Battery goes flat when PC turned off.

Landyman · Feb 4, 2024

As requested:- MS Windows V: 23H2 (OS Build 22631.3085

I have a strange fault on my Dell XPS 17. At the end of the day, I always turn it off. At the start of the next day, I always turn it on. It boots normally until recently.

For the last week or so, I now get the “Dell SupportAssist ¦On-board Diagnostics” displaying a very bright white screen, “WARNING: Battery is low”. I switch on the PSU (or more recently since the start of this problem), plug it in and then switch on. Then I select “Continue".

It then boots normally and I check the battery status in the taskbar and it’s at 6%.

Some times it boots normally and the battery capacity is only slightly below what I saw before switching off.

At first, I thought that I had inadvertently selected sleep mode. But then made sure that I had correctly powered off. However the problem still persists. ”. I now ensure that nothing is connected overnight.

I contacted Dell support as It’s under contract. They took over the PC and checked a few settings, but came to the conclusion that the battery was dying. I was to report back if the problem was still there after the weekend.

My thoughts are that something inside the Dell is staying on, as power control is soft. i.e. no hardware switch.

Looking in settings shortly after switching on today:-

From switching off last night, the battery level fell gradually until I switched on today. Also the screen was on for 20h 41min. i.e. while switched off.

Anyone any ideas, please?

TechnoMage2021 · Feb 4, 2024

Don't you leave the power supply connected to the laptop, over night, so it can recharge?
I would!

I have seven laptops, and any one of them will discharge the battery if left unplugged for any length of time.
So, I keep most of them plugged in all the time, so they are fully charged when I want to use them.
If Dell said the battery is GOING, then replace it. Then keep it plugged into the charger when it's turned off.

Good Luck, Mate!
TM

thecaretaker · Feb 4, 2024

Could it have anything to do with USB being live when shutdown? My PC has an option in the BIOS to keep them live (for charging things) or turn them off. Do you have any items plugged in to any USB ports like a mouse?

idgat · Feb 5, 2024

TechnoMage2021 said:
Don't you leave the power supply connected to the laptop, over night, so it can recharge?
I would!

Not sure I'd be leaving ANY battery on charge, unattended

Try3 · Feb 5, 2024

Landyman said:
the screen was on for 20h 41min. i.e. while switched off

Given that irrational result, I suggest letting Dell take care of the problem.
It might well be the battery as they say. But that result is so odd that I would not rule out other system hardware misbehaving.
If you delve too deeply & change things, Dell might say that you have caused the fault and refuse to fix it.

I have never experienced Dell support being so helpful. I hope you can make the best of it.

Landyman said:
power control is soft. i.e. no hardware switch

This is not a hardware switch then? Or perhaps Dell XPS 17s vary [I just searched and found this diagram].

Best of luck,
Denis

Bree · Feb 5, 2024

Landyman said:
My thoughts are that something inside the Dell is staying on.....

Try3 said:
that result is so odd that I would not rule out other system hardware misbehaving.....

Not that odd once you know that the Dell XPS 17 has Modern Standby.

XPS 17 9710 S3 Sleep State | DELL Technologies

Just purchased a new XPS 17 9710 and installed a fresh copy of Windows 11. Everything is working except for the real sleep/standby, which Windows says it's not supported by the system firmware. &...

www.dell.com

Try3 · Feb 5, 2024

Bree said:
Not that odd once you know that the Dell XPS 17 has Modern Standby

But the OP said it was off, not that it was in S0 Modern standby.

Landyman said:
At first, I thought that I had inadvertently selected sleep mode. But then made sure that I had correctly powered off

And Dell support did not contradict him.

In addition, the power loss shown in the OP's diagram is wildly in excess of what I'd expect in S0 Modern standby [or in S3 Sleep].
Assuming the XPS 17 has a battery with round-about 50WHr, I would expect it to have lost about 40% of its power over that period.
My guestimates are based on tests with a very limited range of computers [2 modern HPs, a middle-aged Dell & an unreliable Chuwi].
Power consumption in S0 Modern standby and S3 Sleep - my post #85 - ElevenForum

All the best,
Denis

Winuser · Feb 5, 2024

I would contact Dell again and let them know that the screen is staying on when you shut down the laptop and only turning off when the battery level gets low. My guess is that it has some to do with Modern Standby or there is something wrong with the laptop.

Bree · Feb 5, 2024

Landyman said:
At the end of the day, I always turn it off.

Check in Control Panel that the PC isn't set to Sleep when you press the Power button.

Sir_George · Feb 5, 2024

Landyman said:
As requested:- MS Windows V: 23H2 (OS Build 22631.3085

I have a strange fault on my Dell XPS 17. At the end of the day, I always turn it off. At the start of the next day, I always turn it on. It boots normally until recently.

For the last week or so, I now get the “Dell SupportAssist ¦On-board Diagnostics” displaying a very bright white screen, “WARNING: Battery is low”. I switch on the PSU (or more recently since the start of this problem), plug it in and then switch on. Then I select “Continue".

It then boots normally and I check the battery status in the taskbar and it’s at 6%.

Some times it boots normally and the battery capacity is only slightly below what I saw before switching off.

At first, I thought that I had inadvertently selected sleep mode. But then made sure that I had correctly powered off. However the problem still persists. ”. I now ensure that nothing is connected overnight.

I contacted Dell support as It’s under contract. They took over the PC and checked a few settings, but came to the conclusion that the battery was dying. I was to report back if the problem was still there after the weekend.

My thoughts are that something inside the Dell is staying on, as power control is soft. i.e. no hardware switch.

Looking in settings shortly after switching on today:-View attachment 86108

From switching off last night, the battery level fell gradually until I switched on today. Also the screen was on for 20h 41min. i.e. while switched off.

Anyone any ideas, please?

If the computer is still under "warranty" contract as you stated, then it can't be too old and there is already a reasonably large problem, let Dell handle it. Messing around with it and trying to diagnose the problem may result in additional problems and Dell may say your attempts to solve the problem voided the warranty. Of course, the suggestions posted here shouldn't cause a warranty problem, but then again...

Landyman · Feb 5, 2024

Many thanks for all of your suggestions – just a few replies:-

“Don't you leave the power supply connected to the laptop, over night, so it can recharge?”

No because it’s a lithium battery and it’s control circuitry could fail, causing a fire.

“Could it have anything to do with USB being live when shutdown? My PC has an option in the BIOS to keep them live (for charging things) or turn them off. Do you have any items plugged in to any USB ports like a mouse?”

That’s a good idea, I’ll investigate. I normally leave the Dell USB-C to USB-A/HDMI Adaptor (a supplied device as this PC only has USB-C ports) connected to my external monitor, that is switched off. But since this problem started, I now leave everything disconnected.

“Given that irrational result, I suggest letting Dell take care of the problem.
It might well be the battery as they say. But that result is so odd that I would not rule out other system hardware misbehaving.”

I intend leaving it to Dell, but thanks for confirming my thoughts about other internal hardware.

“This is not a hardware switch then?”

Probably not as it’s a keyboard key and not a switch.

“In addition, the power loss shown in the OP's diagram is wildly in excess of what I'd expect in S0 Modern standby [or in S3 Sleep].
Assuming the XPS 17 has a battery with round-about 50WHr, I would expect it to have lost about 40% of its power over that period.”

Thank you for confirming my thoughts.

“Check in Control Panel that the PC isn't set to Sleep when you press the Power button.”

These days I never use the power key, as I’ve found that it’s setting gets changed in the background – OS update??? And I always look for the screen displaying turning off.

Overnight battery level fell from 100% to 99%, which is what I'd expect. As I wrote it's intermitant.

Landyman · Feb 25, 2024

Sir_George said:
If the computer is still under "warranty" contract as you stated, then it can't be too old and there is already a reasonably large problem, let Dell handle it. Messing around with it and trying to diagnose the problem may result in additional problems and Dell may say your attempts to solve the problem voided the warranty. Of course, the suggestions posted here shouldn't cause a warranty problem, but then again...

Try3 said:
But the OP said it was off, not that it was in S0 Modern standby.

And Dell support did not contradict him.

In addition, the power loss shown in the OP's diagram is wildly in excess of what I'd expect in S0 Modern standby [or in S3 Sleep].
Assuming the XPS 17 has a battery with round-about 50WHr, I would expect it to have lost about 40% of its power over that period.
My guestimates are based on tests with a very limited range of computers [2 modern HPs, a middle-aged Dell & an unreliable Chuwi].
Power consumption in S0 Modern standby and S3 Sleep - my post #85 - ElevenForum

Thanks for the comments. I have had a few telephone calls from Dell support. They have remotely controlled my PC a couple of times. Silly changes like setting for closing the lid, as I don’t do this – ever.

The sound icon in the taskbar had a X, and I was unable to restore sound. Support reinstalled the driver. I had the same a day or so later and do the reinstallation myself. This looks like hardware removing power from the sound hardware.

I’ve investigated modern standby, and can’t find any relevant information.

I do not have a hardwired network. (This Dell does not have a port for this, anyway!) I have a Three 5G wi-fi network.

I've just run a few CMD lines:-

During the day, I now leave the PC off (Shutdown via Start) with the PSU on and connected. Frequently, it turns itself on – displaying a very bright failed to load Windows display.

Last Dell support email wants to remote control it and install a fresh Windows OS.

My reply is that as Windows is not running while turned off, how can it be the cause of the problem of switching on.

I have purchased a '2 Year Premium Support Plus' and 'Onsite Service'. I think that, I should now request an Onsite Service.

Any comments would be appreciated.

PS: I accept that as I've been retired for over 20 years and I first serviced a PC in 1978/9, using an oscilloscope with circuit diagrams, block diagrams and a soldering iron; I’m now a bit out of touch!

bobkn · Feb 25, 2024

I can't swear that a clean install of Windows wouldn't make your PC all better. I know nothing about "modern sleep mode". However, I have the impression that a clean install is a random action from the nice script readers at Dell's outsourced support.

If you can image your current Windows drive, I suggest that you do that before letting Dell Support run rampant over it.

Good luck.

Try3 · Feb 26, 2024

Landyman said:

Those results are odd.
I think that you might have disabled S0 Modern standby [S0ix], possibly in the hope of enabling S3 Sleep. Posts by Dell staff in the Dell user forums state that this cannot be achieved for Dells because they all now have Bioses that prevent S3 Sleep working correctly.

I still think that you should get Dell to fix the computer.
Since you've paid for onsite support then go ahead and call them in.
I think the fault is probably within the battery or within the battery management system.
Hope fully the onsite engineer will bring spares for both parts.
I've only experienced Dell onsite support once. The onsite engineer was competent and could not have been more helpful.

Landyman said:
I’ve investigated modern standby, and can’t find any relevant information.

I have seen no reason to think S0ix has anything at all to do with your current problem.
If you want to ask about S0ix out of general interest then fine.
- I have spend quite a while studying it & experimenting with it.
- I resented it for years but, now that I've learnt how to tame it***, I am quite happy to have it on two of my computers.
- I still think it has been introduced in an appalling manner. It is such a departure from S3 Sleep that I think it should have been introduced as an additional power state not as a replacement. And as for foisting it on us without even telling us let alone not explaining its behaviour, that is quite improper.

***
Power consumption in S0 Modern standby and S3 Sleep - my post #85 - ElevenForum
Running scripts during S0 Modern standby - my post #86 - ElevenForum

All the best,
Denis

Winuser · Feb 26, 2024

bobkn said:
I know nothing about "modern sleep mode

I know two things about Modern Standby. 1. I hate it and 2. It almost fried one of my laptop. My laptop was so hot I could barely touch it and I couldn't get it to do anything. Even the lights wouldn't come on. I thought for sure the laptop was fried but to my surprise once it cooled down it was OK.

Landyman · Feb 26, 2024

Try3 said:
Those results are odd.
I think that you might have disabled S0 Modern standby [S0ix], possibly in the hope of enabling S3 Sleep. Posts by Dell staff in the Dell user forums state that this cannot be achieved for Dells because they all now have Bioses that prevent S3 Sleep working correctly.

I still think that you should get Dell to fix the computer.
Since you've paid for onsite support then go ahead and call them in.
I think the fault is probably within the battery or within the battery management system.
Hope fully the onsite engineer will bring spares for both parts.
I've only experienced Dell onsite support once. The onsite engineer was competent and could not have been more helpful.

I have seen no reason to think S0ix has anything at all to do with your current problem.

Thanks Denis.

I have not disabled S0 and I did not see Dell support disable it. I do not use sleep anymore due to this problem:-

I think that it's now time to request an on-site visit.

Try3 · Feb 26, 2024

Landyman said:
I have not disabled S0 and I did not see Dell support disable it.

Make sure you tell the onsite engineer that.
Unless there was a fundamental power-related fault on the computer when it was delivered, somebody disabled S0ix.

Landyman said:
I think that it's now time to request an on-site visit.

Agreed.

Best of luck,
Denis

Try3 · Feb 26, 2024

Sorry, I missed one thing out.

Don't shorten it to S0 or the engineer will get hold of the wrong end of the stick. S0 means something else.
It's
S0 Modern standby, or
S0ix, or
S0 Lower power idle
[or even a fourth name that slips my mind at the moment]
but never just S0
because S0 is the power state that means the computer is running.

All the best,
Denis

Landyman · Mar 27, 2024

A final update on these problems.

The Dell online supported update of a clean Windows 11 Pro resulted a few days of the battery retaining it’s charge overnight. So Dell closed the support action as all appeared to be OK.

However, loss of various hardware items continued. The top of screen camera used for recognising me at start-up could not be found. The Bluetooth hardware went missing. Errors on the last plugged in USB device occurred although nothing had been plugged in. Frequent lass of the BT mouse etc.

So I contacted Dell support again, but was told that the case had been closed. A new support person then wanted to do another clean Windows install.

I refused on the grounds that as Dell had failed the first repair I would lose consumer rights if I allowed that to happen. I then requested a replacement or a refund. To my surprise, after a little discussion took place, they agreed on a refund.

The laptop was collected by Dell it’s been inspected and I’m now waiting for the refund to arrive in my bank. Next to buy a replacement – possibly another thread.

Try3 · Mar 28, 2024

I think you made the right decision.
Your PowerCfg -a results showing neither S0 Modern standby nor S3 Sleep demonstrated a fundamental power configuration problem that you could not have resolved on your own.

For what it's worth, I finally broke away from Dell last year. I wanted a Windows 11 computer so I could get used to it while still using my Windows 10 as my main computer.
I asked Dell Sales if it came with S3 Sleep or S0 Modern standby.
They didn't know.
I asked if they could rope in technical staff to answer the question.
They said no.
I said bye.

All the best,
Denis