDev said:
Do you trust Macrium's auto-verification? I always have it enabled.

I've read somewhere that if the auto-verification fails, there is definitely something wrong with the image. On the other hand if the auto-verification is successful, it does not guarantee to have a perfectly working image. As a result I never verify my images, I think the best verification is to actually perform a restore if you are really confident about your system. I don't do that for every image, but once every other month, and certainly after a Macrium update.

Ghot · Dec 20, 2023

CSharpDev said:
Do you trust Macrium's auto-verification? I always have it enabled.

I don't use the auto-verification.
I just do it manually after I make the backup.

I'm SO confused as to Macrium Differential / Incremental Backups vs Full Backups

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