Arbitrarily, Win 11 will not connect to the GPU card but only the integrated GPU

nunya · Jul 20, 2023

As per title, though this can't be duplicated as it appears completely random. Sometimes if I boot the system from a cold state, it won't load into my 7900XTX and load the radeon integrated GPU instead, then it may take 1 to 3 reboots to get it back. When the system is running off the primary GPU and I need to reboot for, say, software or driver install, it'll load the integrated GPU instead, resulting in additional reboots to get it back.

I do not know if this is an issue with Win 11 or the hardware. As stated, it's not something I can just duplicate. When it does happen, there is no trace of the 7900XTX even listed, as it's not in device manager.

My question, should it happen again, is there something I can do in Win 11 that might give clues as to it being a Win 11 or hardware issue that anyone knows of?
Also, how is the system able to run off the integrated GPU when it is connected to the primary GPU? How is the integrated GPU routed through the system, then through the primary GPU?

glasskuter · Jul 20, 2023

Of course it can be a windows issue, but if you do not even see the gpu in device manager during these times, I'd be looking at its power or the gpu itself.
Specs on that GPU say it uses 355w of power & requires a minimum of 800w psu. Although you have a 850w PSU you use some power hungry hardware. One site stated that motherboard alone to pull 76 watts at idle but 198 watts at full load. Add in your ram, drives, cooling, CPU, and whether you're over clocking or not and it could be your PSU is not large enough. It could also be a defect of the GPU.

Have you calculated the total power load? Use one of the online power supply calculators to get a better idea. In fact, use more than one to see if the calculations are the same. Have you reseated the GPU and verified the 2x8pin power connectors are making good connection.

(Sorry about the turtle. I've cried every time it's happened to me.)

nunya · Jul 20, 2023

glasskuter said:
Of course it can be a windows issue, but if you do not even see the gpu in device manager during these times, I'd be looking at its power or the gpu itself.
Specs on that GPU say it uses 355w of power & requires a minimum of 800w psu. Although you have a 850w PSU you use some power hungry hardware. One site stated that motherboard alone to pull 76 watts at idle but 198 watts at full load. Add in your ram, drives, cooling, CPU, and whether you're over clocking or not and it could be your PSU is not large enough. It could also be a defect of the GPU.

Have you calculated the total power load? Use one of the online power supply calculators to get a better idea. In fact, use more than one to see if the calculations are the same. Have you reseated the GPU and verified the 2x8pin power connectors are making good connection.

(Sorry about the turtle. I've cried every time it's happened to me.)

Each calculator i used prior to purchase sat around 700W. Even the BuildPC website had it calculated at like 750W, so I figured going to 850W was a safe bet. The wattage observation is a good point, I'll contemplate that further.

bobkn · Jul 20, 2023

As far as I know, it isn't possible to run the iGPU through the discrete graphics card in a desktop PC.

Corrections would be welcome.

I imagine it's some oddity of the AMD drivers that are mis-reporting the real situation.

One check would be to run a graphics benchmark. The 7900 XTX should have a great deal more performance than would be possible with the iGPU.

Does the motherboard's BIOS settings include an option to disable the iGPU? (Such a setting is present in my Asus Z690 motherboard.)

nunya · Jul 21, 2023

bobkn said:
As far as I know, it isn't possible to run the iGPU through the discrete graphics card in a desktop PC.

Corrections would be welcome.

I imagine it's some oddity of the AMD drivers that are mis-reporting the real situation.

One check would be to run a graphics benchmark. The 7900 XTX should have a great deal more performance than would be possible with the iGPU.

Does the motherboard's BIOS settings include an option to disable the iGPU? (Such a setting is present in my Asus Z690 motherboard.)

I've run all kinds of benchmarks on the 7900XTX and it does everything as expected. Though, when it does show integrated graphics instead, you can tell immediately something isn't right, even scrolling down web pages is painful. Maybe it's a driver thing.... When this issue arose at one point, I did go into the BIOS and disabled the iGPU, and the screen was blank, couldn't get into windows or anything because I couldn't see anything. Even making the 7900XTX and the sole GPU in BIOS didn't do anything. I still ended up rebooting a couple of times to get it all back.

Another bizarre "electrons doing their own thing".

Dru2 · Jul 21, 2023

Please check the back of your PC and make sure the monitor is connected directly to the 7900 and NOT the motherboard....

To use the 7900XTX the monitor needs to be connected to it, not the above.

SlicEnDicE · Jul 21, 2023

I100% blame the AMD Adrenalin driver/software and that the fact you have not just one but two quite recent AMD components related to graphics.

On my Laptop I've had so many issues with AMD drivers that it's ridiculous. And this is with only an iGPU of Vega class, the latest dGPUs are even worse to my knowledge. Tried tens of different driver versions, until I found one that works good enough. Still have features missing, but at least it's stable. The laptop manufacturer driver works good though, except it does not support Adrenalin software which I want to use in order to get performance counters during 3D tasks.

I recommend you find one driver version that works flawlessly on your system and then block Windows and Adrenalin software from even checking for GPU updates, yet alone, update the drivers.

Also make sure Windows has completed any updates completely with no loose ends still roaming around before updating GPU drivers. It is known issue that the Adrenalin driver can corrupt your system if some Windows update is still in process.

Hope this helps.

Dru2 · Jul 21, 2023

SlicEnDicE said:
I100% blame the AMD Adrenalin driver/software and that the fact you have not just one but two quite recent AMD components related to graphics.

That's utterly bull! And the OP is NOT talking about a laptop. This is strictly a desktop. See their system specs.

Anyway, I've been using ATI (AMD) GPUs and drivers (to obviously include the Adrenalin drivers) on desktop builds since 1999 and have never experienced the issue the OP is stating with any build. I'm running the Adrenalin drivers now, and that issues isn't there.

That said, I've never run an AMD build, but still....

Again, suggest the OP check their monitor is connected to the AMD GPU, and not the motherboard's port.

SlicEnDicE · Jul 21, 2023

Dru2 said:
That's utterly bull! And the OP is NOT talking about a laptop. This is strictly a desktop. See their system specs.

It's not bull...I have many friends with both Intel and AMD builds with latest Radeon cards and they've all had at least minor issues with the drivers. Also there are a lot of reports of similar issues over the internet.

Dru2 · Jul 21, 2023

SlicEnDicE said:
It's not bull...I have many friends with both Intel and AMD builds with latest Radeon cards and they've all had at least minor issues with the drivers. Also there are a lot of reports of similar issues over the internet.

Having "minor issues" and having what the OP describes is galaxies apart.

I've had "minor issues" with drivers myself, that happens. I've never had or seen that one until posted here. Show me the "common" issue similar to the OP you say is posted on the internet?

SlicEnDicE · Jul 21, 2023

Dru2 said:
Having "minor issues" and having what the OP describes is galaxies apart.

Also "at least minor issues" and "minor issues" is galaxies apart. I've seen situations where Windows doesn't even boot after Adrenalin has been installed.

Dru2 · Jul 21, 2023

SlicEnDicE said:
I've seen situations where Windows doesn't even boot after Adrenalin has been installed.

I've seen Windows not boot for a myriad of reasons, so... ??? Stuff happens.

At any rate we're talking about the current issue the OP has, not whether the Adrenalin drivers causes Windows to not boot. With that, I'll stick to the issue at hand... the OP's "switching GPU's".

glasskuter · Jul 21, 2023

Dru2 said:
OP check their monitor is connected to the AMD GPU, and not the motherboard's port.

Good point. I should not have made the assumption that the OP would have known the correct port to use. @Dru2, since you are a hardware guy, clarify something for me. I'm thinking out loud here.

IF his monitor is connected to his discrete GPU, he says the GPU disappears in device manager when he boots or restarts. At this point where he thinks he's connecting to the integrated graphics, as @bobkn says he's actually not because he has no cable connected to the motherboard port. He's still connecting through his GPU just as low resolution. IMO, that could point directly to either one of 3 things:

1. the driver/software running the GPU is not reporting to the bios that the graphics card is actually there,
2. the way he has UEFI bios set to recognize his graphics,
3. or some strange fault with the GPU itself (or even his mobo) when power fluctuations change during a restart that it is not being recognized as being present.

Would I be incorrect here?

Dru2 · Jul 21, 2023

glasskuter said:
Good point. I should not have made the assumption that the OP would have known the correct port to use. @Dru2, since you are a hardware guy, clarify something for me. I'm thinking out loud here.

IF his monitor is connected to his discrete GPU, he says the GPU disappears in device manager when he boots or restarts. At this point where he thinks he's connecting to the integrated graphics, as @bobkn says he's actually not because he has no cable connected to the motherboard port. He's still connecting through his GPU just as low resolution. IMO, that could point directly to either one of 3 things:

1. the driver/software running the GPU is not reporting to the bios that the graphics card is actually there,
2. the way he has UEFI bios set to recognize his graphics,
3. or some strange fault with the GPU itself (or even his mobo) when power fluctuations change during a restart that it is not being recognized as being present.

Would I be incorrect here?

The way, I understand things, per my experience with "Intel" boards only as I've never used AMD boards and CPUs,

1) Understand it is the motherboard via the BIOS that determines whether the OS see a hardware device or not. If the motherboard doesn't see the hardware, Windows can't see or use it, regardless of whether there is a driver installed or not. Anything directly connected to the motherboard is hardware. And here the motherboard is in charge.

2) We assume his configuration, but I've seen nothing to prove or disprove of percieved configuration.

3) Where the OP is still getting video, I think we can pretty much rule out any PS issues.

At the end of the day, I'm not aware of any desktop motherboard that switches between iGPU (for CPUs that have them) and dedicated GPU. I also say that because in order the use the iGPU, the monitor would HAVE to be connected to the motherboard as that is where the signal from the iGPU would come from. Also that the dedicated GPU would not get a signal from the iGPU.

Again, this is with a "desktop" system. Laptop designs work differently where an iGPU and dedicated GPU reside in the same unit.

As explained above is why I question where the monitor is connected to. Await the OPs answer here.

If I've missed something or misunderstood your questions (and I'm sure I did), please clarify

SlicEnDicE · Jul 21, 2023

Dru2 said:
I've seen Windows not boot for a myriad of reasons, so... ??? Stuff happens.

At any rate we're talking about the current issue the OP has, not whether the Adrenalin drivers causes Windows to not boot. With that, I'll stick to the issue at hand... the OP's "switching GPU's".

Wrong. OPs issue is that the dGPU sometimes disappears from the system all together. Not that they are switching GPUs.

But you do what you gotta do. I'm out...

glasskuter · Jul 21, 2023

Dru2 said:
with "Intel" boards only

Yeah, me too. I've had little experience with AMD machines having both AMD igpu and AMD GPU. I've dealt with a lot of mixed brand GPU but always using Intel boards.
Seems we both are Intel guys/gals. Hey, we agree on something. :wink:

Dru2 · Jul 21, 2023

@glasskuter,

I should also add that in the BIOS, whether you enable or disable the iGPU, has no effect on the dedicated GPU if that is where the monitor is connected to. However, if the monitor is connected to the motherboard, the iGPU in the BIOS would need to be enabled, otherwise the PC would get no video, even with a dedicated GPU installed. In order to get video from the dedicated GPU, the monitor must be connected there. Period.

With that one other suggestion to the OP is to ensure the monitor is connected to their 7900XTX and disable the iGPU in the BIOS.

SlicEnDicE · Jul 21, 2023

Looking at the hardware specs for this computer, I have a suspicion the problem could be caused by some high temperature on some component. And that component does not switch properly during a reboot. What kind of confirms this is that it is very difficult to reproduce, but when this issue happens, it requires several reboots/reposts to get all devices back online. During these reboots, the system has had enough time to cool down and normal chipset switching can occur again. it does not have to be a chip, but it could also be one capacitor or other component that gets a bit warmer than it is supposed to get, which can cause some voltage changes that are big enough, so the system partially lose the dGPU.

This case/system is very small, uses AIO cooling with single fan and the case has only one extra fan to pull out air. Because of this, there are a lot of components that normally get cooling when CPU air cooling is provided, will never even see a small breeze.

It would help a lot if we could get a list of all temperature readings during high GPU and CPU usage for a longer time. What also would help, for now, is a screenshot of your reliability history to see if there are many red flags.

Dru2 · Jul 21, 2023

but the OP said....

nunya said:
Sometimes if I boot the system from a cold state, it won't load into my 7900XTX and load the radeon integrated GPU instead, then it may take 1 to 3 reboots to get it back. When the system is running off the primary GPU and I need to reboot for, say, software or driver install, it'll load the integrated GPU instead, resulting in additional reboots to get it back.

Also, how is the system able to run off the integrated GPU when it is connected to the primary GPU? How is the integrated GPU routed through the system, then through the primary GPU?

That certainly doesn't read as a temperature issue

Certainly, reads as a hardware / configuration issue though

This is also another clue (that I missed the first time) but explained in my post to @glasskuter.....

nunya said:
When this issue arose at one point, I did go into the BIOS and disabled the iGPU, and the screen was blank, couldn't get into windows or anything because I couldn't see anything. Even making the 7900XTX and the sole GPU in BIOS didn't do anything.

That sounds like the monitor IS connected to the motherboard as opposed to 7900XTX GPU.

bobkn · Jul 21, 2023

Dru2 said:
Please check the back of your PC and make sure the monitor is connected directly to the 7900 and NOT the motherboard....

View attachment 65235

To use the 7900XTX the monitor needs to be connected to it, not the above.

If the monitor is connected to one of the motherboard's graphics ports, the discrete graphics card should never provide the signal.

AFAIK, the signal from the discrete GPU can't be sent to the motherboard's port.

I don't know how it's managed on a laptop with dual graphics.