Windows 12's Minimum Requirements: 16 GB RAM?

I was going to post this in the "News" section but it understandably, only Brink has posting privileges.

Here is the latest shocker for those (like me) who were hoping for general improvements and more by switching to Windows 12 this fall: Windows 12 may force a major change for new PCs.

Basically, thanks to Microsoft's terrible AI, the minimum requirements for Windows 12 will be 16 GB of RAM compared to Windows 11 which requires 4 GB of memory to run and update, while Windows 10 requires 1 GB of memory for a 32-bit machine or 2 GB of memory for a 64-bit computer.

While I have recently upgraded my RAM in my laptop from 16 GB to 32 GB, I still think this is bad news for the masses especially since most people are moving away from desktops/laptops.

Perhaps my next PC should be a MAC?

Sammy888 said:

I was going to post this in the "News" section but it understandably, only Brink has posting privileges.

Here is the latest shocker for those (like me) who were hoping for general improvements and more by switching to Windows 12 this fall: Windows 12 may force a major change for new PCs.

Basically, thanks to Microsoft's terrible AI, the minimum requirements for Windows 12 will be 16 GB of RAM compared to Windows 11 which requires 4 GB of memory to run and update, while Windows 10 requires 1 GB of memory for a 32-bit machine or 2 GB of memory for a 64-bit computer.

While I have recently upgraded my RAM in my laptop from 16 GB to 32 GB, I still think this is bad news for the masses especially since most people are moving away from desktops/laptops.

Perhaps my next PC should be a MAC?

Click to expand...

Clickbait nothing more.

It's unclear from the article, but I get the impression that an "AI PC" may have more requirements than just 16GB of RAM. Perhaps special neural processing.

I wonder whether if there will be a Windows 12 for older PCs (say, 2023 models)?

ShamrockRig said:

Clickbait nothing more.

Click to expand...

If it's clickbait, it's popular clickbait. Multiple sites have the information, or lack thereof.

Sammy888 said:

While I have recently upgraded my RAM in my laptop from 16 GB to 32 GB, I still think this is bad news for the masses especially since most people are moving away from desktops/laptops.

Click to expand...

So, those people won't be using Windows 12, so who cares.

Sammy888 said:

Perhaps my next PC should be a MAC?

Click to expand...

It would be cheaper to buy RAM for your PC. But whatever floats your boat. Mac's are great too.

Hi,
Memory requirement seems a bit odd
The requirement should be more internet speed dependent seeing all that good old AI comes from servers probably no where near any users and no don't look up it isn't in that cloud

The article is not only about 12gb ram

According to Trendforce, Microsoft has set the standard for Windows 12 at 40 TOPS.

For reference, the current Intel Meteor Lake CPUs run at 34 TOPS, making them ineligible to power AI PCs. However, the upcoming Lunar Lake CPUs are expected to be rated for AI PCs. The new AMD Zen 4 APUs are rated at 39 TOPS, coming up just short, but the brand’s Strix Point Zen 5 APUs are expected to be compatible.

Click to expand...

I've been getting a bit suspicious lately about all these hardware requirements for Windows.
Seems more like a setup for... kickbacks from hardware manufacturers to MS.

So Vermeer processors are banned already?! As if they are Vishera?!

That kind of thinking, would be like Microsoft banning Sandy Bridge in 2015! (Sandy Bridge is from 2011)

So Microsoft's planning to ban 3-4 year old processors?! Even when it's not the ultra-low-tier!

So is Microsoft showing the door to late-AM4 users and treating them like they still have an FX 8350?

SIW2 said:

The article is not only about 12gb ram

Click to expand...

Yep one of the sources of tpu news article

SIW2 said:

The article is not only about 12gb ram

Click to expand...

40 Tera Operations per Second. I have no idea whether that sort of performance is achievable by any processor that doesn't include an NPU (neural processing unit). I'm unaware of simple-to-use benchmarking software that reports such a number.

Sammy888 said:

I was going to post this in the "News" section but it understandably, only Brink has posting privileges.

Here is the latest shocker for those (like me) who were hoping for general improvements and more by switching to Windows 12 this fall: Windows 12 may force a major change for new PCs.

Basically, thanks to Microsoft's terrible AI, the minimum requirements for Windows 12 will be 16 GB of RAM compared to Windows 11 which requires 4 GB of memory to run and update, while Windows 10 requires 1 GB of memory for a 32-bit machine or 2 GB of memory for a 64-bit computer.

While I have recently upgraded my RAM in my laptop from 16 GB to 32 GB, I still think this is bad news for the masses especially since most people are moving away from desktops/laptops.

Perhaps my next PC should be a MAC?

Click to expand...

4GB, 8GB, 12GB none of that will matter. Windows 12 will require TPM3.0 and an AI enabled processor.
So you will need to buy ANOTHER system to replace your aging 2023 system that can't be upgraded from Windows 11 or 10 anyway.
Microsoft is a marketing firm now and not a software development house.

Me, I'm stuck on Windows 10 because my system only has TPM1.2 and an unsupported CPU.
I have a 3.7GHz 4core/8thread XEON with 128GB of main memory but that is not good enough for Windows 11 it appears.

If I need to upgrade my hardware some day it will run Linux and maybe I'll do Windows XX in VirtualBox or whatever.

pparks1 said:

So, those people won't be using Windows 12, so who cares.

It would be cheaper to buy RAM for your PC. But whatever floats your boat. Mac's are great too.

Click to expand...

Well, if they're unhappy with Windows 11/10 and hoping for something better from W12...

Additionally, upgrading RAM isn't universally straightforward as you portray.

Laptop owners often face real concerns due to motherboard/RAM limitations, unlike desktop PCs, which aren't primarily used for gaming or in corporate/government environments. There is also soldered RAM which is common in laptops.

AK6DN said:

4GB, 8GB, 12GB none of that will matter. Windows 12 will require TPM3.0 and an AI enabled processor.
So you will need to buy ANOTHER system to replace your aging 2023 system that can't be upgraded from Windows 11 or 10 anyway.
Microsoft is a marketing firm now and not a software development house.

Me, I'm stuck on Windows 10 because my system only has TPM1.2 and an unsupported CPU.
I have a 3.7GHz 4core/8thread XEON with 128GB of main memory but that is not good enough for Windows 11 it appears.

If I need to upgrade my hardware some day it will run Linux and maybe I'll do Windows XX in VirtualBox or whatever.

Click to expand...

Is there any way to upgrade to TPM3? I read there are hacks for TPM2.

I'll never upgrade to Linux. It requires a distinct mindset and profile, especially since many basic functions can only be done with the command prompt/line instead of the context menu or within the app. The command line in Linux is as essential like your mouse and Linux enthusiasts are wired differently compared to Windows users.

In any event, if Microsoft doesn't backtrack there will be a significant backlash.

Sammy888 said:

Is there any way to upgrade to TPM3? I read there are hacks for TPM2.

I'll never upgrade to Linux. It requires a distinct mindset and profile, especially since many basic functions can only be done with the command prompt/line instead of the context menu or within the app. The command line in Linux is as essential like your mouse and Linux enthusiasts are wired differently compared to Windows users.

In any event, if Microsoft doesn't backtrack there will be a significant backlash.

Click to expand...

You obviously haven't seen a Linux system in the last 20 years or so. A graphical interface, just like Windows is the norm these days.
Yes, there still are terminal windows to do commands in Linux. Just like there is CommandWindow and PowerShell in windows, too.
But I can use a Linux system all day without ever launching a command shell terminal window.
Browsers (Firefox), email (Thunderbird), spreadsheets/word docs/presentations (LibreOffice) all work the same on Linux as they do on Windows.

Makes sense to me -- who'd buy a modern PC with less than 16GB of RAM in it. Not sure about "The neural processing unit". Who'd build their own rig or buy a desktop with less than 16GB RAM too and a decently powerful CPU.

What to me is utterly pointless is on W11 insisting on the TPM -- a piece of hardware that's easily over 6 years old (a geological era ago in terms of electronics and technology) and I'd bet 99% of W11 installs don't use it nor does Windows 11 on their systems do anything with it especially on domestic systems.

If an OS requires the use of specific hardware then that hardware should be modern and the OS should use it.

Running a NAS server (at least 8 years old) with 2 physical Xeon processors in it and 64GB RAM I've no problem running several W11 VM's -- in fact I almost rarely run W11 on a physical system --usually only on a work supplied laptop -- but even then my gigs are often remote where I use my own system to connect to their cloud VDI system using any OS at my end.

Some might switch to Linux, some won't - but W11 EOL is still a long way off and I can't see what's wrong with a commercial OS making use of the most modern hardware available and not having to be backward compatable with older hardware.

Don't forget Linux is open source so people can write specific routines for all sorts of hardware whereas Windows is a commercial product and having to ensure that it runs on everything is an expensive business. The insistence of a 64 bit CPU for W11 was far too long delayed -- even W10 should have insisted on it.

For me the best future for Windows would be to have it built into a chip while just having proper api's for hardware to be connected to it.
That way no messing around with updates etc -- would be even better if the OS was read only with drivers etc loadable into RAM at boot as well as 3rd party software. Or 3rd party software could be licensed to Ms (as per Apple) and the CMOS chip containing the OS would be updated by a special Ms program.

Maybe this might upset people who like to tinker and customise systems -- perhaps Ms should also offer a "Developers edition" which would be the traditional OS -- give it away free but with no support other than urgent security fixes -- rather like IBM/Redhat does with RHEL Enterprise server -- you can get it free as an individual but for support "You are on your own".

@AK6DN

Agree on linux -- on my main laptop I run Arch Linux with KDE desktop and W11 as a VM under KVM/QEMU.

Note you CAN run W11 on older systems easily enough.
1) create a VM under KVM/QEMU. Use an external device for the VM's hard disk. GUI available if you install virt-manager. Ensure for TPM packages swtpm and swtpm-tools (or whatever it's called in your distro). This is the IBM TPM emulator and it works for Windows VM's.
2) ensure package for secure boot for VM installed -- usually called something like OVMF - although might be installed automatically when you install KVM/QEMU.
3) in the virtual machine set the TPM to emulated -->hypervisor default -->CRB or TIS 2.0 -- either will do
4) set the cpu to hypervisor default (uncheck the cpu -> use host configuration)
5) boot the vm with the windows iso install -- get one from UUPDUMP for the version you want.
6) boot ->repair system>command prompt
7) diskpart
8) create a small efi partition on the virtual disk and a windows standard ntfs partition.
9) use dism /Apply-Image to install windows.
10) use bcdboot to install the windows boot loader to the main windows partition.
11) after installing the VM boot it up and install some sort of disk cloning software -- macrium free will still work currently.
12) add your actual target disk for your Windows installation - but add as a PHYSICAL hard disk not as a Virtual hard disk

e.g add to the xml file in devices : (change /dev/sdc to what's approp[riate for your machine)

<disk type="block" device="disk">
<driver name="qemu" type="raw"/>
<source dev="/dev/sdc"/>
<target dev="vdb" bus="virtio"/>
</disk>

13) clone to this disk
14) power off and boot the windows disk
15) update drivers -- you'll need video / audio etc etc. Te TPM from the VM is fine as it's designed to run on Windows -

16) enjoy !!!

17) You don't need to - because this won't be a "daily use VM" but to get proper Video / mouse / audio etc you can install the virtio-tools for windows on the VM -- iso available from the fedora site - drivers are signed on latest iso so no probs with Windows install.

19) to update the target W11 after install - if it fails on unsupported hardware simply clone back to the VM, update and clone back again.

For the dism and bcdboot windows commands there's plenty of examples on the Forum.

@Sammy888

KDE desktop on Arch Linux -- just as easy to use as Windows.



Modern Linux distros have GUI's - some of which are almost more Windows than Windows -- KDE is a desktop that most windows users would have absolutely no problems in using. Linux Mint is another "Very Windows like" system too. Just download a live distro and try it out - it boots from a USB drive and won't mess your installed system - it doesn't even keep changes you make to the system while using it - everything is done in RAM and these are all discarded at shutdown.

Cheers
jimbo

AK6DN said:

You obviously haven't seen a Linux system in the last 20 years or so. A graphical interface, just like Windows is the norm these days.
Yes, there still are terminal windows to do commands in Linux. Just like there is CommandWindow and PowerShell in windows, too.
But I can use a Linux system all day without ever launching a command shell terminal window.
Browsers (Firefox), email (Thunderbird), spreadsheets/word docs/presentations (LibreOffice) all work the same on Linux as they do on Windows.

Click to expand...

For anybody who needs a computer for serious work (or serious gaming), Linux is useless.

So what if you use inferior tools like Libreoffice?

Linux will never take off as a serious desktop OS until it can natively run major mainstream Windows programs.

Anyway, Linux does not really exist ‐ it is just a generic name covering dozens of different sub versions.

In summary, use Linux - yawnnnnnnnn!

cereberus said:

For anybody who needs a computer for serious work (or serious gaming), Linux is useless.

So what if you use inferior tools like Libreoffice?

Linux will never take off as a serious desktop OS until it can natively run major mainstream Windows programs.

Anyway, Linux does not really exist ‐ it is just a generic name covering dozens of different sub versions.

In summary, use Linux - yawnnnnnnnn!

Click to expand...

We've been there before and agree for most things

I was just giving a user who is quite comfortable with Linux in how to get a machine he thought was limited to W10 because of hardware limitations working to run W11 even on the latest insider builds.

This wasn't intended to be a Windows vs Linux type of thing - both have their specific user points. I think the main point of this thread is that even highly specialised high end gaming rigs bought today might not be sufficient for W12 (if and when it appears under that name).

Cheers
jimbo

Sammy888 said:

Here is the latest shocker

Click to expand...

It is entirely speculative.
They do not know any more about Windows 12 than my dog does.


Denis

Hi,
Yeah it would be funny if MS said only Intel voodoo e-cores need apply