My mice are driving me crazy...again.

Background:
I've had one kind of problem or another with my mice ever since I upgraded to 22h2. My issues happen with any type mouse I use, corded, cordless, different brands. I've tried 5 different mice.
Since 22H2, the only way wheel scroll will work at all is if I use the OSK and enable scroll lock. The smart people here helped me with a vbs script that now runs at startup to enable scroll lock. (I can't understand this as the scroll lock keyboard key should not have any effect at all on mouse scroll, but it does in my system). This workaround solution has worked for me up until now.

Current situation:
Fast forward to several weeks ago. My vbs script is still working. My mouse wheel is still scrolling....except... now some of the time while it will scroll forward/down, but not scroll backward\up. To scroll up I have to use the scroll bar. It will happen system wide. Then out of the blue, scrolling both directions works again (again using different mice) with no rhyme or reason or pattern. I don't have to restart, etc. It might run right for an hour or days, but it always comes back sooner or later even if I cold boot. This just hoo-doos me.

I have done my testing using the same 3 apps, file explorer, Firefox and Edge. When it's happening the issue is present system wide and with the browsers opened to any site.

I've used different usb ports, uninstalled and reinstalled usb controllers, disabled all browser extensions, done SFC, clean boot (yes it happens in clean boot too), and a repair install. The only thing I haven't done is uninstall the Sept. cumulative. (I can't see how the cumulative could be the problem since with scrolllock key enabled, scrolling both directions works part of the time) I'm still on 22621.2428.

I'm hoping 23H2 might fix it. I plan on upgrading using its iso when it's released. Has anyone ever encountered anything like this? Heck, a mouse is one of the simplest devices on a computer.

Heya, Mama G, this is about as weird a problem as I've ever heard.

Out of curiosity, though, this is for your main Dell or the system 2 dell?

And has WU updated the firmware on your machine any time recently as well? I suspect it may be BIOS / UEFI firmware related since it even happens in clean boot (have you tried safe mode)?

Also, are there any Dell specific drivers that might need updating, or else Dell specific programs on your machine that you could see if they have anything to do with mouse control, and disable / uninstall them?

johnlgalt said:

Out of curiosity, though, this is for your main Dell or the system 2 dell?

Click to expand...

You're telling me it's weird. I've been dealing with it for months. To give you an example how weird it is, it had been acting up for days. Today I used remote desktop to access my Windows 10 machine. The minute I exited remote desktop, scroll began working perfectly. It's worked ever since. But it's not tied to RDP because that's the first time I've used RDP in weeks. I never know when it's going to happen or how long it will last.

Yes it's my main system. I have driver updates from WU turned off in group policy. I use Dell Command Update (only Dell app I have installed) to update Dell drivers and bios and use Intel Driver Support Assist to keep Intel drivers current. All up to date. Latest bios was installed in early Sept.

This machine came from Dell with 10 on it in August 2021. I upgraded to 11 one week later from an iso and had no issue with mouse until 22H2. Dell has updated bios 17 times since I got it.

I'll bet a dollar to a donut this is something simple but for life of me I can't think of much I haven't tried except a clean install(Oh, what a horror) . I am religious about keeping old backups from critical times. If 23h2 doesn't fix it, I'll try restoring a backup I made just before 22h2 update. It would be way outdated as I've made a lot of changes since that I have absolutely no record of what I did. But that would be better than a complete clean install. At least my data files are on a separate drive. I could try updating 21h2 to 23h2. Skipping 22h2 might make a difference.

Just now I tried safe mode. Scroll wheel did not work at all until I used OSK to turn on scroll lock. I don't have ethernet cable in this room and am forced to run wireless. Safe mode for me does not activate the wireless adapter. It never has. I never know when the up/down scrolling is going to go haywire so can't stay in safe mode very long waiting for it to happen without internet access .

Well Dell Update (and other third-party driver tools) usually won't update a driver if they consider it equal to the current driver. Or the last update may be corrupt. I would manually go at Dell's Support site, enter the Service Tag and have a look at the drivers. It wouldn't harm to download the chipset drivers and install it, even if you already have that version. Same goes for the firmware. If there is any newer version, even beta one, I would install it to see if it improves compatibility and fixes my issues.

I know yours is a desktop, but I once had a weird problem on a laptop (my system 2). The power supply brick failed, and I bought a replacement on eBay. When the laptop was running on battery no problem, but when I plugged in the cheap power supply, the mouse froze. As soon as I unplugged it, the mouse would work again. So I wonder if your problem might be caused by a duff PSU?

A little trivia. The plural of mouse (the electronic sort) is mouses. The plural of mouse, the rodent, is mice.

Here's a way out left field approach you may or may not wish to try: RamDisk. I noticed on my Windows 10 (not my favourite OS) that after the latest Windows update my mouse seemed jittery like it was running on too much caffeine or something. I tried checking mouse speed, checking the bottom of the mouse for contamination, reinstalling driver, unplugging and replugging, different ports... nothing seemed to help. Then just recently, I inadvertently activated my RamDisk and my whole system works better. My mouse lost the jitters and although everything is smooth and apps open nice and snappy, it feels 'tight'. I know it's a shot in the dark but since you recently installed some fine NVMe in your unit you might give it a go.

Who says?

I agree that this is a weird one and that I am clueless, but based on what you describe, here is a question that pops into my head:

You noted that the keyboard Scroll Lock seems to have some sort of effect on the mouse. When the problem happens, what happens if you simply temporarily unplug the keyboard? Does the mouse still present with the same problem, or does it suddenly go away? If the problem goes away, maybe there is some sort of wonky behavior from the keyboard.

The computer mouse is named after the rodent. Anyone who talks of mouses has probably never come across or read of mice, unless they a just being facetious?

kelper said:

The computer mouse is named after the rodent. Anyone who talks of mouses has probably never come across or read of mice, unless they a just being facetious?

Click to expand...

I have no clue on how they come up with this stuff. But here is a related one:

A flat, thin, round object is called a "disk". But for optical media such as a CD, DVD, Blu-Ray, etc. it is spelled "disc" (with a "c"). Why?

Mouses is a common mistake of us foreigners that compare the word to our own language and forget about the weird English/German foot-feet, goose-geese, loose-lice etc. Even if we realize our mistake we just don't bother correcting it while speaking hopefully the others didn't notice.

spapakons said:

Mouses is a common mistake of us foreigners that compare the word to our own language and forget about the weird English/German foot-feet, mouse-mice, loose-lice etc. Even if we realize our mistake we just don't bother correcting it while speaking hopefully the others didn't notice.

Click to expand...

Are you Greek? I used to work on cruise ships in the Mediterranean and often visited Greece. All the crew and tourists mispronouned the name of your currency (before the Euro) the locals just accepted this, neer complained and never corrected their customers.

When we visited Crete, even the deck officers, in their announcements, referred to the port as Ag-ee-oss Nik-o-lay-oss. I wonder why the pilots and officials never corrected them.

hsehestedt said:

I have no clue on how they come up with this stuff. But here is a related one:

A flat, thin, round object is called a "disk". But for optical media such as a CD, DVD, Blu-Ray, etc. it is spelled "disc" (with a "c"). Why?

Click to expand...

Disc, from the Latin discos, was the traditional spelling. But Americans chose to spell it disk. This spelling has crossed the Atlantic and was first used in computer technology, much the same way as programme has come to be replaced by the US program.


I see the Latin discus comes originally from the Greek δίσκος (diskos) which may explain the confusion.

I had a problem with the mouse wheel not working about a year or two ago. I can't remember whether it was on Linux Mint or Windows 11 though. Anyway, I used the restore points to go back to a previous snapshot and that got it working. The next update had it working back to normal.
If it was Windows, I would have used the System Restore feature to go back to a previous restore point. If it was Mint, I would have used Timeshift to restore to a previous snapshot.

@Glasskutter If you have good backups, why not try a complete, fresh install of Windows? It would eliminate a hardware fault. Alternatively, run a Linux distro off a bootable USB device.

hsehestedt said:

I have no clue on how they come up with this stuff. But here is a related one:

A flat, thin, round object is called a "disk". But for optical media such as a CD, DVD, Blu-Ray, etc. it is spelled "disc" (with a "c"). Why?

Click to expand...

The Latin spelling, which is the original one, is disc from discus. The German spelling is disk as they don't use the C letter. English is related to German so it also adopted this spelling. In technology there is a convention that the spelling disc refers to a round object like compact disc, DVD disc etc, while the spelling disk refers to floppy disk or hard disk and SSD.

spapakons said:

English is related to German so it also adopted this spelling.

Click to expand...

No it didn't! You must mean American English!

kelper said:

@Glasskutter If you have good backups, why not try a complete, fresh install of Windows? It would eliminate a hardware fault. Alternatively, run a Linux distro off a bootable USB device.

Click to expand...

Ah, yes. Good idea. Along similar lines, without having to reinstall, simply boot Windows installation media and stop at the first static screen. Press SHIFT + F10 to open a command prompt. Run "notepad". Type in a bunch of nonsense lines, enough to give you something that can be scrolled. See if mouse behaves here. This eliminates all the software you installed and drivers as well without having to reinstall.

Pardon me if I missed mention of it but my wife once killed her computer simply by walking from one room to the other, grabbed the USB-connected mouse to wake the computer and static electricity did it in. I put anti-static grounded touch pads on both desks shortly after.

Berton said:

Pardon me if I missed mention of it but my wife once killed her computer simply by walking from one room to the other, grabbed the USB-connected mouse to wake the computer and static electricity did it in. I put anti-static grounded touch pads on both desks shortly after.

Click to expand...

Yikes! I never killed a computer like that, but I did kill a Samsung Micro SD card with an impressively huge arc of static electricity. Fortunately, they replaced it for free.