To the Linux community

ProgEngi · Dec 7, 2023

I’m back with questions related to Linux before final move

System: HP ENVY dv6 | i5-3210M 2.50GHz | 8.00 GB

I’ve already installed W11 23H2 on much older unsupported laptop

Downloaded Linux Mint Cinnamon – and almost ready to go. Below two screenshots explains everything

Existing: Dual-boot | Planned: Dual-boot
OS order of Install
Linux (ext4) would be able to access Data (NTFS)? | W11 (NTFS) obviously will have no issue

Marie SWE · Dec 7, 2023

ProgEngi said:
I’m back with questions related to Linux before final move

System: HP ENVY dv6 | i5-3210M 2.50GHz | 8.00 GB

I’ve already installed W11 23H2 on much older unsupported laptop

Downloaded Linux Mint Cinnamon – and almost ready to go. Below two screenshots explains everything

Existing: Dual-boot | Planned: Dual-boot

OS order of Install

Linux (ext4) would be able to access Data (NTFS)? | W11 (NTFS) obviously will have no issue

I'm guessing Mint21..
That hardware is in the lower end..
I would bite out a 16GB partition on the end of the SSD for a linux swap partition.

I can make this a long post that take half a day to write.. But i will make it short and if you want to know more specific, then use google on it. :wink:

When you have a low end machine with low ram and a HDD(spin disk) you have a phenomenon called I/O trashing or swapdeath.. I called it "swap of death", so you will most likely find post by me on the subject.

The point is with low memory and slow disk and you use to muck memory so it start swapping, the system can freeze for 10seconds up to 30minutes do to disk I/O trashing.. and to avoid that with low ram.. have the swap partition on an SSD.

Just a tip to you, for less frustrated days in your Linux journey. :wink:

ProgEngi · Dec 7, 2023

Marie SWE said:
I'm guessing Mint21..
That hardware is in the lower end..
I would bite out a 16GB partition on the end of the SSD for a linux swap partition.

I can make this a long post that take half a day to write.. But i will make it short and if you want to know more specific, then use google on it.
When you have a low end machine with low ram and a HDD(spin disk) you have a phenomenon called I/O trashing or swapdeath.. I called it "swap of death", so you will most likely find post by me on the subject.

The point is with low memory and slow disk and you use to muck memory so it start swapping, the system can freeze for 10seconds up to 30minutes do to disk I/O trashing.. and to avoid that with low ram.. have the swap partition on an SSD.

Just a tip to you, for less frustrated days in your Linux journey.

Why can't Linux Mint 21.2 Cinnamon be installed on Disk 1 (HDD)?

Marie SWE · Dec 7, 2023

ProgEngi said:
Why can't Linux Mint 21.2 Cinnamon be installed on Disk 1 (HDD)?

of course it can.
You can install mint or any Linux distro on what ever partition/disk you want
So if you want root( / ) be on disk1 partition 3 it can be.. and then if you want to have swap on disk0 partition2 you can..

There is hundreds of guides of how to partition the system.. and some of them is way to old to even follow..
If you use a split partition instalation
/
/home
/boot
/swap
then to make it easy root or / no less then 40GB
/boot 1024MB
/home no less then 60GB as all your stuff will end up there
/swap i use ram x2 to support hibernation even you have used some of the swap.

I always make it easy for me.. I only do two partitions
/ and Swap
When you only make a root ( / ) partition, then the Home partition will become a folder on the system disk.. also Boot will end up in the system partition... That way you never get problem with the system growing out of the diskspace.

This is my Linux partitioning i use. 140GB for boot, root, and home.. then a backup partition for Timeshift (kind of windows restore points but ten times better) and then 22GB for swap
I have them all on the same disk on this machine, bit on my big desktop i have system on Disk0 (HDD) and then i have swap on an SSD as Disk2 i think it is..

ProgEngi · Dec 8, 2023

Marie SWE said:
of course it can.
You can install mint or any Linux distro on what ever partition/disk you want
So if you want root( / ) be on disk1 partition 3 it can be.. and then if you want to have swap on disk0 partition2 you can..

There is hundreds of guides of how to partition the system.. and some of them is way to old to even follow..
If you use a split partition instalation
/
/home
/boot
/swap
then to make it easy root or / no less then 40GB
/boot 1024MB
/home no less then 60GB as all your stuff will end up there
/swap i use ram x2 to support hibernation even you have used some of the swap.

I always make it easy for me.. I only do two partitions
/ and Swap
When you only make a root ( / ) partition, then the Home partition will become a folder on the system disk.. also Boot will end up in the system partition... That way you never get problem with the system growing out of the diskspace.

This is my Linux partitioning i use. 140GB for boot, root, and home.. then a backup partition for Timeshift (kind of windows restore points but ten times better) and then 22GB for swap
I have them all on the same disk on this machine, bit on my big desktop i have system on Disk0 (HDD) and then i have swap on an SSD as Disk2 i think it is..

View attachment 80392

If you want my attention... I surely do – and truly appreciate, thanks in advance

Please review both images

HDD (Disk 1)

Boot from Linux Mint 21.2 Learning
Wipe all partitions except Data (D:) which is crucial
Create only one partition – Don’t need Backup & Swap
Follow on screen prompt for installation – Hopefully all will go well
Be able to access Data (D:)

SSD (Disk 0)

Wipe and Clean Install W11 23H2

Questions:

Which OS to install first?
Whether any file attributes to edit for dual-boot?
Anything to watch you’d recommend?

Be ready for: ping Marie SWE -t

Marie SWE · Dec 8, 2023

@ProgEngi I'm just about to eat dinner.. But I will be back in an hour to answer it all.

Josey Wales · Dec 8, 2023

I started on a TRS-80 before there was Windows it was all DOS. I also us MX-23.1 Linus on a Nuc. I like it. A great deal faster than Windows 11 :thumbsup:

Marie SWE · Dec 8, 2023

ProgEngi said:
If you want my attention... I surely do – and truly appreciate, thanks in advance

Please review both images

HDD (Disk 1)

Boot from Linux Mint 21.2 Learning

Wipe all partitions except Data (D:) which is crucial

Create only one partition – Don’t need Backup & Swap

Follow on screen prompt for installation – Hopefully all will go well

Be able to access Data (D:)

SSD (Disk 0)

Wipe and Clean Install W11 23H2

Questions:

Which OS to install first?

Whether any file attributes to edit for dual-boot?

Anything to watch you’d recommend?

Be ready for: ping Marie SWE -t

Back again

Lets see....
Important keywords i see is Learning and Crucial.
I will start with saying, Back up your data on D: that is really important to you. (backup is important otherwise also, but even more now when messing with the partitions)

When deleting and making new partitions it is always a risk to slip up, even when you have done it 100times before.. and it becomes a less panic feeling when you know you have all data on a backup.

So for using linux for learning, Yeah you are right the swap is less important then as it is for learning and not heavy usage

Timeshift i do recommend using while learning, as if you mess up your linux install while testing things and experimenting, it often is possible to save all last changes with restoring the system... But you do not need a separate partition for it.. but check out Timeshift when you have linux installed.

Windows10 +11 do not like to play nice with a Win/linux dualboot.....

So less headache is to install windows and Linux separate and use the Bios start menu to choose what system to boot in to... and that is easiest with detaching Disk1 during install of win11 on disk0, (so windows dont kidnap all disks it can). *LOL*

And when win11 is installed. Deactivate Fast boot in windows, otherwise windows will lock all ntfs/fat drive as read only for linux.. Then shut down the computer and unhook drive0 and connect drive1 and startup the Linux Mint USB

Partitions on Disk1.. as i mention and will mention again.., backup your data you have on D, as if you make a mistake, you looking at trying data recovery that might be harder then you think.. So backup the data.

When the data is backed up and you only have the drive1 attached.. and is booted in to Linux mint live media.. Start Gparted.. (click "start" menu, start type GP and Gparted popsup and click on it to start).... and there you can delete the first, second and third partitions (300MB + 100MB + 149.48GB) and leave the last Data partition as it is... Then click on the green execute button in Gparted to write changes to disk..
Here i could say what partitions to make.. But i think as first time you should let the Linux Mint installer make the Partitions... and as i dont Use mint, i dont remember how the installer looks like, as i know that one is different from Debian installer.... *thinking* ... I have to boot up Mint to see the options....
BRB........

Back again a few hours later.. a thing came up..

I looked in on the mint installer if it was an easy way to cheat with.. But it looks like you will have to do a manually partitioning.
as i wrote a few rows up..
Start Gparted.. (click on the "start" Menu, start type GP and Gparted popsup and click on it to start).... and there you can delete the first, second and third partitions (300MB + 100MB + 149.48GB) and leave the last D: Data partition as it is... Then click on the green execute button in Gparted to write changes to disk..

If i was you, or as i have been doing the last 5years with my setups.. is to make one big linux partition for everything.. (Boot, Root, Home) That just makes everything easier.. (my opinion)
If you want to separate system from the /Home then you can make two partitions. You can make the partition or partitions in the Linux installer, But Gparted can be a bit easier the first time doing this as you do have the Data partition you want to keep safe..
You will have around 150GB for your setup.. if you use one partition (as i do), then its easy.. make one ext4 partition out of the empty unallocated space... or if you want to separate the system make two.. one at 50GB and one 100GB. Both as ext4 file system.
When you are ready with Gparted, close it down...
Then click on Install mint icon on the desktop. In the installer you choose language and all that.. then on install type, choose install as ("something else")...... if you use the first option, it will wipe the whole drive and you lose the D: partition.

Then a new screen appear and you will choose the partition you made in Gparted... Mark the partition and then click "Change"
on the little popup it should say ext4 as you made that in Gparted.. Then tick the little box (Format the partition) and then under choose mount point / and then you click okay and continue..
and if you make two partitions, you do the same with partition two.. tic the box format, then choose mount point but there you choose /Home.. Then okay and continue the install.. you will hit a bug here that says you dont have an EFI partition.. ignore it and click continue as with that old CPU i have a feeling you install in Legacy mode.. and if not.. I say change in bios to Legacy as legacy install is better when dualbooting. (my opinion).
and as you plan on install win11 on that CPU you will use the hack to bypass the win11 requirement on the CPU and then you can bypass UEFI install too.

I'm not the best ever at explaining things.. and some say you should have a Fat32 boot partition.. But windows updates is really good on kidnapping boot partitions, so when you have Boot on the main system partition that is ext4, then windows can't get to it and mess it up. :wink:

I made a few printscreens while i was testing the mint installer on my VM so you can see what i just wrote?

and as i said several times...
Back up the data on your D: Data partition, just in case you delete the partition or if you miss on the installer "Something else" and the installer wipe the whole drive..

Backup, Backup and Backup :wink:

and some printscreens

Gparted setting only one system partition, and having the NTFS old data disk in the end.

Gparted with setting Two partitions, one for system and one for Home, and still have the old NTFS data partition all the way to the right.

In the installer... Choosing the installation as Somthing else... This is important so you dont wipe the whole drive

Setting the system partition Boot+Root.. and if you only have one system partition (as i have) Then it will also be Boot+Root and Home

And if you do the split with two partitions, then you also set the Home partition like this.

Then The bug :wink:

We discussed that bug or feature on MintForum, the bug is since Mint 20.1.. It is just to ignore and click continue and then Install now.

LM20 - legacy erase & install issues - Linux Mint Forums

Dont forget to backup your data :wink:

I hope this was to some help to you and to others... I'm really tired after only 4hour sleep last night... so when i read this tomorrow, i will most likely edit some spelling, and some. *LOL*

....

ProgEngi · Dec 9, 2023

Marie SWE said:
Back again Lets see....
Important keywords i see is Learning and Crucial.
I will start with saying, Back up your data on D: that is really important to you. (backup is important otherwise also, but even more now when messing with the partitions)

When deleting and making new partitions it is always a risk to slip up, even when you have done it 100times before.. and it becomes a less panic feeling when you know you have all data on a backup.

So for using linux for learning, Yeah you are right the swap is less important then as it is for learning and not heavy usage
Timeshift i do recommend using while learning, as if you mess up your linux install while testing things and experimenting, it often is possible to save all last changes with restoring the system... But you do not need a separate partition for it.. but check out Timeshift when you have linux installed.

Windows10 +11 do not like to play nice with a Win/linux dualboot.....
So less headache is to install windows and Linux separate and use the Bios start menu to choose what system to boot in to... and that is easiest with detaching Disk1 during install of win11 on disk0, (so windows dont kidnap all disks it can). *LOL*
And when win11 is installed. Deactivate Fast boot in windows, otherwise windows will lock all ntfs/fat drive as read only for linux.. Then shut down the computer and unhook drive0 and connect drive1 and startup the Linux Mint USB

Partitions on Disk1.. as i mention and will mention again.., backup your data you have on D, as if you make a mistake, you looking at trying data recovery that might be harder then you think.. So backup the data.
When the data is backed up and you only have the drive1 attached.. and is booted in to Linux mint live media.. Start Gparted.. (click "start" menu, start type GP and Gparted popsup and click on it to start).... and there you can delete the first, second and third partitions (300MB + 100MB + 149.48GB) and leave the last Data partition as it is... Then click on the green execute button in Gparted to write changes to disk..
Here i could say what partitions to make.. But i think as first time you should let the Linux Mint installer make the Partitions... and as i dont Use mint, i dont remember how the installer looks like, as i know that one is different from Debian installer.... *thinking* ... I have to boot up Mint to see the options....
BRB........

Back again a few hours later.. a thing came up..

I looked in on the mint installer if it was an easy way to cheat with.. But it looks like you will have to do a manually partitioning.
as i wrote a few rows up..
Start Gparted.. (click on the "start" Menu, start type GP and Gparted popsup and click on it to start).... and there you can delete the first, second and third partitions (300MB + 100MB + 149.48GB) and leave the last D: Data partition as it is... Then click on the green execute button in Gparted to write changes to disk..

If i was you, or as i have been doing the last 5years with my setups.. is to make one big linux partition for everything.. (Boot, Root, Home) That just makes everything easier.. (my opinion)
If you want to separate system from the /Home then you can make two partitions. You can make the partition or partitions in the Linux installer, But Gparted can be a bit easier the first time doing this as you do have the Data partition you want to keep safe..
You will have around 150GB for your setup.. if you use one partition (as i do), then its easy.. make one ext4 partition out of the empty unallocated space... or if you want to separate the system make two.. one at 50GB and one 100GB. Both as ext4 file system.
When you are ready with Gparted, close it down...
Then click on Install mint icon on the desktop. In the installer you choose language and all that.. then on install type, choose install as ("something else")...... if you use the first option, it will wipe the whole drive and you lose the D: partition.

Then a new screen appear and you will choose the partition you made in Gparted... Mark the partition and then click "Change"
on the little popup it should say ext4 as you made that in Gparted.. Then tick the little box (Format the partition) and then under choose mount point / and then you click okay and continue..
and if you make two partitions, you do the same with partition two.. tic the box format, then choose mount point but there you choose /Home.. Then okay and continue the install.. you will hit a bug here that says you dont have an EFI partition.. ignore it and click continue as with that old CPU i have a feeling you install in Legacy mode.. and if not.. I say change in bios to Legacy as legacy install is better when dualbooting. (my opinion).
and as you plan on install win11 on that CPU you will use the hack to bypass the win11 requirement on the CPU and then you can bypass UEFI install too.

I'm not the best ever at explaining things.. and some say you should have a Fat32 boot partition.. But windows updates is really good on kidnapping boot partitions, so when you have Boot on the main system partition that is ext4, then windows can't get to it and mess it up.

I made a few printscreens while i was testing the mint installer on my VM so you can see what i just wrote?

and as i said several times...
Back up the data on your D: Data partition, just in case you delete the partition or if you miss on the installer "Something else" and the installer wipe the whole drive..

Backup, Backup and Backup

and some printscreens

Gparted setting only one system partition, and having the NTFS old data disk in the end.

View attachment 80572

Gparted with setting Two partitions, one for system and one for Home, and still have the old NTFS data partition all the way to the right.

View attachment 80574

In the installer... Choosing the installation as Somthing else... This is important so you dont wipe the whole drive

View attachment 80575

Setting the system partition Boot+Root.. and if you only have one system partition (as i have) Then it will also be Boot+Root and Home

View attachment 80576

And if you do the split with two partitions, then you also set the Home partition like this.

View attachment 80577

Then The bug

We discussed that bug or feature on MintForum, the bug is since Mint 20.1.. It is just to ignore and click continue and then Install now.

LM20 - legacy erase & install issues - Linux Mint Forums

View attachment 80579

Dont forget to backup your data

I hope this was to some help to you and to others... I'm really tired after only 4hour sleep last night... so when i read this tomorrow, i will most likely edit some spelling, and some. *LOL*
....

I admire your patience and very well explained article yes article!

Marie SWE · Dec 9, 2023

ProgEngi said:
I admire your patience and very well explained article yes article!

Thanks

but patience is sadly not in my vocabulary any longer. I lost all interest for computers soon to be two years ago... In the past i wrote a few longer and with more passion.. I think a few is on mintforums.. then i mostly wrote on swedish forums.. a few HowTo guides about win-linux samba networking and i did a win11 guide on how to install 11 on unsupported hardware.. a few days after the win11 release. it took me almost a full day to crack the installer and a day to write the HowTo. *LOL*

It was fun with computers in the past.. and cracking and hacking is some times still fun.. But that is against the forum rules, so i can not post any fun things on that subject. :wink:

But i still speak my mind now and then(i tell the cold hard truth so to speak) and swearing over Windows and Linux.. and i do it on both Linux forums, swearing over linux, and on windows forum i swear over windows.. and both around.
My first post on Tenforum almost caused a riot. *LOL*

..... Didn't it @Bree :wink:

ProgEngi · Dec 10, 2023

Marie SWE said:
Thanks
but patience is sadly not in my vocabulary any longer. I lost all interest for computers soon to be two years ago... In the past i wrote a few longer and with more passion.. I think a few is on mintforums.. then i mostly wrote on swedish forums.. a few HowTo guides about win-linux samba networking and i did a win11 guide on how to install 11 on unsupported hardware.. a few days after the win11 release. it took me almost a full day to crack the installer and a day to write the HowTo. *LOL*

It was fun with computers in the past.. and cracking and hacking is some times still fun.. But that is against the forum rules, so i can not post any fun things on that subject.

But i still speak my mind now and then(i tell the cold hard truth so to speak) and swearing over Windows and Linux.. and i do it on both Linux forums, swearing over linux, and on windows forum i swear over windows.. and both around.
My first post on Tenforum almost caused a riot. *LOL* ..... Didn't it @Bree

I've joined Linux Mint Forum to polish my initial understanding grasped from your post from zero to top gear

In the quest I may install on 128 GB USB where destruction would be immaterial - what's your say

jimbo45 · Dec 10, 2023

When installing Dual boot Linux / Windows on the same drive it's usually better to install WINDOWS first. Then when installing most linux distros the Linux boot manager (usually GRUB) the "OSPROBER" part will check for other OS's installed including Windows and so a boot you should see the botk Linux and Windows in the boot menu without you needing to go into the computers BIOS.

The best way is to have ONE EFI partition, irrespective of the number of disks in the system and install Windows via vhdx physical files and install the bootloader via bcdboot.

Now install the Linux system installing grub to /dev/sda1 or whever you have defined the EFI partition.

Cheers
jimbo

ProgEngi said:
I've joined Linux Mint Forum to polish my initial understanding grasped from your post from zero to top gear

In the quest I may install on 128 GB USB where destruction would be immaterial - what's your say

Don't give up -- Computers are still fun --even though we need to have "a go" against huge companies like Ms, Canonical (ubuntu), and Red Hat (IBM etc).

Linux still survives with individuals giving their time to develop open source stuff -- Arch Linux, Debian etc and its derivatives are full of people who maintain the whole idea of open source and want nothing to do with the mega corporate companies trying to kill all this type of stuff.

Canonical was trying to shut Debian down because Debian only had around 500 million dollars in the bank compared with the nearly a Billion that Canonical (Ubuntu) had -- and compared with the wealth of IBM (owners now of Red Hat) - that's still small change,

And I'm "100% no socialist or Just stop oil stuff" . I like money too -- but I like to earn it sustainably -- without wrecking the planet -- and it's possible (quite easily too) to do it.

Anyway for a Sunday night enough of politics -- "Here end endeth my Sunday Church lesson".

Have a happy Xmas - sustainable is good -- and enjoy !!! -- and Debian etc will not go away either whatever Canonical think. UBUNTU (canonical -- just google it) users you should be ashamed of supporting their distro -- they do ZILCH for open source,

Cheers
jimbo

Marie SWE · Dec 10, 2023

ProgEngi said:
I've joined Linux Mint Forum to polish my initial understanding grasped from your post from zero to top gear

In the quest I may install on 128 GB USB where destruction would be immaterial - what's your say

Sounds as a nice move, to join Mint forums, as you will have great support from a lot of people in there.

There is a few elitists in there though and some hobbyists that believe they are God... Just ignore them if they make you feel bad in any ways..
I wrote a long post about it on mint. *LOL* enjoy the reading.

The Eternal Battle Noobs vs Power Users... - Page 5 - Linux Mint Forums
Linux support on a windows forum have less response, as so few is using Linux if they have windows as main system.

on the 128GB USB.. Yeah why not install Linux on that one and let the others partitions bee for the moment.. Then you can set up partitions like your Disk1 with a 2GB NTFS partition in the end, and learn partitioning without erase the last partition.. and when you feel you know hor to do it, then go for an install on Disk1. See it like a practice driving

ProgEngi · Dec 10, 2023

jimbo45 said:
When installing Dual boot Linux / Windows on the same drive it's usually better to install WINDOWS first. Then when installing most linux distros the Linux boot manager (usually GRUB) the "OSPROBER" part will check for other OS's installed including Windows and so a boot you should see the botk Linux and Windows in the boot menu without you needing to go into the computers BIOS.

The best way is to have ONE EFI partition, irrespective of the number of disks in the system and install Windows via vhdx physical files and install the bootloader via bcdboot.

Now install the Linux system installing grub to /dev/sda1 or whever you have defined the EFI partition.

Cheers
jimbo

Don't give up -- Computers are still fun --even though we need to have "a go" against huge companies like Ms, Canonical (ubuntu), and Red Hat (IBM etc).

Linux still survives with individuals giving their time to develop open source stuff -- Arch Linux, Debian etc and its derivatives are full of people who maintain the whole idea of open source and want nothing to do with the mega corporate companies trying to kill all this type of stuff.

Canonical was trying to shut Debian down because Debian only had around 500 million dollars in the bank compared with the nearly a Billion that Canonical (Ubuntu) had -- and compared with the wealth of IBM (owners now of Red Hat) - that's still small change,

And I'm "100% no socialist or Just stop oil stuff" . I like money too -- but I like to earn it sustainably -- without wrecking the planet -- and it's possible (quite easily too) to do it.

Anyway for a Sunday night enough of politics -- "Here end endeth my Sunday Church lesson".

Have a happy Xmas - sustainable is good -- and enjoy !!! -- and Debian etc will not go away either whatever Canonical think. UBUNTU (canonical -- just google it) users you should be ashamed of supporting their distro -- they do ZILCH for open source,

Cheers
jimbo

Thanks jimbo45

For now will install LM21.2 on 128 GB USB, once comfortable will install it on Disk 1 (HDD) and Clean Install W11 23 on SSD (Disk 0) – please look at Disk Management picture above

ProgEngi · Dec 10, 2023

jimbo45 said:
When installing Dual boot Linux / Windows on the same drive it's usually better to install WINDOWS first. Then when installing most linux distros the Linux boot manager (usually GRUB) the "OSPROBER" part will check for other OS's installed including Windows and so a boot you should see the botk Linux and Windows in the boot menu without you needing to go into the computers BIOS.

The best way is to have ONE EFI partition, irrespective of the number of disks in the system and install Windows via vhdx physical files and install the bootloader via bcdboot.

Now install the Linux system installing grub to /dev/sda1 or whever you have defined the EFI partition.

Cheers
jimbo

Don't give up -- Computers are still fun --even though we need to have "a go" against huge companies like Ms, Canonical (ubuntu), and Red Hat (IBM etc).

Linux still survives with individuals giving their time to develop open source stuff -- Arch Linux, Debian etc and its derivatives are full of people who maintain the whole idea of open source and want nothing to do with the mega corporate companies trying to kill all this type of stuff.

Canonical was trying to shut Debian down because Debian only had around 500 million dollars in the bank compared with the nearly a Billion that Canonical (Ubuntu) had -- and compared with the wealth of IBM (owners now of Red Hat) - that's still small change,

And I'm "100% no socialist or Just stop oil stuff" . I like money too -- but I like to earn it sustainably -- without wrecking the planet -- and it's possible (quite easily too) to do it.

Anyway for a Sunday night enough of politics -- "Here end endeth my Sunday Church lesson".

Have a happy Xmas - sustainable is good -- and enjoy !!! -- and Debian etc will not go away either whatever Canonical think. UBUNTU (canonical -- just google it) users you should be ashamed of supporting their distro -- they do ZILCH for open source,

Cheers
jimbo

Thanks jimbo

For now will install LM21.2 on 128 GB USB, once comfortable will install it on Disk 1 (HDD) and Clean Install W11 23H2 on SSD (Disk 0) – please look at Disk Management picture

ProgEngi · Dec 10, 2023

Marie SWE said:
Sounds as a nice move, to join Mint forums, as you will have great support from a lot of people in there. There is a few elitists in there though and some hobbyists that believe they are God... Just ignore them if they make you feel bad in any ways..
I wrote a long post about it on mint. *LOL* enjoy the reading. The Eternal Battle Noobs vs Power Users... - Page 5 - Linux Mint Forums
Linux support on a windows forum have less response, as so few is using Linux if they have windows as main system.

on the 128GB USB.. Yeah why not install Linux on that one and let the others partitions bee for the moment.. Then you can set up partitions like your Disk1 with a 2GB NTFS partition in the end, and learn partitioning without erase the last partition.. and when you feel you know hor to do it, then go for an install on Disk1. See it like a practice driving

Reading...

Marie SWE · Dec 10, 2023

jimbo45 said:
When installing Dual boot Linux / Windows on the same drive it's usually better to install WINDOWS first. Then when installing most linux distros the Linux boot manager (usually GRUB) the "OSPROBER" part will check for other OS's installed including Windows and so a boot you should see the botk Linux and Windows in the boot menu without you needing to go into the computers BIOS.

The best way is to have ONE EFI partition, irrespective of the number of disks in the system and install Windows via vhdx physical files and install the bootloader via bcdboot.

Now install the Linux system installing grub to /dev/sda1 or whever you have defined the EFI partition.

Cheers
jimbo

I will agree with disagreeing

as he has so old computer, Legacy install is king and it is on the edge if he has Uefi bios or not.. intel 3rd. gen.. My 4th gen has Uefi, but not my 2nd gen... I always use Legacy as then you dont have to worry about windows updates screws up the Uefi boot order.

Installing dualboot on one harddrive, Yeah windows first Linux second... Installing on separate drives.. I still install windows first.. And OS Prober is disabled by default in Debian12 and in a lot of forks of debian.. so you need to un-hash os prober in Grub to make update grub detect other OS's.. and if you dont want to see annoying Recovery as OS alternative in Grub boot menu, you need to add a os prober skip list.
So best is to have the two totally separated/isolated and use Bios boot menu.
from win10 and newer windows really suck with dualbooting as Microsoft really do want a single system on every PC.

And on modern PC with need of UEFI, then i agree... But i still try to isolate them with separate bootloaders if it is a multi disk system.. if one disk fail, you can always boot in on the other one.

jimbo45 said:
Don't give up -- Computers are still fun --even though we need to have "a go" against huge companies like Ms, Canonical (ubuntu), and Red Hat (IBM etc).

Linux still survives with individuals giving their time to develop open source stuff -- Arch Linux, Debian etc and its derivatives are full of people who maintain the whole idea of open source and want nothing to do with the mega corporate companies trying to kill all this type of stuff.

Canonical was trying to shut Debian down because Debian only had around 500 million dollars in the bank compared with the nearly a Billion that Canonical (Ubuntu) had -- and compared with the wealth of IBM (owners now of Red Hat) - that's still small change,

And I'm "100% no socialist or Just stop oil stuff" . I like money too -- but I like to earn it sustainably -- without wrecking the planet -- and it's possible (quite easily too) to do it.

Anyway for a Sunday night enough of politics -- "Here end endeth my Sunday Church lesson".

Have a happy Xmas - sustainable is good -- and enjoy !!! -- and Debian etc will not go away either whatever Canonical think. UBUNTU (canonical -- just google it) users you should be ashamed of supporting their distro -- they do ZILCH for open source,

Cheers
jimbo

*smiling*

computers is fun..... mmm..Yeah it was.. now it ain't.*lol*

I have never liked Ubuntu, but that is not because of Canonical.. i just dont like Ubuntu of some unexplained reason.. Just a gut feeling.
as for Redhat.. Yeah, IBM did a bad thing destroying CentOS and then now trying to half close-source it so Alma and Rocky etc cant do a 1:1 build.. as they want money for their product, as Microsoft and Apple wants for their OS's .. That IBM play is still in motion though, so it has to wait and see what the final outcome will become
I still think Redhat is a great Server OS.. The right tool for the right job and you can still get Redhat for free as a private person up to 16servers i think it is....a lot of people that are fighting the global warming thing, is still driving cars, as they need the tool for their jobs and have a working life.. The same is with Linux.. If you need a reliable server and support, you go with Redhat, even CentOS will be missed..
But this is an open source community debate, and if you dont care about Microsoft, Logitech, adobe etc using closed source, so why care about Linux distros that might become closed source in the future.
One thing that big company's is focusing on is GUI's and user friendliness.. and they have a bigger developer team.... Yeah Linux community combined has more developers them Microsoft etc... But Linux distros is not working in teams.. You have 10people on that distro.. then you have 5 on that distro and 20 on that distro.. That is The linux desktop bigest weakness. And i wrote about that on MintForum.

------------

So caring about Canonical and IBM is a political fight, that has nothing to do with learning linux...
So use Mint as starting point even it has roots in to ubuntu is a good thing, as it is more userfriendly.. Then when getting a feel for it, move to LMDE and then later Debian.. Distrojumping is a bad thing as a newbe as you dont get a coherent experience to start learning from.

In the end you will learn Linux is linux and distributions doesn't matter.. You only have a few distros, Debian, Arch, Rhel, etc. The rest is just forks.. or in windowish.. Just different bloatware and theming.

Josey Wales · Dec 10, 2023

Linux Mint 21.3 BETA

With support for Secure Boot. :thumbsup:

ProgEngi · Dec 11, 2023

Marie SWE said:
I will agree with disagreeing

as he has so old computer, Legacy install is king and it is on the edge if he has Uefi bios or not.. intel 3rd. gen.. My 4th gen has Uefi, but not my 2nd gen... I always use Legacy as then you dont have to worry about windows updates screws up the Uefi boot order.

Installing dualboot on one harddrive, Yeah windows first Linux second... Installing on separate drives.. I still install windows first.. And OS Prober is disabled by default in Debian12 and in a lot of forks of debian.. so you need to un-hash os prober in Grub to make update grub detect other OS's.. and if you dont want to see annoying Recovery as OS alternative in Grub boot menu, you need to add a os prober skip list.
So best is to have the two totally separated/isolated and use Bios boot menu.
from win10 and newer windows really suck with dualbooting as Microsoft really do want a single system on every PC.

And on modern PC with need of UEFI, then i agree... But i still try to isolate them with separate bootloaders if it is a multi disk system.. if one disk fail, you can always boot in on the other one.

*smiling* computers is fun..... mmm..Yeah it was.. now it ain't.*lol*

I have never liked Ubuntu, but that is not because of Canonical.. i just dont like Ubuntu of some unexplained reason.. Just a gut feeling.
as for Redhat.. Yeah, IBM did a bad thing destroying CentOS and then now trying to half close-source it so Alma and Rocky etc cant do a 1:1 build.. as they want money for their product, as Microsoft and Apple wants for their OS's .. That IBM play is still in motion though, so it has to wait and see what the final outcome will become
I still think Redhat is a great Server OS.. The right tool for the right job and you can still get Redhat for free as a private person up to 16servers i think it is....a lot of people that are fighting the global warming thing, is still driving cars, as they need the tool for their jobs and have a working life.. The same is with Linux.. If you need a reliable server and support, you go with Redhat, even CentOS will be missed..
But this is an open source community debate, and if you dont care about Microsoft, Logitech, adobe etc using closed source, so why care about Linux distros that might become closed source in the future.
One thing that big company's is focusing on is GUI's and user friendliness.. and they have a bigger developer team.... Yeah Linux community combined has more developers them Microsoft etc... But Linux distros is not working in teams.. You have 10people on that distro.. then you have 5 on that distro and 20 on that distro.. That is The linux desktop bigest weakness. And i wrote about that on MintForum.

------------

So caring about Canonical and IBM is a political fight, that has nothing to do with learning linux...
So use Mint as starting point even it has roots in to ubuntu is a good thing, as it is more userfriendly.. Then when getting a feel for it, move to LMDE and then later Debian.. Distrojumping is a bad thing as a newbe as you dont get a coherent experience to start learning from.

In the end you will learn Linux is linux and distributions doesn't matter.. You only have a few distros, Debian, Arch, Rhel, etc. The rest is just forks.. or in windowish.. Just different bloatware and theming.

All laptops that I've are UEFI`