Are software Installers just a means to collect data?

TheMystic · Nov 9, 2021

When downloading a program, we often find one or more of the following options:

1. Actual program.exe file.
2. Installer.exe file (much smaller in size).
3. Zip file (for offline installation).

Developers are increasingly using the installer these days that serve no real purpose for the end user. Is this method being used just to collect data on the customer?

For example, if you want to install Macrium Reflect Free edition, you will only be able to download the installer from the site, after going through multiple screens asking for your email address and other information (which can be skipped).

This installer then downloads the actual program and other components and obviously requires an internet connection. Makes me think that this is intended to collect information from the computer that is downloading the program, and we have no control on what all information is collected in the process.

What do you think?

.

jaree1961 · Nov 9, 2021

There is always the devil hidden in the detail, but is it harmless, data collection or a conspiracy theory.
That is a very good million dollar question, and everybody has their own opinion.
Developers use installers a lot of the time, because the average user (and I state "average user") has NO idea how to install, config/setup a program correctly and companies try and simplify the install process.

As the old saying goes "the biggest risk to security and giving away information is "ourselves".

All anybody can do is be vigilant and check out the finer detail before installing anything!

AND IMO, if they want information, they will get it one way or another.
I would be more worried about the information ISP's collect and use!

TheMystic · Nov 9, 2021

jaree1961 said:
because the average user (and I state "average user") has NO idea how to install, config/setup a program correctly and companies try and simplify the install process

I don't think so. How is the installer different from the actual program which can do the exact same thing?

You could argue saying that the installer only downloads and installs specific components necessary for your operating system and hardware configuration. Just like we have on mobile operating systems (both iOS and Android). But is that true?

I don't think that it is the case with most programs. Because if that is the case, why not allow the user to decide what to download. Unlike a mobile device, most users aren't limited by storage space on a laptop or desktop.

In the case of Macrium Reflect, the installer does nothing apart from downloading the actual program.exe file. While it gives additional download options, an installer isn’t required for this purpose.

TigerTom · Nov 9, 2021

Only advantage of a webinstaller is, that it will download the latest version. But for me, I prefer the offline installers (which contain the full program files).

unifex · Nov 9, 2021

TigerTom said:
Only advantage of a webinstaller is, that it will download the latest version. But for me, I prefer the offline installers (which contain the full program files).

I completely agree. I always (well, almost always - sometimes there is no such option, unfortunately) use full, offline installers and install the software offline - as in disconnected from the internet.

Perhaps I should clarify that I do so not because I fear some over-intrusive data collection, quite the opposite, I see nothing on my machine that such an installer could collect that would be perceived as harmful to me in any way. However, I firmly believe in buying a "complete product" that should be installable and working without the internet. Later, sure, it can be allowed to check for an update, but it should work as shipped. If the installer complains and/or stalls due the lack of internet connection, I always think twice whether I really need that software to begin with.

clam1952 · Nov 9, 2021

Unfortunately, these days everyone is assumed to have an internet connection with no data limits and a reliable one at that, if you haven't, you are pretty much limited in what you can install on a PC.
Even supposed offline installers often need to phone home as part of the install process, you can't win.

The-Hive · Nov 9, 2021

I normally download the program, close the browser and anything else open and install. It also depends on how reputable the site is and how worried you are about giving any info away ( if it does).

Bree · Nov 9, 2021

TheMystic said:
In the case of Macrium Reflect, the installer does nothing apart from downloading the actual program.exe file.

Macrium Reflect is perhaps a poor example. The Firefox webinstaller would be a better one.

Macrium's one is not truly a webinstaller. What running the download agent does is to download a full offline installer. It offers a choice of the 32 or 64 bit installer and some option as to what is included in the installer. The option to run the installer after download is just that, an option. You can just un-tick that option and keep the offline installer for use later on this and/or any other PC.

TheMystic · Nov 9, 2021

clam1952 said:
Unfortunately, these days everyone is assumed to have an internet connection with no data limits and a reliable one at that, if you haven't, you are pretty much limited in what you can install on a PC.
Even supposed offline installers often need to phone home as part of the install process, you can't win.

With offline installers, you still have the option to block internet access and yet install the program. It is another matter if the program uses exploits to still connect to the internet.

But with an online installer (or more correctly downloader), you must allow internet access until the time that it downloads the actual program. There should be some reason why developers are adding this extra step, which isn't useful for the end user.

TheMystic · Nov 9, 2021

The-Hive said:
I normally download the program, close the browser and anything else open and install. It also depends on how reputable the site is and how worried you are about giving any info away ( if it does).

You can't use that if the actual program can only be downloaded via the installer.

TheMystic · Nov 9, 2021

Bree said:
Macrium Reflect is perhaps a poor example. The Firefox webinstaller would be a better one.

Macrium's one is not truly a webinstaller. What running the download agent does is to download a full offline installer. It offers a choice of the 32 or 64 bit installer and some option as to what is included in the installer. The option to run the installer after download is just that, an option. You can just un-tick that option and keep the offline installer for use later on this and/or any other PC.

View attachment 13125

The installer (or more correctly downloader) simply downloads the actual program. While it gives options to choose between architecture and additional components, it isn't necessary.

The actual program can be made available to download directly from the website. But there is no such option available.

The installer file (more correctly downloader), is at the very least a tool for the developer to track number of downloads/ installs. It could also be potentially uploading additional information without consent.

Dru2 · Nov 9, 2021

TheMystic said:
When downloading a program, we often find one or more of the following options:

1. Actual program.exe file.
2. Installer.exe file (much smaller in size).
3. Zip file (for offline installation).

Developers are increasingly using the installer these days that serve no real purpose for the end user. Is this method being used just to collect data on the customer?

What do you think?.

I've never given it much thought. I just click the installer and keep it moving.

Yes, one should always be careful, but going overboard only prevents you from enjoying the thing you're trying to enjoy

My two cents.

zooburner · Dec 13, 2021

I often try and get the latest full installer, but I'm fine with installers that download the appropriate software for my computer, especially ones i trust like Macrium.

Almost all software gathers some data on the user I don't think making it an offline installer does not really help there it will often at some point connect and report even if only to check for updates.

Windows does it all the time and gives heaps of information about you, add your browser to that list and probably the bulk of programs on your computer. Your ISP collects every site you visit (and keeps a record) .. of course I could go on, i guess each person must make their own mind up.

PerpetualCycle · Dec 13, 2021

TheMystic said:
When downloading a program, we often find one or more of the following options:

1. Actual program.exe file.
2. Installer.exe file (much smaller in size).
3. Zip file (for offline installation).

Developers are increasingly using the installer these days that serve no real purpose for the end user. Is this method being used just to collect data on the customer?

For example, if you want to install Macrium Reflect Free edition, you will only be able to download the installer from the site, after going through multiple screens asking for your email address and other information (which can be skipped).

This installer then downloads the actual program and other components and obviously requires an internet connection. Makes me think that this is intended to collect information from the computer that is downloading the program, and we have no control on what all information is collected in the process.

What do you think?

.

I think you are a little paranoid. LOL. For Macrium, there are not just executables, but dynamic link libraries that have to be installed and registered, services that need installed, tailoring for your system, required C++ runtime libraries, registering for uninstall, etc. A typical user can't do all of that (practically none of that actually), then also know/remember how to uninstall it all. Macrium really couldn't be installed from a zip file, as is true of lots of applications. Installers do have a real purpose.

We don't have very good privacy laws in the US compared to Europe, though we are getting the benifits to some level in web pages cookie settings transparency, not at the app level with telemetry that is not obvious - that is wherethere is a potential for invasion of privacy. That doesn't have anything to do with installers though.
Cheers

pparks1 · Dec 13, 2021

TheMystic said:
When downloading a program, we often find one or more of the following options:

1. Actual program.exe file.
2. Installer.exe file (much smaller in size).
3. Zip file (for offline installation).

Developers are increasingly using the installer these days that serve no real purpose for the end user. Is this method being used just to collect data on the customer?

For example, if you want to install Macrium Reflect Free edition, you will only be able to download the installer from the site, after going through multiple screens asking for your email address and other information (which can be skipped).

This installer then downloads the actual program and other components and obviously requires an internet connection. Makes me think that this is intended to collect information from the computer that is downloading the program, and we have no control on what all information is collected in the process.

What do you think?

.

I have no concerns with using the stub file downloader from Macrium.

The-Hive · Dec 14, 2021

If any Installers gather Data, IMO the worst ones would be the ones with free software as you don't get anything for nothing

TheMystic · Dec 14, 2021

The-Hive said:
If any Installers gather Data, IMO the worst ones would be the ones with free software as you don't get anything for nothing

Then companies should start replacing 'free' with 'Pay with Data'. Or they are just lying.

ThrashZone · Dec 14, 2021

TheMystic said:
Then companies should start replacing 'free' with 'Pay with Data'. Or they are just lying.

Hi,
I missed the os telemetry thread
Guess you're okay with MS only offering the minimum of basic sending but also making people dig in every mS app and defender to to find all it's sending.
I await more telemetry threads for all these MS apps on 11 and 10 you've hit on reflect a few times already lol :zany:

BrianInEngland · Dec 14, 2021

TheMystic said:
When downloading a program, we often find one or more of the following options:

1. Actual program.exe file.
2. Installer.exe file (much smaller in size).
3. Zip file (for offline installation).

Developers are increasingly using the installer these days that serve no real purpose for the end user. Is this method being used just to collect data on the customer?

For example, if you want to install Macrium Reflect Free edition, you will only be able to download the installer from the site, after going through multiple screens asking for your email address and other information (which can be skipped).

This installer then downloads the actual program and other components and obviously requires an internet connection. Makes me think that this is intended to collect information from the computer that is downloading the program, and we have no control on what all information is collected in the process.

What do you think?

.

You seem to have an unhealthy dislike for Macrium, you have another post on here about it as well. Are you sponsored by another backup software maker?

BunnyJ · Dec 14, 2021

BrianInEngland said:
You seem to have an unhealthy dislike for Macrium, you have another post on here about it as well. Are you sponsored by another backup software maker?

I think you're right.

Are software Installers just a means to collect data?

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