Can't boot from USB

Hi, not sure which forum to post in. Apologies if this is the wrong one.

I want to install dual boot on my new Jumper laptop, which is running Windows 11 version 22H2 build 22621.2134 (please see system spec). This is so that I can install a Vista system to run an old application. I have a Vista system CD.

The laptop has no built-in optical drive, so I have bought an external drive which connects to a USB port. But in the UEFI there is no option to change the boot order so that I can boot from the Vista CD in the optical drive.

I looked at BCDEdit which I see has a parameter /bootsequence. But I don't know how to specify the USB ID this needs, and in any case is this likely to work?

Any help greatly appreciated.

Peter

Hello @peterjo and welcome to ElevenForum.


You're probably having the problem outlined in this MS article... but I'm not sure if this applies to your laptop.




In the updates since May 2023... MS has been "changing things" again.
On a modern, Win 11 compatible computer, the link above has directions on how to apply the revocations and how to "fix" your bootable media. It's related to changes in the BIOS's Secure Boot setting.

I'm not sure your laptop even has Secure Boot.

peterjo said:

Hi, not sure which forum to post in. Apologies if this is the wrong one.

I want to install dual boot on my new Jumper laptop, which is running Windows 11 version 22H2 build 22621.2134 (please see system spec). This is so that I can install a Vista system to run an old application. I have a Vista system CD.

The laptop has no built-in optical drive, so I have bought an external drive which connects to a USB port. But in the UEFI there is no option to change the boot order so that I can boot from the Vista CD in the optical drive.

I looked at BCDEdit which I see has a parameter /bootsequence. But I don't know how to specify the USB ID this needs, and in any case is this likely to work?

Any help greatly appreciated.

Peter

Click to expand...

Rather than using an external drive, it would be better to use a USB Drive (flash drive, jump drive, etc.) as your bootable medium.

Go here for a tutorial on dual booting:


Although it says dual boot windows 11 with windows 10, you can dual boot with any other OS.

Ghot said:

You're probably having the problem outlined in this MS article...

KB5025885: How to manage the Windows Boot Manager revocations for Secure Boot changes associated with CVE-2023-24932 - Microsoft Support

support.microsoft.com

Click to expand...

Sheesh! @Ghot you're fast!

Wynona said:

Sheesh! @Ghot you're fast!

Click to expand...

Not really. I just went through this on my computer... last night. LOL
Not dual booting, but dealing with the Revocations and then fixing my Macrium "bootable" media.

It all started... here, on July 26th.




Short version...
These changes Microsoft is making are going to break all kinds of "bootable media".


Here's Shawn's original post...


Ofc... there's all kinds of "bootable media" and it's all gonna be affected.
But all the different sets of instructions, tend to deal with just one or two kinds of bootable media.

So handling these MS changes are gonna be SNAFU for the foreseeable future.

@peterjo

If all this MS cr*p doesn't affect your laptop... then what you need to do is find the F-key, that opens your "boot menu".
The boot menu, will allow you to choose which bootable device, you want to boot from.


Here's what MY boot menu looks like. Normally, the computer boots from the 1st entry (highlighted).
If I want to boot from my USB stick, I need to choose the UEFI: Corsair Voyager entry.





I could look up what the correct F-key is on your laptop, but my list doesn't show a "Jumper" laptop.

You could create an .iso from the Vista CD and create a bootable USB flash drive.

peterjo said:

Hi, not sure which forum to post in. Apologies if this is the wrong one.

I want to install dual boot on my new Jumper laptop, which is running Windows 11 version 22H2 build 22621.2134 (please see system spec). This is so that I can install a Vista system to run an old application. I have a Vista system CD.

The laptop has no built-in optical drive, so I have bought an external drive which connects to a USB port. But in the UEFI there is no option to change the boot order so that I can boot from the Vista CD in the optical drive.

I looked at BCDEdit which I see has a parameter /bootsequence. But I don't know how to specify the USB ID this needs, and in any case is this likely to work?

Any help greatly appreciated.

Peter

Click to expand...

Sad to say but you can't dual boot Win 11 UEFI - GPT with Win Vista.
New computers requires drivers that are not on the Vista installation DVD.
There are also other issues like Secure boot (maybe it can be disabled on BIOS) and hardware related to boot files.
The solution is to install Vista on a virtual machine under Win 11.

Wow! Thank you all for your quick responses.

Ghot said:

You're probably having the problem outlined in this MS article... but I'm not sure if this applies to your laptop.

KB5025885: How to manage the Windows Boot Manager revocations for Secure Boot changes associated with CVE-2023-24932 - Microsoft Support

support.microsoft.com

Click to expand...

This looks a bit too complicated for me! But also, my Vista CD is something from an ISV years ago, not something I can tinker with?

@Wynona:
But I still don't seem to have the option to boot from a USB. I've seen the tutorial, and allocated the storage, but I can't get it to boot from the optical drive.

@Ghot
After experimentation I found my boot menu key is F7. But only 2 items appeared:
Windows Boot Manager (P: JUMPER 512G)
Enter Setup

The "JUMPER 512G" is the laptop name, Jumper being the manufacturer, and 512GB the SSD size, so I assume this is a custom-made Boot Manager. But there are no bootable devices to move around! Might BCDEdit be able to help if I can find the USB ID?

@Fabler2:
I will try creating an ISO file and Mounting it, though in view of what Megahertz said it looks doubtful whether it will work. Still it's worth a shot. Thank you.

@Megahertz:
Oh. This looks like a show-stopper.
Re your suggestion of using a virtual machine, I have already tried Oracle's VirtualBox, which is what I have been using since the security check on my app CD (it needs to be present when you start to execute) stopped working somehere just after Windows 8.1. Using VirtualBox still works on Windows 10, but on 11 although I could read from the app CD and install it to the guest Vista, when I tried to execute with the CD in the external drive the security check failed. This is what caused me to try dual boot as another way round the problem, but it looks like I may be doomed.

Quite apart from my app problem it seems extraordinary that the manufacturer (Jumper - a Chinese company) would produce a laptop which can't be booted by any external media. I did think it was good value for the spec, but I didn't realise that.... I have emailed them to ask if they have a solution and I will post back here when (or if) I hear from them. And also whether Fabler2's ISO suggestion works.

Added: forgot to say that my laptop does have Secure Boot, and it was enabled. I tried disabling it, and also setting it to Custom rather than Standard, but it had no noticeable effect on the non-availabillity of the USB for boot, so I reverted to the supplied values.

Fabler2 said:

You could create an .iso from the Vista CD and create a bootable USB flash drive.

Click to expand...

This is by far the best solution, and probably also the easiest.

peterjo said:

After experimentation I found my boot menu key is F7. But only 2 items appeared:
Windows Boot Manager (P: JUMPER 512G)
Enter Setup

Click to expand...

You may have to enter the BIOS (setup) and temporarily turn OFF Secure Boot to see the "whole" boot menu.
I had that happen as well... a couple weeks ago.

Or... you can go here, and do all of step 3... exactly as written... This should get your boot menu... back.



Lastly... what's the old application you are trying to run? There may be other ways to run it besides dual booting with Vista.

Well, I tried disabling Secure Boot, but the boot menu stayed the same - no USB. But then, on a whim, I unplugged the external CD drive and plugged in a USB (not a bootable one). And bingo! The USB showed up in the boot menu (with or without Secure Boot disabled). So the CD drive (admittedly a cheap one from Amazon) is clearly not talking the right sort of noises that the boot process likes to hear.

So I will continue with the ISO route, but this time, as Fabler2 suggests, I'll try to create a flash drive with the Vista system on it. Here's hoping.... I'll post the result.

Thank you guys for your help - it's very much appreciated.

Peter

The app that all this is about is "Teach yourself bridge technique, by David Bird". I've found it really good for brushing up on declarer play from time to time. I did contact the publishers, but they have absolutely no interest in re-releasing it - they don't even have any Windows programmers!

Convert the DVD to a iso file and create a USB drive won't work as it won't boot as UEFI.

To make a Win Vista USB boot able drive (minimum size is 4G):

Open a CMD window as administrator and type:

diskpart
list disk (it will list all drives. Identify the USB drive number)
select disk n (replace n by the USB drive number obtained with list disk)
clean
convert mbr
create part primary
select part 1
format fs=fat32 quick
assign
active
exit (to exit diskpart)


If you have a Win Vista installation DVD
Insert the Win Vista installation disk on the ODD, copy all files and folders from the DVD to the USB drive

To make it UEFI boot able you must add the \efi\boot folder


To make it universal (all Win Vista versions), go to \sources on the USB drive and delete \sources\ei.cfg

As I already mentioned, once you select the USB drive using the boot menu (F7) and IF you able to boot from the USB drive (don't think you will) you will be stuck as you won't have mouse and /or keyboard and you won't even be able to see the drive as Vista files don't have USB 3.x, SATA and NVMe drives.
Once again, you can't dual boot Win 11 UEFI - GPT with Win Vista.

@Megahertz: not sure I understand. The detailed instructions you have given should make a bootable Vista USB. But at the end you say (I think) that even if this does boot (though it probably won't) it won't be of any use because Vista doesn't have the necessary drivers. Have I got this right? If so what's the point in doing it?

Is it like this: supposing the mouse and keyboard do work (though you think that's unlikely) I still need the USB to work, because the whole point is that the security check involves the game reading some hidden data on the CD (which is attached via a USB). Even though, as you say, there won't be any USB 3.x drivers, might a USB 2 driver work with a USB 3 device?

I'll try it and see.

The instructions I gave you will make a Win Vista boot able USB drive on a Vista compatible computer.
Your computer isn't Vista compatible that is why I would say it wont even boot in your computer but will on one that is Vista compatible. If it does boot, you wont be able to install (No USB 3,x, SATA or NVMe drivers)
The only chance to have Win Vista on your computer is to have it on a virtual machine.

OK, I understand. Thank you for clarifying.

Since my attempt at setting up a virtual Vista failed, or rather the game's security check didn't work on it, I guess I'm going to have to give up, or at least keep my desktop on Win10 for as long as possible.

Thank you for your guidance.

peterjo​

What is the game that requires a check on the CD?

peterjo said:

The app that all this is about is "Teach yourself bridge technique, by David Bird". I've found it really good for brushing up on declarer play from time to time. I did contact the publishers, but they have absolutely no interest in re-releasing it - they don't even have any Windows programmers!

Click to expand...

...from post #12 above. The publishers are BridgeBase.

You will struggle to get vista to run on there. It might be possible for an experienced enthusiast.