Unexplained NVME drive slowdown in win 11 new computer

emanshiu · Jan 6, 2024

So I recently bought a prebuilt PC from Puget (i9 13900K, 128 MB ram, 4090 , 3 4tb sabrent rocket m.2) , expecting it to be blazing fast in transfer speeds, I tested it and it was transferring between 3-5 gigabytes (max supposed to be 7 gigs) . after a couple days I noticed some hiccups in windows explorer and when I'm saving big maya files (3 gigs) . So I did some transfer tests and it was showing 350 mb for sec. it's been consistently like that now. Puget are being great and they sent me a new computer thinking maybe the motherboard was damaged or had issues. But the exact same thing happened to that computer. On a whim I installed win 10 in the new computer and have yet to have any of those speed issues. My question is, how to solve this problem in win 11? Or any thoughts at all would be greatly appreciated, thank you!

wiganken · Jan 6, 2024

The computer itself may be fast but what about: -

The write speed of the device you are transferring data to, and
The transfer pathway. i.e. Is it internal NVMe to internal NVMe or Internal NVMe to external HDD/SSD via a slow USB port?

Also have you used CrystalDisk Mark to check disk speeds?

Rollback_Jockey · Jan 6, 2024

This subject is being discussed elsewhere in a number of threads. WIN 11 is broken at a kernel level.

glasskuter · Jan 6, 2024

Welcome to the forum @emanshiu. Would you please say which model 4tb sabrent rocket m.2 drives you are using and some screenshots of your tests. Your mobo model would be of help as well. (you can save us from having to ask for this info in the future if you will completely fill out your computer specs in your user profile on the forum)

I'm asuming with a setup like yours you are using PRO. Are you using bitlocker?
(Sounds like a super computer, by the way. Congrats.)

emanshiu said:
On a whim I installed win 10 in the new computer and have yet to have any of those speed issues.

I'm not a system builder but I know there will still be a lot of variables to consider in your testing results for it to be an apples to apples test. (Am I right in this, hardware guys?)

I'm assuming again that you ran the tests as soon as you clean installed 10 before any third party software was installed. Correct?
Did you use the drivers from Puget/mobo manufacturer when you installed 10 or did you let windows update install the drivers after you clean installed 10? The drivers one receives from windows update are not always 100% the same as the latest one gets from the motherboard manufacturer.
This could only have been a reliable comparison if the drivers were the same, either all from Puget/Mobo manufaturer or all from windows update.

While you were working with 11, did you per chance test your transfer speed in a clean boot state? That would have proven there was no software conflict.

Did you test with all overclocking turned off in both versions of the OS?

Rollback_Jockey said:
This subject is being discussed elsewhere in a number of threads. WIN 11 is broken at a kernel level.

Would you mind referring me to the source of these discussions. I checked MS known issues with 23h2 but nothing listed related to read/writes. I know the issue of slow writes for large file transfers from internal nvme to internal nvme existed when 22h2 was first released but was under the impression it had been fixed long ago. The only recent discussions I can find about slow writes are ones related to usb transfers. I checked the feedback hub, too.

Personally, I do not have but one internal nvme to test. Anyone out there sees this that has a gen4 board and multiple internal gen 4 drives would you run a few read/write large file tests and post your transfer speed results. It would help prove if this is a 11-23h2 problem or point this poster's issue elsewhere.

Flashorn · Jan 6, 2024

As per @glasskuter request, here are mine from my first My Computer .

First, both NVME are Gen 4 and have the Write cashing enabled:

Crystal Disk Mark for both:
C:// is Samsung 990 Pro 2TB (updated firmware last Wednesday)

D:// is Solidigm 2TB

Copying 13GB from D to C drive

Final destination Downloads on C:// drive

Hope this is what you're looking for.

Flashorn · Jan 6, 2024

Just to add to my last post, I Moved the same 13GB file to a External USB drive using a
USB 3 Gen 2 connector
USB drive is a Patriot Supersonic Rage Prime 250GB drive.

emanshiu · Jan 6, 2024

glasskuter said:
Welcome to the forum @emanshiu. Would you please say which model 4tb sabrent rocket m.2 drives you are using and some screenshots of your tests. Your mobo model would be of help as well. (you can save us from having to ask for this info in the future if you will completely fill out your computer specs in your user profile on the forum)

I'm asuming with a setup like yours you are using PRO. Are you using bitlocker?
(Sounds like a super computer, by the way. Congrats.)

I'm not a system builder but I know there will still be a lot of variables to consider in your testing results for it to be an apples to apples test. (Am I right in this, hardware guys?)

I'm assuming again that you ran the tests as soon as you clean installed 10 before any third party software was installed. Correct?
Did you use the drivers from Puget/mobo manufacturer when you installed 10 or did you let windows update install the drivers after you clean installed 10? The drivers one receives from windows update are not always 100% the same as the latest one gets from the motherboard manufacturer.
This could only have been a reliable comparison if the drivers were the same, either all from Puget/Mobo manufaturer or all from windows update.

While you were working with 11, did you per chance test your transfer speed in a clean boot state? That would have proven there was no software conflict.

Did you test with all overclocking turned off in both versions of the OS?

Would you mind referring me to the source of these discussions. I checked MS known issues with 23h2 but nothing listed related to read/writes. I know the issue of slow writes for large file transfers from internal nvme to internal nvme existed when 22h2 was first released but was under the impression it had been fixed long ago. The only recent discussions I can find about slow writes are ones related to usb transfers. I checked the feedback hub, too.

Personally, I do not have but one internal nvme to test. Anyone out there sees this that has a gen4 board and multiple internal gen 4 drives would you run a few read/write large file tests and post your transfer speed results. It would help prove if this is a 11-23h2 problem or point this poster's issue elsewhere.

In terms of the drives, it doesnt matter what they are as I just changed from Sabrent to Kingston, 4 TB drives. They are drive capable of 7gigs/sec. After I changed them , the same issue remains. Keep in mind , that's copying from one drive to another via windows explorer. On a whim I used an app called fast copy to see if the speed was the same. It was not. It was copy files at 4gigs/sec versus the same files via windows explorer at 350mb/sec. So the culprit here looks to be windows explorer. Not sure what o do with that info but there it is. Also, not running bitlocker.

bobkn · Jan 6, 2024

When copying using Windows Explorer, I see large fluctuations in file copying speeds. I don't think that's unusual.

glasskuter · Jan 6, 2024

emanshiu said:
My question is, how to solve this problem in win 11?

Sorry I have nothing encouraging to add. There's not much you can do if the bug that was in late21h2- early 22h2 is back, (or was never fixed in the first place. It was supposed to be addressed by a windows update) I did finally find a few complaints on reddit about the issue still existing in 23H2 but it doesn't seem like those people bothered to post in the feedback hub as the complaints I found were all old. I really do not think MS gets their info from reddit.

I was in hope others with similar gen4 setups would give comparisons. All I can do is encourage anyone to flood the feedback hub about the issue still existing in 23H2. Why don't you do that. Explain it in detail, attaching screenshots of CrystalDiskMark readings of your drives as well as a screenshot of your transfer speed comparing the speeds in both 10 and 11 like @Flashorn did above.The more detailed info you give them the more apt they are to respond. Just saying your transfer speeds are slow is not enough. They want proof. The more upvotes you get helps, too.

One would think with an issue of this magnitude, that MS would be acknowledging that 23H2 is still affected.

Wisewiz · Jan 7, 2024

@Flashorn and @emanshiu

My W11 copy speeds for 17+ GB files from one internal NVMe to another internal NVMe (using W Explorer) start at about 5 GB/s and slow to a final speed of 500+ MB/s. I think that's W11, for sure; not your new PC. This is on my System 1, which is well below the standard of Flashorn's much newer, much higher specs laptop.

emanshiu · Jan 7, 2024

Wisewiz said:
@Flashorn and @emanshiu

My W11 copy speeds for 17+ GB files from one internal NVMe to another internal NVMe (using W Explorer) start at about 5 GB/s and slow to a final speed of 500+ MB/s. I think that's W11, for sure; not your new PC. This is on my System 1, which is well below the standard of Flashorn's much newer, much higher specs laptop.

Yes I've finally deduced that. It's an explorer issue. Now I just wonder if it's worht it to downgrade to win 10. But I only have a yeart before it loses support. Also wonder how I cna test the real worlds performance say using premiere or 3d apps like unreal and Blender.

Flashorn · Jan 8, 2024

emanshiu said:
Now I just wonder if it's worth it to downgrade to win 10

I wouldn't. I had a T7 connected to the Thunderbolt port on this notebook for Storage before I updated
to the Solidigm NVME and I saw speed variations as well. I'm pretty sure the buffer is at fault here. Once
it gets full , the SSDs have to wait for it to empty enough to write to it again. Thus, the speed variations.
There is an option to turn off the Windows buffer but, I haven't tried it. Maybe you could and see if it
improves your transfer speed.

slimothy · Mar 16, 2024

I had significant speed issue with NVME drives on Windows 11 and eventually found bitlocker to be the cause. Windows 11 seems to enable bitlocker by default and it just kills NVME speeds. I had a 990Pro that was testing worse than a 970. Disabled bitlocker and the speed was blazing.

Flashorn · Mar 16, 2024

slimothy said:
I had significant speed issue with NVME drives on Windows 11 and eventually found bitlocker to be the cause. Windows 11 seems to enable bitlocker by default and it just kills NVME speeds. I had a 990Pro that was testing worse than a 970. Disabled bitlocker and the speed was blazing.

If you have Pro version of Windows 11 ; it is not available in Home edition.
Glad to see that you have regained the speed of your drive.

vulcan78 · Apr 13, 2024

I just became a member here to share my experience with this, I recently upgraded the chipset and mobo from Z690 to AM5 and out of precaution I clean installed Win11 on one of the boot drives (I still have Win10 on another boot drive) and I've been reinstalling games in my Epic Games library which require this mini-game where the original installation folder has to be empty so you have to move the existing title to a different drive, start the install, pause the install, close EG client, move the game's folder back, open client resume install. The transfer speed has been expectedly slow moving between the 860 Evo I have but I have another Epic Games folder on a relatively fast M.2 NVME drive, a WD Black SN850X and I was eager to see the transfer speed between that and the Samsung 990 Pro, another fast M.2 NVME drive and the transfer speed is 30mbps? WTF? I have no idea what is going on here so I did a search query and found this thread. So this is a Win11 issue? I was expecting like 5-7gbps transfer speed not 30mbps.

slimothy · Apr 13, 2024

Seems to be a Windows 11 bitlocker issue. DIsabling bitlocker resolved the issue for me. I actually went back to Windows 10 because I really can't stand Windows 11. Weird issues like this and just basically feels a little less responsive

vulcan78 · Apr 13, 2024

slimothy said:
Seems to be a Windows 11 bitlocker issue. DIsabling bitlocker resolved the issue for me. I actually went back to Windows 10 because I really can't stand Windows 11. Weird issues like this and just basically feels a little less responsive

Yes 100% feels less responsive, also as a 32:9 panel owner I really don't like not having the option to put the task-bar on the left side. I am probably going to stay with Win11 however, with my Win10 boot drive, which I essentially upgraded the entire chipset on (12900k to 7800X3D) although everything works I am seeing some performance woes visiting CPU demanding areas in specific titles like in the Ascent, there's this really demanding area called Stimtown which would bring my GPU utilization (4090, DLSS: Balanced, everything maxed 7680x2160 with 32:9 trainer) down to 80% with the older CPU, revisiting this area expecting an improvement I was dismayed to see the same performance. On the Win11 installation I'm at 100% CPU usage here and the FPS difference of 10 FPS, from 50 to 60 with DLSS on quality. That and the auto-HDR feature is useful for titles that don't natively support HDR and I like the new Nvidia App. I also feel that the text is sharper and like certain changes to the UI but this is where the positives end. As you said, it's definitely more sluggish.

Any downside to disabling Bitlocker? I'm looking into it now. Thanks for the reply.

vulcan78 · Apr 13, 2024

slimothy said:
Seems to be a Windows 11 bitlocker issue. DIsabling bitlocker resolved the issue for me. I actually went back to Windows 10 because I really can't stand Windows 11. Weird issues like this and just basically feels a little less responsive

Update:

Bitlocker is already disabled! I don't even know where to begin with this one, 30mbps transfer speed between a WD Black SN850X and a Samsung 990 Pro, both with read and write speeds of 7GB/s.

Update:

Watching the progress window, so quirky behavior, it sits at 30mbps for like the first 20% of the file transfer, then it shot up to 3.5gbps for the remainder of the transfer. No clue.

slimothy · Apr 13, 2024

hmm couldn't even guess then. Are you sure bitlocker is off? Open a command prompt and type "manage-bde -status" Should show that drives are %100 unencrypted. If they are then I'm not sure what else to suggest other than try Windows 10 and see if it's better. I also had my nvme drives randomly disappear with Windows 11 and hasn't happened once with 10 yet.

BobOmb · Apr 13, 2024

What happens if you disable all the security toggles under Windows Security?

Another far out possibility, is write-caching causing this?

This feels like a driver issue if it’s working in 10